Would you PTS?

[ladyt25]

Horrid situation. I don't know the story or how old this horse is. What's the reason for her suffering with laminitis? I assume it is a metabolic condition/her not being able to control insulin levels or something?? I know little about the causes of laminitis, other than the usual grass related or traumatic so I don't know what possible treatments there are to control it. However, I do not think keeping a horse in a stable 24/7 or it having to be restricted to sand school turnout for the rest of its life is a life to be honest.

My 27 yo pony who I have had for 19 years has started to show his age over the last 12 months and has been suffering form some rather unexplained mobility issues with his hindquarters. vet has now guessed at arthritis in his spine/sacroiliac area although a couple of months ago same vet said he didn't think he had arthritis. I have also had him blood tested as suspected he may also have cushings - turns out he does. I know a side effect of this can be laminitis amongst other things and I have said if it comes to the stage he has to have any prolonged box rest then I would have to call it a day. He can not live like that, he doesn't live like that. He's herd leader and, although happy enough stabled for the odd evening or so, he would be miserable if for an extended period.

We all know our own horses and I guess we have to make decisions based on how they cope but I still think long terms restrictions are no life for a horse.

 

[5bs]

My friends horse was PTS on Tuesday I was there they do not have a clue. The vet said it is no life for a horse that needed to be butted to get through the day, he said let them go while they look good not until waiting for it to become urgent.

I had my horse PTS six weeks ago and I had to go and pay the hunt the cheque, it was the same day my friends horse had been PTS he said to me what was wrong with the horse, and I said just slowly falling apart and he said " he had never seen such a bad liver he couldn't feed it to the pups" she had had the last two years on Gastrogard, ommeprazole and danillon on and off, I should think she felt dreadful and my friend or the vets hadn't even considered anything like that could be wrong.

The huntsman had a long chat with me and is a firm believer when they need bute to be a field ornament it really is time to call it a day, I have had very bad luck of having four PTS in under five years I have a vet that always said it as it was, and he said get on and do it now otherwise you don't notice them getting worse and it gets harder and harder.

 

[blitznbobs]

In a heartbeat - you owe it to them to make the decision... And you know it's the right one

 

[doriangrey]

You are a lovely person on here Wagtail. I've never, ever had to make this decision .. when I do I hope I can be as thoughtful and unselfish. God bless, you know what you have to do.

 

[AmyMay]

I would put the horse down.

 

[Feival]

My friends 5yo was PTS this week because of a rotated peadel bone, caused by laminitis, He'd been on box rest for 7 weeks due to another issue in his other hind leg. He did not have Lami before box rest as was under weight due to an ongoing kidney infection. So just because they're on box rest does not mean Laminitis is kept at bay!!

 

[PorkChop]

I had a mare in a similar situation a few years ago and I decided to PTS.

Horrible decision, but I am sure you will do the right thing for you both x

 

[MrsMozart]

So very sorry hunny.

I wouldn't keep the horse going. I'd start to worry about sand colic if the only turnout was a sand school, amongst all the other issues. As others have said, it's no life for a horse.

 

[zigzag]

I would PTS, a horse is supposed to eat 18 hours a day and be with firends, to be kept in a sand school and given limited food is no life, so sorry for you, big hugs xx

 

[hnmisty]

As much as it would break my heart I couldn't keep a horse going if they couldn't be a horse any more!

This. If they can't even have a fair quality of life (drug free) or have to be kept on such an alien lifestyle, then I would PTS. It's a difficult decision, I know. But I don't believe in keeping them dosed up on drugs just so we don't have to say goodbye so soon.

 

[Hippona]

If you've considered it ....then in your heart you know its the right decision, although not the easiest for you. No one could have done any more than you, now it's time to do the final best thing for your mare.
Be strong xxx

 

[The_snoopster]

So sorry to hear your news, one of my oldies is struggling too badly this year with lami. Even the pracsend was not holding it at bay with a controlled diet, he is in a tiny paddock of dust at the moment with soaked hay like yours. Luckily my mare stands by him alot and keeps him company, and because he is a shettie does not need a big paddock anyway.
The vet as been quite a bit this year and we chatted and both agreed if he gets it again this summer I will PTS, as I cannot keep him in 24/7 like an hamster in a cage. Its a hard choice and I really feel for you, hugs to you and your girl x

 

[Alphamare]

Yes I would. For the horse. But it's never easy to do

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yes, I would. It's a very difficult decision to make in some ways but on the other hand it is easy, if you are guided by the horse's quality of life. It's no life for a horse in a sand school imo.
You have done as much as any-one possibly could and it is heart-breaking to pts a relatively young horse, I know, I've done it with 2x 11 yr olds and a 6 yr old. But it really does sound as if it's time now before the bad weather sets in, or the next flush of grass in September sets her off again.
I'm so sorry.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Yes I would, our lami with the 15degree rotation would not cope on box rest again, it would do his mind in. Sod or as long as he is sound he is here but as soon as a hint of the lami returns and we have to box rest then he will be PTS as I know that he just wouldn't cope and he would not be the horse we I know and love.

Xxxxxx

 

[Holly Hocks]

WT - I think you know the answer or you wouldn't be asking the question. You're fortunate to have the sand paddock and to have been able to keep her for so long. Many people would have called it a day long ago. But a life sentence in a sand paddock? It's no life really for a horse. xx

 

[FionaM12]

I have nothing to add except to offer my condolences. You know your horse and I'm sure you'll do the right thing, at the right time. Hugs.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Going on your description I think I would put to sleep.

Living in a turnout area short term would be ok but not long term.

 

[Floofball]

Yes - very easy to say, unbelievably hard to do, especially when you have tried everything. Heartbreaking situation WT, so sorry

 

[Goldenstar]

I have not read all the posts .
My horse of a lifetime foundered in her twenties she was already on a very restricted diet and the thought of having to restrict grazing more filled me with horror the vet said this will be cushings related I did not even bother to test her I had the weekend with hEr and we PTS at home on the Monday
I missed her like mad but her whole life had been about restricted food when she was competeing and she was such an athlete I did not want to see her with reduced mobility and have to box rest and a curtailed life after she had had a great life and a good retirement up to that point .

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks, everyone. I have realised what sparks it of is when we have had a spell of rain (which has been rather often). I had taken her off the danilon as well as she had come right again but she was really bad yesterday. After one danilon and a return to the sand she trotted over to me wickering and looked much brighter. Her pulse was no longer racing. She had been going out on the grass in a grazing muzzle for 8 hours a day and then coming into the sand for 16 hours with another lami prone horse. I know her days are numbered, and I will do the right thing by her, but I am going to try one last thing and that is put her back on the Marksway haylage and soak that. It is what got her better before. I will give her a short time out with her muzzle in the paddock on days when there has not been rain in the 24 hours before and gradually build it up to see what level she can tolerate. If she cannot tolerate daily turnout (with some days 24/7 in the sand if the grass is flushing because of rain) without danilon then I will PTS. I won't keep her 24/7 in the sand, or box rest as that is no life for her even though she has company for 2/3rds of it. So I guess the next few days will give me my answer. Even if she can be made comfortable on the new regime, I know it is only short term as I think she is gradually getting worse.

To answer a few questions:

I feed hay in hay hutches so not directly off the floor, so hopefully should not get sand colic.

She does have Cushings, but has been recently blood tested and her levels are well within the normal range (controlled by prascend)

She is nineteen.

 

[touchstone]

What a horrible time for you Wagtail, metaboic laminitis is certainly an awful thing.

My mare is similar (native, so prone anyway, 20 yrs old and showing cushings signs.) Prascend is probably not an option due to finances and I manage it by feeding high fibre horsehage, fast fibre, salt, magnesium and chaste-tree berry. One of the best things though has been setting up a track with electric fencing around the perimeter of the field. There is very little grass, and it is well grazed by sheep too, but she still gets plenty of movement which helps to keep her healthy (she's also barefoot.) I do think that this has been crucial to keeping her sound and improving quality of life and would recommend giving a track system a go if it is at all possible.

Once my mare reaches the stage where quality of life is too compromised, then I will make that final decision, but at the moment she remains sound and happy.

 

[pines of rome]

Could she not stay on a daily danilon, it makes all the difference to my boy and he is only thirteen!
I do think the grass this year is playing havoc with them, had to have mine in for a few days as he had lami symptons, but he was fine on it last year!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Hi Wagtail - sorry about your mare, I have read a lot of your posts about her and I think your instinct will tell you if or when the time is right to PTS for both your sakes. This suggestion may seem a bit left field but my sister has a Connie that she has brought back from the brink of death from Lami at least twice in the last 10 years and who has EMS. She is based in the USA where Lyme's disease is rife and one of the triggers has been contracting Lyme's. Recently she has become footsore again and has tested positive again. I know it isn't as prevalent here but is becoming more so. Also another horse on the same yard with unexplained lameness issues has also tested positive. Just a thought.

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/l.html

Lyme disease (borreliosis)

Lyme disease is present in many regions of the UK, Europe and North America. It is caused by infection with a tick-borne spirochete bacterium, Borellia burgdorferi, and commonly carried by deer ticks (Ixodes sp.). Clinical signs in horses include:

mild fever - muscle soreness - lethargy - unexplained lameness that may move from leg to leg - stiffness - joint swelling - reluctance to work/poor performance - laminitis (may be severe) - weight loss - uveitis - depressed attitude - behavioural changes and irritability - neurological problems e.g. ataxia, hypersensitivity.

Horses with Lyme disease often show symptoms in the autumn. Consider Lyme for horses that are "just not right", with unexplained laminitis or lameness, attitude changes, considered to have an unexplained virus, with or without a temperature.

 

[Nudibranch]

I'm going to go against the majority and say I don't think you should rush into it. Normally I wouldn't hesitate to pts if I had doubts but having been the owner of a Cushings veteran until just before last Christmas I know that they can have a good quality of life. Mine had restricted turnout but could groom and make contact with the others over the fence. She had constant access to soaked hay and oat straw - would you be able to pad yours out with straw for something to munch on? Can you take her out in hand if booted? That also adds some interest. You know your horse and you know her normal behaviour. The minute that changes then think again; mine told me the night of 30th November. For some reason I did a late check at about 11.30, I wouldn't usually but when I went out she just seemed tired all of a sudden. The spark had gone. She was pts next morning, we think it had been organ failure but until that last night she was happy.

Sand turnout, tbh, is a better life than some horses get. I recall recently there was a thread about a girl who kept her horse in 23 hours a day and a lot of people were very quick to defend, saying each to their own. Personally I think your routine is way beyond this in terms of life quality so I don't think it's necessarily fair to say she can't be a horse.

You know your horse and you will know when she is ready. And I don't mean when it's too late, I mean when it's time. You have my total sympathy because it's a horrible position to be in.

 

[bensababy]

I was in exactly the same situation last year, was the hardest decision I made but I knew I couldn't keep putting him through it, it wasn't much of a life for him in the end. It isn't a easy one to make but I'm sure you will make the right decision for her. I probably regret in hindsight not doing it sooner. All the best x

 

[Persephone]

Wagtail, I did PTS for exactly those same reasons.

 

[Spring Feather]

I also wouldn't be rushing into it. Providing the horse is painfree and content to live in the environment you have found which helps then I'd keep going for a little while longer. I am set up for it though, all of my big fields have dust corrals/paddocks attached to them so if it were my horse it would still be able to interact with many other horses and my corrals/paddocks are big enough for the horse to still enjoy running around and playing with others. I don't know exactly your set-up but I think you are only on around 8 acres so I'm not sure if you'd be able to make a permanent dust paddock/corral for your horse?

Even though I have tonnes of grazing on my farm, I still feed hay all year round so for me it wouldn't be a problem at all to continue doing this for a horse who required a bit more care.

I think you are being sensible however, you know your horse, you know what she can deal with and you know what you're capable of. I don't think there is a blank right or wrong decision here, you will choose what's right for both you and her and whatever you choose to do will be 'right'.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks for all the lovely and helpful replies. I know it is grasping at straws by I am going to ask the vet about getting her tested for Lymes disease, so thanks for that suggestion. SF I don't have the land you do, but I have a dedicated sand turnout that is separate to the arena and which is next to the top paddock where my gelding is, so she is never completely alone. She also has the other gelding who shares the sand turnout with her for 16 hours of the day. Mind you, she is a right bossy boots with him and gives him quite a few bites. She is best out with a boss horse like my gelding really as then she is all sweetness and light, but she is a little 'Hitler' with those that she is boss of. Though really sweet and cuddly with humans.

I have put her back in her boots which she can walk really comfortably in over all terrain. I will put her out in the paddock with my lad tomorrow morning, but obviously in her mask. I don't think she has much time left, TBF. But I want to give her as much freedom a possible whilst she is comfortable. As I said before, I am not prepared to box rest her to prolong her life. It is only worth living if she has some sort of quality of life. She certainly isn't giving up right now. I had visitors today and she stole the show grabbing all the attention she could. She is still so full of character.

 

[Alec Swan]

I've read all of the kind and thoughtful replies, and on balance, I'd come down in the camp of those who wouldn't continue, BUT, it's your horse and it's your decision. The problem doesn't arise when we have an emergency, but it does arise when we actually have a choice. Life's beastly sometimes, and you have my sympathy.

Alec.