Would you PTS?

I really hoped this was not what I thought it was going to be..........

I faced exactly your situation 4 years ago but with a slightly older pony. She seemed bright and comfortable though. I talked through with my lovely vet my options and told him not to let me wait too long. He told me that I would know when the time was right. I decided to give her the summer........... beginning of June 09 she had a bad attack (despite pergolide) and pedal bone rotated too much although I knew before xray............her eyes just told me she had enough. I was thankful the decision was taken from me.

Hugs to you Wagtail. I would not advise you either way because only you know your horse and only you see her daily and know the answer. You will always have our support xxx
 
Oh you poor thing, I am so sorry the time has come. But every story has an ending, and this sounds like the end of your beloved horse's story - it's not the worst it could be 'though, because you'll make sure that it is right.
 
If you a good sensitive owner and thinking about your animal and not about your feelings, you must know what the answer will be. I have had to go through this several times and put the horse first and my feelings second, gone and stood in the corner of the stable and balled my eyes out, you have to put your horse first and foremost.
 
Having been in this situation myself with a mare we'd had for 20 yrs. we had her PTS as she had no quality of life, on a constant diet, limited turn out and possibly in constant pain.
At the end of the day if not careful we end up keeping them alive for ourselves, and don't do what's best for the horse.
 
Queenbee said:
Wt... Am so sorry to hear you and you're girl are going through it. If it were mine, I'd be making the decision to PTS, even to the point where the sun is going to be shining next week, so if she is currently sound, I'd be giving her a week that I know she can enjoy with the sun on her back and setting the date with the vet. Keeping in a box on rest, would be a no for me, and sand wise... I'd be far too worried about sand colic, if lami was manageable, it would be a different thing, but since its such a constant battle, I don't think I could let it go on. Lots of (((hugs))) xxx
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Wagtail, we are in EXACTLY this same situation as you with our laminitic pony. We have tried for a long time to keep the fine balance but it has not got any better. Despite all the meds we could still see when she is uncomfortable or miserable because she can see her friends in the field but she couldn't join them. Our vet came last week and we agreed that she comes back to PTS this week, so she can have a time on bute and eat the grass and our little girl could have time to say goodbye.

It is so hard to make the decision, but we knew it would come one day
 
Nearly had to make this decision with one of mine. Thankfully she got better and is kept on a bare paddock with soaked hay, but if it had come to box rest long term I was going to call it a day. Mine is retired and owes me nothing and I am looking at quality of life over quantity these days.

I hope I haven't sounded too brutal and wish you all the best.
 
Horses don't look to the future, they look to wander, to eat what they choose, to socialise and to run free when they want. If these are not options for your horse and you have tried everything to make them so then there is no more you can do and as a responsible owner you will know you have done your best by them up to and including the end. Not an easy decision but always as they say, better a day too early than a day too late (for which you will never forgive yourself). Pick a sunny day in the pasture and remember them as they look relaxed and happy, and say goodbye.
 
Well she is out in the field again today, in her boots with thick Styrofoam pads. She is on half a danilon twice a day and looks very comfortable. I know that without the boots and the danilon she would be very sore. But for her it is about quality life, not quantity. If it gets to the point where she cannot go out in the paddock at least four times a week, then I will call it a day.

For those who say that it is not about my feelings, but the horse, I totally agree. I don't give a toss about me. I just want to get it right for her, and while she is pottering around the field with my lad, she is still enjoying life. I guess it may not be for long, but will take it a day at a time.
 
I think what you are doing atm is the right thing to do and what I would do in your shoes!
I have lost two to lami, the first one lived virtually in his box for a year and as he was young I really tried to get him right,, but we could not! I would not do this again!
When my old TB who already had cushings, then got laminitis in all four feet, I decided as he was nearly 23 I was not going to let him have a miserable life, so I had him pts, it was the hardest thing I have ever done and broke my heart, but I think it was the right thing to do!
Enjoy your time with your girl now, you will know when she has had enough! Hugs x
 
If it is just the grass that is causing her laminitis, and you can keep her laminitis free in the sand paddock, then that is what I would do....permanently if necessary. :)
 
I may have missed if you've tested for Cushings, but actually from your post above, she sounds like Henry. Periods of rain followed by sun are a nightmare for me and whenever people say 'we need this rain for grass growth', I have to fight the urge to throttle them! Henry has EMS and is managed by an almost bare paddock with another pony the same size. She's the same breed and size and whilst he's on the lean side of good, she's a fatty on air. They're fine when the weather is dry or wet, but this last week I've muzzled during the day and left them with soaked haylage, which they can eat through the muzzle, so it keeps them going. Muzzles come off in the evening, after the sun has left their paddock. They're both fed brewer's yeast and linseed and not much else. A salt lick is in the paddock (under the shelter, so it doesn't wash away).

The paddock is probably 1/3 to 1/2 of an acre, so enough that they can have a gallop (they're 12hh). I enrich it by collecting cleavers, bits of hawthorn, fallen ash twigs, prunings from fruit trees. Rather than give them these I leave them in random spots, so they find them as they meander around the paddock. Once we get to October/November, the paddock will be opened right up and they'll have over an acre until Feb, when I start to shrink it again.

I think of EMS as like managing a diabetic. Henry is ridden as often as time allows in the Spring and Summer and I reduce sugar as much as is humanly possible, although hay for him needs soaking due to the dust, more than sugar, as it tends to be fresh grass that is the issue. Although he's had the warning signs more times than I can shake a stick at, it's never progressed (I've muzzled and this has been enough, combined with the soaked haylage). His warning signs are puffy fetlocks and slightly spongy coronet bands. If I can FEEL a pulse, it's a problem, as his is very hard to feel, when normal. So, I act when I feel sponginess and he's been lami free since 2009.

That said, if you can't manage the setup I describe, you know your pony best. Mine still gets out and about, so has quality of life. I might feel differently if he was in the paddock for 24 hours and on his own. Difficult one and I'm sorry you're in this situation.
 
I have a 19yo mare. She got lami as a 6yo and we have battled ever since. She was retired as a 8yo due to fracture. Every year I wished I had the guts to put her down. She was miserable in her muzzle, miserable in a diet paddock, couldnt be ridden for exercise, only allowed freedom for 4 months of winter, no life for a horse. I often wished she'd just keel over and save me making the decision.

Finally this year I got it right! She lives out 24/7 on a 500m track (i'm planning on increasing this to at least 1km next year) minimal grass but she can browse in the hedge, gets hay/oaten straw haynets (she would get fat on hay alone) she is constantly on the move. I have other fatties that benefit from a similar regime so she is in a herd environment. She is fit (relatively) healthy, happy and sound all summer for the first time in over a decade. The muzzles are banished. Rather than wishing she keeled over, I hope she lives well into her 30's to enjoy her new found freedom. She looks younger now than she did as a 10yo.

If you can try to manage your horse in a similar way, absolutely try it. Its amazing to see the difference.
If not then I agree, box rest, very restricted turnout is unfair. Pts would be a better option. I would have pts 10 years ago if I was brave enough.

Thank god someone mentioned paddock paradise to me and i gave it a go. Setting up a track system is easier than it sounds. I set it up with temporary electric fencing posts and tape. I did this in one day. Gradually I replaced some of the temporary posts with wooden ones around corners etc so I could maintain tension in the tape. I am gradually adding wheelbarrows of stone to the muddy parts. It is a work in progress. She currently has front shoes on, but I'm hoping to eventually remove those when I get the track just right.
 
_HP_ said:
If it is just the grass that is causing her laminitis, and you can keep her laminitis free in the sand paddock, then that is what I would do....permanently if necessary. :)
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I'm sorry to say that I don't agree with this. As I have just said in another post about this subject, for me it is all about quality of life. Having seen a pony kept like this and to see them surrounded by horses who are in a field of grass, and for the pony to be sticking its head through the fencing to grab any little blade of grass it can see, even though it has hay nets hanging in the sand paddock, to me this is not a good quality of life. Im afraid if it was me I would also be calling it a day as someone has previously advised on here. I appreciate it is not an easy decision to make but I trust you will do whats right by your pony x
 
Looking at my gorgeous girl the past two days, I am so pleased I didn't have her PTS when I first started this thread. She has spent the last two days in the paddock with my boy, wearing her boots and grazing muzzle. She is really spritely and happy. Eyes are bright, coat gleaming and she is marching around having a great time. We haven't had any rain for a few days, and so I think that has made a big difference. I now know she must not go out for a couple of days after it's rained. She can spend those days in the sand and the others out with my boy. She has company 24/7 at the moment as she is with my boy for 8 hours and the other lami prone horse for 16 hours. When she's in the sand, she still has company 16 hours a day and is next to my boy's paddock for the other 8 hours.

So at the moment I can say hand on heart, she is having a good quality of life when she can go out in the paddock, and on the other days when she has to stay in, it is less good, but not poor as she has company most of the time, has space to run about, and is fed little and often so not stood with nothing for hours. At the moment, I know I am doing the right thing by her.

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. They have comforted me in the fact that when I need to make THAT decision, it will be the right one. The time is not right at the moment. When I mentioned it to the owner of the other lami horse, that I had been seriously considering it, she was totally shocked. She said how bright, fit and happy she always looked and what a fab life she has here. So that is also nice to know from someone who sees her often in the flesh.
 
I am definitely going to give paddock paradise a go. My problem is the water troughs. If I put a track around the edge, the troughs will not be reachable by the horses in the centre paddocks. I need to have a good think how to best do it.
 
Could you could stop the track at either side of the trough, allowing the other horses access and have a large container for your mare? My track isn't continuous around the field to keep her away from the fence besides the public footpath where passers by feed her and it still works very well, she gallops around it every evening for her feed.
 
I think its more now about finding a management that works for her and you rather than considering PTS, she looks amazing so that speaks for itself. Every horse it different when it comes to managing lami as there are so many factors that can bring it on.

Dont feel gulity if she has to stay in a few days whilst the grass is rich, you are doing the right thing. I did it with mine but made sure on those days he had plenty of well soaked hay, went on the walker morning and night and then i made sure he had a nice groom/bath and a ride in the evening. I have to say, he wasnt really that bothered as he was so greedy and his field had very little grass anyway. A good mix of management and exercise kept him lami free and he was much happier with his new slim line figure!
 
touchstone said:
Could you could stop the track at either side of the trough, allowing the other horses access and have a large container for your mare? My track isn't continuous around the field to keep her away from the fence besides the public footpath where passers by feed her and it still works very well, she gallops around it every evening for her feed.
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Good idea, thank you!

BlackVelvet said:
I think its more now about finding a management that works for her and you rather than considering PTS, she looks amazing so that speaks for itself. Every horse it different when it comes to managing lami as there are so many factors that can bring it on.

Dont feel gulity if she has to stay in a few days whilst the grass is rich, you are doing the right thing. I did it with mine but made sure on those days he had plenty of well soaked hay, went on the walker morning and night and then i made sure he had a nice groom/bath and a ride in the evening. I have to say, he wasnt really that bothered as he was so greedy and his field had very little grass anyway. A good mix of management and exercise kept him lami free and he was much happier with his new slim line figure!
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Sounds like a real character!

My girl is still very comfortable today and full of mischief. I cannot believe how close I was to putting her to sleep at the weekend. I guess it was because she came in with raging pulses after being very comfortable just the day before and I felt it was all out of control. Looking at her right now, it is unthinkable.

However, she is still on half a danilon twice daily. Not a large dose though for a 15.3hh warmblood. I will reduce this to half once daily as of tomorrow and see how she goes.
 
So pleased that she is happier again today, when I started reading this thread was fearing the worst. Only you know your mare and when the time does come trust me you will know she will tell you, but until that time enjoy your time together. She very lucky to have you looking out for her. Hope she continues to improve .
 
You really know the answer to this.... It is not fair just to keep horse alive so you don't have to cause yourself pain. Sorry but this horse needs to be let go...IF you love someone let them go.
 
hihosilver said:
You really know the answer to this.... It is not fair just to keep horse alive so you don't have to cause yourself pain. Sorry but this horse needs to be let go...IF you love someone let them go.
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Have you read the whole thread?

The last thing on my mind is MY pain. I want to get it right for HER.

The reason I made it clear how much I loved her and how much I didn't want to PTS is because in some threads it is clear that the person is looking for people to tell them to PTS to ease their guilt. This becomes apparent when replies are received giving possible alternative solutions which are ignored. This is not one of those threads and I wanted to make it clear that it wasn't.

If my girl was still suffering like she was when I started this thread, then she would be dead by now. But she's not. She is happy trotting around the field with my other horse.

If my girl had to be put on box rest in order to prolong her life, again, she would not be here. I don't agree with long term box rest unless the prognosis is excellent for a good and permanent recovery.
 
I am glad to hear she is feeling better, I too would explore every possible avenue of giving my horse a reasonable quality of life before calling time, and if you have the added bonus of being there all the time then you can monitor the situation even more closely and take remedial steps when needed.

My boy was laminitic and he spent probably the last four years of his life having two hours turnout a day on what I call a 'proper' field, the rest of the time he was in his bare paddock which had a massive shelter in it with hay (he never lived in). I knew he was content, he used to get a bit agitated sometimes when he wanted to be let out in the main field, but I very rarely had a prolem getting him back in again in the evening. Luckily he was still rideable, but had he not have been, I would have taken him out in hand.

Where there is a will there is a way, it's when the way is no longer satisfactory that you know what to do. Wishing you all the best.
 
smanf said:
I am glad to hear she is feeling better, I too would explore every possible avenue of giving my horse a reasonable quality of life before calling time, and if you have the added bonus of being there all the time then you can monitor the situation even more closely and take remedial steps when needed.

My boy was laminitic and he spent probably the last four years of his life having two hours turnout a day on what I call a 'proper' field, the rest of the time he was in his bare paddock which had a massive shelter in it with hay (he never lived in). I knew he was content, he used to get a bit agitated sometimes when he wanted to be let out in the main field, but I very rarely had a prolem getting him back in again in the evening. Luckily he was still rideable, but had he not have been, I would have taken him out in hand.

Where there is a will there is a way, it's when the way is no longer satisfactory that you know what to do. Wishing you all the best.
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Thanks. She is raring to go out in the morning, but equally raring to come back into the sand in the evening. She just loves her routine. At night, I give her pal some haylage and then just open the gate and she trots out and into the sand turnout by herself. She then trots back to me so I can remove her muzzle!
 
Wagtail said:
. She is happy trotting around the field with my other horse.QUOTE]

I think OP this is your mare telling you that, for now, she's OK and happy to be alive.

She will let you know if that changes, don't worry, you'll know the time, she'll tell you.

My old boy had lammi, so I feel your pain/know what you're going through.
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It is always difficult when an animal has an ongoing serious illness to decide when enough is enough. Only the people who are with the animal and can see it and its behaviour are in a position to make the decision. Unfortunately sometimes we look back later and think 'that went on too long', sometimes we think 'I got that right'.

All the best to you and your horse OP.
 
From what you are saying Wagtail, it sounds like your girl is not ready to go yet, all the time she is happy I would enjoy having her and if she has to have some danilon to be comfy then so what! Even my vet can,t see some peoples big hang up about putting there horses on this to give them quality of life!
But I agree with you that if it came down to her living in her box, then that would be the time to call it a day! I am glad she is doing ok atm!:)
 
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