Would you report someone not declaring their earnings?

FionaM12 said:
If others want to report their friends and neighbours, that's up to them too. But I wouldn't sleep at night.
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TBH - I dont think that some of these criminals have trouble sleeping.

There is a big difference between someone who is just getting by and some fat cat driving around in some massive Merc or someone who is obviously in a situation where footing a tax bill would not be an issue.

My honest opinion is that you should contribute something if you are earning.... even if its just a few quid.... Perhaps the taxation system is unfair but there is help for low earners....
 
SusieT said:
The tax system allows for those who dont earn much to apy much less back to the state to allow for the 'low earning' being moaned about.
I personally think it is more unfair people are giving away 50% of their earnings -thats 6 months of the year you work for free-and maybe that wouldn't be necessary if everyone paid their dues
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Who gives away 50% of their earnings? I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone has an amount they can earn before tax, then another amount on the basic rate, etc up to the highest rate. Even the highest rate tax payers only pay that on the top end bit of their income. Not 50% of the whole surely?
 
FionaM12 said:
Who gives away 50% of their earnings? I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone has an amount they can earn before tax, then another amount on the basic rate, etc up to the highest rate. Even the highest rate tax payers only pay that on the top end bit of their income. Not 50% of the whole surely?
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Yes that's the way it works.
 
FionaM12 said:
If others want to report their friends and neighbours, that's up to them too. But I wouldn't sleep at night.
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Wi'll i in no way condone benafit cheating, i hated the advert that asked people to report those they knew were doing this.
Its no wonder the hate and suspision that goes on in a lot of streets in this country as it is, without the goverment trying to pit neighbour against neighbour.
And you can bet your last pound that many of those that do report their neighbours, wont stand up and have the courage of their convictions and say they did it!

As an aside, what happened to the op, not added much else to the thread, just baited the trap and dissapeared?
 
'Wi'll i in no way condone benafit cheating, i hated the advert that asked people to report those they knew were doing this.
Its no wonder the hate and suspision that goes on in a lot of streets in this country as it is, without the goverment trying to pit neighbour against neighbour.
And you can bet your last pound that many of those that do report their neighbours, wont stand up and have the courage of their convictions and say they did it!'

Why? It only creates bad feelings if the criminals get upset that they cant keep more of their earnings that neighbour A who is in the same job but abides by the law. It is the sort of thing that only those who live and work alongside peopl might notice.
As for standing up-people will do truely nasty things to anyone who 'wrongs' them by pointing out that they are nt abiding by the law. Be that bullying, poisoning their cat, bashing in their cars windows, physical intimidation or full on physical attack. Why exactly should someone doing the right thing be penalised like that?
(oh-but its ok if its someone earning mroe than x because obviously their life is so good they deserve to be 'done'?? Not in my book-amount earned is not relevant.)
 
SusieT said:
Why? It only creates bad feelings if the criminals get upset that they cant keep more of their earnings that neighbour A who is in the same job but abides by the law. It is the sort of thing that only those who live and work alongside peopl might notice.
As for standing up-people will do truely nasty things to anyone who 'wrongs' them by pointing out that they are nt abiding by the law. Be that bullying, poisoning their cat, bashing in their cars windows, physical intimidation or full on physical attack. Why exactly should someone doing the right thing be penalised like that?
(oh-but its ok if its someone earning mroe than x because obviously their life is so good they deserve to be 'done'?? Not in my book-amount earned is not relevant.)
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sorry, I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say.
 
SusieT said:
'Wi'll i in no way condone benafit cheating, i hated the advert that asked people to report those they knew were doing this.
Its no wonder the hate and suspision that goes on in a lot of streets in this country as it is, without the goverment trying to pit neighbour against neighbour.
And you can bet your last pound that many of those that do report their neighbours, wont stand up and have the courage of their convictions and say they did it!'

Why? It only creates bad feelings if the criminals get upset that they cant keep more of their earnings that neighbour A who is in the same job but abides by the law. It is the sort of thing that only those who live and work alongside peopl might notice.
As for standing up-people will do truely nasty things to anyone who 'wrongs' them by pointing out that they are nt abiding by the law. Be that bullying, poisoning their cat, bashing in their cars windows, physical intimidation or full on physical attack. Why exactly should someone doing the right thing be penalised like that?
(oh-but its ok if its someone earning mroe than x because obviously their life is so good they deserve to be 'done'?? Not in my book-amount earned is not relevant.)
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The amount earned is relevant, if it is an extra tenner a week that allows the person to have electricity for that week, instead of sitting in the dark with no heating, as apposed to an extra, say £200, i think there is a big diference, nothing in life is black and white, is it.
 
There are systems in place to help people who are on low incomes-there would be more money to help those who are genuinely in need if the system was not abused.
I have been in a situation where money was not forthcoming-I did not suddenly think, oh, I will just go and steal some money from the person across the street because they earn more than me so they must be able to give me some-which is essentially what happens when you tax dodge. Buyt it doesn't seem so bad when its 'the government' your defrauding does it?
The majority of these freelancegrooms that I have met doing the job it because they enjoy the lifestyle-they could get another job earning money (a lot do-e.g work in a shop of an evening) to pay for that electric.

Just because somebody else is avoiding tax, doesn't mean that you should.Then again I've never been one happy to let someone else pay for my lifestyle. If you cannot afford the electricity and you are working on minimum wage, you are doing something wrong.
 
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SusieT said:
If you cannot afford the electricity and you are working on minimum wage, you are doing something wrong.
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Doing what wrong excactly.
There are plenty of people on minimum wage for lots of different reasons, health, ability, age etc, etc.
Also being in a dead end job on minimum wage, isnt always a life style choice, and retraining for a new job isnt an option for a lot of people.
 
Living outside your means.
40hr week at min wage-is what, just over 10K a year? The tax calculator says this leaves you with net pay about £9,570.36.

So, house rent, say at a basic level, a 2 bed house with you as the only conributor 350 a month. 4200.
Electricity and gas-assuming yuoa re out working at least 9 til 5-depending on area etc-maybe 50-60 so 600.
Food for one person-20 a week-1040
Travel-bus for a year maybe £600, less if you have a bike and use it.
-Cars probably talking 1.5K to run a basic model for the year?

So that covers house, heating, electrivity, food. Essentials. £6440 to 7340. With 2-3Kleft over for emergencies, saving, extras unseen, things I've forgotten. That's with paying tax. Doesn't take into account dependants, yes you wouldn't be able to support a family on that. But one person? Definitely.No need to dodge tax.
 
You don't have to have insurance to file your earnings

I receive cash for some of the work I do - where most people assume that if you receive cash you pocket it and don't declare it most peole do - including myself.

They are being silly not having insurance though as it will safeguard their future. Really depends how much they earn annually as wether they feel they need to.
 
I reported someone once - and ex flatmate who was claiming both unemployment and sickness benifit - here it is called ACC and a totally different department. He also had done a runner leaving me with over a thousand dollars in bills. So I thought stuff it and dobbed him in!

Having been a groom for many years on very low pay, getting up at 3am to plait horses for shows and not getting an extra penny for the work, I'd leave them be.

What will you achieve by reporting them - you'll have to do the work yourself!
 
It's stealing. I'd report them. The country wouldn't be in the state it's in if everyone paid their dues. The deficit would be paid back in a year or two it's that much of a problem in the uk. It's also the reason Greece is in the pickle it is. The country would have plenty of cash to sort out the NHS and have a decent benefit and care system if everyone paid up. But apparently it's ok to steal if you are poor ...
 
This all started with the OP assuming that because someone wasn't insured then they wouldn't be paying tax. In my professional life if I ever hear the words "I assumed" then I pull the person up short and take them to task. Assumption gets a lot of people into trouble ....... So my advice is to stop assuming and get on with your life.
 
Its not about tax. its about benefits usually, did anyone point out that the employer will be liable for the tax and the national insurance as they are employing people and avoiding payment., to be self employed one has to use one s own tools and not charge per hour.
How may grooms do that? None!
 
How many people on here or YO's have slipped someone some cash for doing 'groom work' a lot of which can be poorly paid skivy work, people trying to earn a bit of extra a week to fund their hobby, no I really couldn't give a monkeys in that situation.
It's hard enough as it is getting a job depending where you live, if someone's busting their balls to earn a crust and already paying taxes through another job, or folk sat on their backsides on the dole but if their 'self employed' and working full time then no I agree its not fair, the tax man will catch up with them the end.
 
blitznbobs said:
It's stealing. I'd report them. The country wouldn't be in the state it's in if everyone paid their dues. The deficit would be paid back in a year or two it's that much of a problem in the uk. It's also the reason Greece is in the pickle it is. The country would have plenty of cash to sort out the NHS and have a decent benefit and care system if everyone paid up. But apparently it's ok to steal if you are poor ...
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some people do talk rubbish= If everyone paid the're dues the deficit would be paid in a year or so !!!!!!! LOL... economics not your strong point then!!!!!
 
Kenzo said:
How many people on here or YO's have slipped someone some cash for doing 'groom work' a lot of which can be poorly paid skivy work, people trying to earn a bit of extra a week to fund their hobby, no I really couldn't give a monkeys in that situation.
It's hard enough as it is getting a job depending where you live, if someone's busting their balls to earn a crust and already paying taxes through another job, or folk sat on their backsides on the dole but if their 'self employed' and working full time then no I agree its not fair, the tax man will catch up with them the end.
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Yes again a fair and sensible view , or maybe it would be good for grooms and people in the equestian industry if not the average horse owner if everyone worked 100% by the book ??? what would you need to charge for diy livery to get some return on the investment ? maybe £50-75 a horse per week perhaps !!! self employed groom £25to£70 per hour and so on...
 
What about if all those that can afford to have their horses at livery ensured that the yard owner paid their grooms a liveable wage then they wouldn't have to find extra work to make ends meet.

But you won't because it would probably double your livery fees.

Grooms work hard enough as it is - though many will say they don't care about the money because they love the work, but they deserve a realistic wage - not the minimum.
 
As the wife of a freelance instructor & groom I find some of these posts really annoying & offensive, just because somebody is paid in cash (how many people can be bothered to pay for a tenner by cheque?) & doesn't charge a silly amount for their services, please don't assume that they aren't paying their way.

My husband works 7 days a week (including christmas & all bank holidays) teaching & caring for other people's horses, he's busy because he charges reasonable rates & is good at what he does, he's fully insured & everything he does goes through the books so he pays all the tax & national insurance he's expected to.

I'm sure a lot of other freelance people & their relatives have found this thread just as insulting.
 
SusieT said:
Living outside your means.
40hr week at min wage-is what, just over 10K a year? The tax calculator says this leaves you with net pay about £9,570.36.

So, house rent, say at a basic level, a 2 bed house with you as the only conributor 350 a month. 4200.
Electricity and gas-assuming yuoa re out working at least 9 til 5-depending on area etc-maybe 50-60 so 600.
Food for one person-20 a week-1040
Travel-bus for a year maybe £600, less if you have a bike and use it.
-Cars probably talking 1.5K to run a basic model for the year?

So that covers house, heating, electrivity, food. Essentials. £6440 to 7340. With 2-3Kleft over for emergencies, saving, extras unseen, things I've forgotten. That's with paying tax. Doesn't take into account dependants, yes you wouldn't be able to support a family on that. But one person? Definitely.No need to dodge tax.
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gosh - thats a fantastic life style for the poor person out in the mud struggling to bring my horses in .................

the Petrol for my old basic car is over 2 grand a year
i am a good bargain hunter but would genuinely stuggle to feed one person for 20 quid a week

i have lived on that kind of income in the past & the brutal reality was that the odd tenner i could earn cash in hand made the difference between eating & not eating
 
What would i do in the op's situation... ie i was confronted by young folk working for a living? i would grab them by the hair round to my neighbours and get them to give them the low down on how to scrounge for a living. It s absolutely outragous that these young folk are working... theres no need to these days.
If they are young ladies i would certainly advise popping out a couple of meal tickets...one kid = rent paid for 18 years.
On a serious note it is rather a big jump from no insurance to not paying tax!
Also my answer is tongue in cheek and i do run my own business and i do pay tax.
 
No, dont have the time to get involved in other peoples business and tbh how do you know they're not already doing so?

My partners father pays 50% tax (yes big bucks) :(
 
I am a freelance groom. I do my tax's and pay my NI but I simply don't earn enough to be taxed on and I very much doubt any groom actually does. Insurance doesn't prove that you have declared to the tax man as they never say you have to be. Stupid to not be in my opinion as it can be a risky job.
I would not be reporting them. Benefits on the other hand yes!!! I hate people who have things like disability benefit but are fine. Also child benefit, why should we pay for people to have kids?! If you can't afford them, don't have them!!!
 
miss_molly said:
Just wondering? A few local "grooms" near me who advertise for paid work and have no insurance (I have enquired as a paying customer). Im assuming as no insurance then they also do not declare their earnings. Would you report them inlight of HMRC clamping down on this sort of thing?

Seems petty but why should some people pay all the correct taxes, insurance, NI etc and other just keep all they earn and not declare?
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Dangerous word Assume - it makes an Ass out of U & Me.

I agree in principle that yes if we earn we should declare it and pay our dues. However, I suspect the local 'grooms' you refer to are earning an absolute pittance, and I for one wouldn't begrudge them a penny (likewise anyone doing a poorly paid manual labouring job, which will earn them bearly enough to pay their rent.

Unfortunately for them, though, it will come back to haunt them eventually as their national insurance contributions will be lacking - and will need to be made up in the long run.
 
How can you be sure they are not paying tax? Just because they decide to risk having no insurance does not mean they are not declaring their earnings to the taxman. In all probablility the earnings are so low that the cost of insurance is a luxury they can't afford. No I wouldn't report them to the taxman - I would much prefer the taxman to spend his time chasing people who are genuinely defrauding the taxpayer of huge sums of money, than waste time following up "tip offs" based upon an "assumption".
 
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