Would you report someone not declaring their earnings?

[SusieT]

No-one pays half what they earn! You pay 50% ONLY ON THE AMOUNT OVER £150,00 NOT the whole amount!!

If you earn £300,000 you have nothing to complain about and damn well should be paying massive tax IMO

Why don't you try this website for a 300K salary-just over 137k tax and NI-that's near enough 6 months work for free. http://listentotaxman.com/index.php

Why should you 'damn well pay massive tax' because you have worked hard throughout your life, work in a demanding job and have huge responsibilty-which those at the top end of the tree money wise generally have? Or aree we a communist nation taht believe no man should work to better himself?
Let's see, when the 50% tax rate came in-someone earning as in this example 300K had to in a year find 20K extra. to pay so that people could 'earn a little extra on the side'. And it can obviously be seen from the calculations that if people only had what was necessary and followed the rles they don't need the cash in hand 'advantage' of scamming the rest of us. Lots and lots of people only earn low wages, cleaners, grooms, bar workers, restaurant workers. Most of them don't get the choice to decide whether or not to contribute to the services they expect for free, NHS etc.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

No, not in this instance. The scumbags that claim and earn would be the ones reported. A little extra "pocket money" wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[SusieT]

I don't see why grooms in particular should be felt sorry for because it's not like working with horses is a last resort job - you don't "end up" as a groom - it's a vocation that people actively go into (as someone above said it's also a lifestyle choice). No one goes into being a groom thinking they're going to be well-off! I feel more sorry for people in telesales and going door-to-door on minimum wage.

Exactly.

 

[TicTac]

I understand your annoyance but it's not something I would get involved with. I use self employed grooms (although I do hold insurance for them) so it is up to them to file their taxes. I care that they do a good job for me and my horses, what they do about filing their taxes is their business.

I agree.

 

[blitznbobs]

some people do talk rubbish= If everyone paid the're dues the deficit would be paid in a year or so !!!!!!! LOL... economics not your strong point then!!!!!

Umm well might not be my strong point (actually it is but we won't go there) but this is actually the biggest drain on the economy at the moment. If you don't believe me then go on the government's website and check it out.. any of you who winged about bankers what they did was legal. This simply is steeling... if you don't like that fact don't have a go at me.

Please check your facts before you tell someone they are talking rubbish.

BnBx

 

[miss_molly]

OMG. Just seen all replies. Did not expect to open such a big can of worms.

Juat to put a few people starisght - Im not a troll, im not petty, I did not leave post to cause an arguemnt, im basing my assumption about tax and NI on the general impression I got when speaking to the person and their attitude to questions I asked, I do not employ people I was enquiring about a freelancer doing my horses, I too am a freelancer and pay all my taxes, NI etc., I do not begrude people earning a few pounds here and there but this is regular work and I know she has other regular (3times a week ) jobs.

Sorry if I offended anyone just wanted a few different opinions to mine before I made up my mind.

 

[SusieT]

Oh for goodness sake! Your calculations were very low. I've not seen a house, or flat for rent for your amount for over ten years! You can just about get a room for that much - especially in areas where the horsey jobs are, and I'm up North.
Here's some examples..
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...ByPriceDescending=false&maxPrice=500&index=10

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-23601752.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-31234498.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^84680&insId=2&sortByPriceDescending=false&maxPrice=500

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...inPrice=200&maxPrice=500&radius=30.0&index=10
You also forgot to add in paying back student loans etc, as a lot of grooms have equine degrees.

Many grooms end up living in horrible mobile homes and caravans their pay is so low. (Or because they accept the conditions)When I was a groom I certainly didn't have the equivalent of £2k to spend on myself (which is only £166 a month/40 odd a week, so not that much anyway. I was in a lucky position when I was a groom in that a grandparent died and left me enough for a deposit to buy a one room studio flat, so I didn't have to live in a caravan. I literally lived on baked beans etc. At the same time, a friend deliberately got pregnant and had a baby, and her parents declared that she had been thrown out (she hadn't). She was given a lovely two bedroomed house, all paid for, and dole money. Her income was way better than mine when I was struggling to pay my mortgage. I often wondered why I bothered!(So she evaded the system-not nice, taking money away from those who needed it. Not nice to do. Same category as tax evasion)

I don't think many of us were saying that grooms shouldn't pay tax.(A lot of people actually are.) We were saying that they do pay tax, on really low salaries, and we don't begrudge them earning the odd tenner on top for teaching/clipping. (teaching and clipping is a lot more expensive than a tenner if you've paid for ti recently!)TBH I doubt that many do anymore because everyone is much more concious of being sued.

I bet that theres not one single person on here who couldn't be proven to have done something not quite legal to sell something or get a cheaper price at some point in time. However smug they come across.(I have always played by the book and never had an issue. It's called budgeting)

I have a much bigger problem with people at the other end of the scale - millionaires who live out of the country so many months a year to avoid tax etc.(They are no more or less deserving of being shopped-they simply earn more money in a different job. They are equally scamming us al)

ffffff

 

[A1fie]

No I wouldn't report anyone for not declaring their earnings but then I never felt the need to report other kids at school for breaking the rules when I was little, or getting colleagues into trouble when I started work.

It feels like snitching to me and whether it's deserved or the morally correct thing to do, it just doesn't sit easily with me.

 

[Jenni_]

People who are too lazy to work and scam the system, report them, hunt them down - whatever.

People who work and pay tax but earn a bit money on the side - leave them alone for gods sake. The government take from us enough to support the lowlifes, and spend our hard earned money erratically - I think all who work deserve a bit if money, all to themselves, if they earn it through graft!!

 

[Honey08]

Deleted. This could go on and on to nowhere!

 

[blitznbobs]

The maths...

There are approx 60 million people in the uk. Let's say that 50 % don't declare 10 pounds a week.(I'd not a lot) that's 30 million x520 pounds of undeclared earnings which is over 15 billion pounds of undeclared earnings... It's not ok. It does effect your country so if you do it don't complain about the NHS the roads or the recession cos you are a big part of it.

 

[xspiralx]

See how you are talking a 'comfortable' life here and I am talking essentials-so yours adds say the council tax and line rental, I appreciate you need a phone to do basics so about 780 onto my calculation-still leaving about 2K for new clothes, presents, etc.
Still not allowing for the idea that you are so hard up that you need to steal from everyone else. Yes, it would be nice if everyone could afford a tv, internet etc. and we are very used to them these days but it is not an essential.

I am talking minimal acceptable standard of living in my opinion.

If I was talking about a comfortable lifestyle I would have included Sky TV, good phone on contract, meals out a few times a year, regular trips to the cinema, or the pub, takeaways, holidays, gifts for friends and family, new clothes - and an ability to put a little aside a month. None of those things are what I would deem particularly extravagant (unless you're buying designer labels and holidaying in the caribbean!).

Even if you take the "luxuries" out of my estimated figures, you're still right on the breadline.

As I said, I don't condone benefit fraud in any sense - no matter what the circumstances. If you want a better lifestyle, get a better job.

I was simply pointing out that the real cost of living is a lot more than you'd allowed for - unless as I say, you literally live like a hermit.

 

[FionaM12]

Deleted. This could go on and on to nowhere!

Haha. As the dragons say "I'm out". Interesting debate, but tired of it now.

Still don't feel even a bit sorry for the ultra-rich paying all that tax though....

 

[perfect11s]

The maths...

There are approx 60 million people in the uk. Let's say that 50 % don't declare 10 pounds a week.(I'd not a lot) that's 30 million x520 pounds of undeclared earnings which is over 15 billion pounds of undeclared earnings... It's not ok. It does effect your country so if you do it don't complain about the NHS the roads or the recession cos you are a big part of it.

and if someone gets some cash they dont spend it !!! then it just disapears into thin air and is lost is it ???!!!!!! .. the more you tax the less people will try, wont start bussinesses, wont do overtime ...and its high time there were some proper cuts to the bloated public sector and the disgusting unfairness of its pay structure was sorted out!! admin and the salarys over 100k cut to something sensible and the people on low public sector wages paid a bit more...

 

[Tnavas]

While you are all quibbling about the payment of taxes - consider the expense of dealing with the person who has failed to pay tax on £10, what would be the tax on this please - I'm in NZ

It would cost the country more to chase and collect than to leave alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshTay
I don't see why grooms in particular should be felt sorry for because it's not like working with horses is a last resort job - you don't "end up" as a groom - it's a vocation that people actively go into (as someone above said it's also a lifestyle choice). No one goes into being a groom thinking they're going to be well-off! I feel more sorry for people in telesales and going door-to-door on minimum wage.

Just because a person choses to work with horses because they love them doesn't mean they shouldn't have the opportunity to earn a liveable wage - one that allows them to save and ulimately have a decent holiday/car/house/life. Sorry not a good argument there! We all hope to be working in an industry we love to do. Your doctor gets paid a good salary - s/he went in for this because they love helping people.

People chose to have their horses at livery, while some struggle financially to do this most have an income that allows them to easily have the horse at livery, a decent car, a trailer or truck, overseas holidays and other luxuries.

I wonder how many of these livery owners would swap their life style for that of a groom. Live in a cold damp caravan, which on winter days is what you also come home to. Poor food, poor wages, a long day, often poor working conditions, ice cold days with icy water from buckets running down inside your boots. Pushing metal wheelbarrows with frost on the handles. Staying up all night to faithfully walk the livery horse with colic and then work all day as well. They deserve to be paid properly for the fact that they care for your horse with dedication and love.

When I took over the lease on my old riding school the first thing I did was look at the rates of pay the staff were receiving. $10 an hour to stand out in rain, hail & snow and in summer the glaring sun and southwest winds (fierce & hot) - I immediately put up the rate to $15 an hour. I felt that this reflected the time, cost and effort the person had made to gain their qualification. At the time the minimum wage was about $5.50 per hr. If they had been booked to do 5 hours of lessons that is what they got , not 3 or 4 because a lesson was cancelled - that is my problem not theirs.

In return I got dedicated hard working instructors who taught their pupils with enthusism and enjoyment. The instructors also used to turn up which on the lower wages they didn't.

 

[springer1021]

Just because they don't have insurance doesn't mean they aren't declaring their earnings, I think it's a bit of a cheek to "presume" they aren't.

 

[Mike007]

The maths...

There are approx 60 million people in the uk. Let's say that 50 % don't declare 10 pounds a week.(I'd not a lot) that's 30 million x520 pounds of undeclared earnings which is over 15 billion pounds of undeclared earnings... It's not ok. It does effect your country so if you do it don't complain about the NHS the roads or the recession cos you are a big part of it.

And if all those people are failing to offset against tax all their legitimate expenses ,but now do,all those billions vanish instantly. By and large (apart from deliberate fraud), most peoples cash income is usualy offset by everything they dont bother to claim for.How many grooms claim for their work clothes?

 

[Tinseltoes]

OP has gone walkies,not posted anymore about it or responded to posts.
She needs to mind her own buissiness and keep out of it.She doesnt know if theyre paying NI/Taxes,shes making assumptions. Proof is in the pudding.People like her make me angry.
She needs to MIND IT AND STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES CONCERNS!!! Its nothing to do with her!!!

 

[SVMel]

OP has gone walkies,not posted anymore about it or responded to posts.

Actually she did, about 12 posts before you wrote this.....

 

[Marydoll]

I honestly don't believe it's that simple. As I say, I think the rights and wrongs are complex.

Sometimes, good people do bad things. I'll not be the one to report them and potentially ruin their lives. If I'd done something foolish in my desperate situation and been caught, I'd not be elligible for the work I do now.

If others want to report their friends and neighbours, that's up to them too. But I wouldn't sleep at night.

Actually i do think its that simple, i agree sometimes good people do bad things, but with these actions come consequences, and if you do the crime you may well do the time if youre caught.
And if my friends and neighbours were claiming benefits and working, i would report them, at the end of the day they are part of a group of people theiving on a huge scale thats costing myself and all other tax payers a fortune.
So in effect theyre stealing from me...... Where do we draw the line with that one ? Its no different to them helping themselves to money from my purse when im not looking, and i dont think many folks would consider that neighbourly or friendly.
Please let me make it clear, im not talking about the odd tenner for a job done or twenty quid for the odd lesson, but full on working and claiming benefits
I would report them and not lose an hours sleep over them

 

[skydancer]

yes definitely - why should they get away with it?

 

[YasandCrystal]

Tbh what they probably earn i'd leave them be.

^^^ This

 

[superted1989]

Haven't read all of the posts, but, I wouldn't report them purely as I couldn't be bothered! It does annoy me when horsey people, who are on benefits, actively seek out 'cash in hand' work (teaching, clipping, schooling etc). If they can earn money from horses they don't need to claim all of the social security benefits. Normally, they can undercut the prices of 'legitimate' instructors etc, so, it's a handy little pocket money scheme!
I know somebody, a good friend, who is on full income support, as her partner left her with 2 small children. When they're at school, she's out, schooling, breaking, clipping etc, etc and makes an average of £100 a week. That money keeps her 2 horses and the social keeps her, her kids and pays the interest on her mortgage. She knows I really, really disagree with it, but, her words, she's better off on the social!