WOW saddle seat / set up question

SEL

SEL

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Can those of you that have a WOW saddle let me know what your set up is?

Horse is coming back into work so it needs adjusting for her, but I got on yesterday and it reminded me quite how uncomfortable I found it. I did raise this with the original fitter last year, but then horse tweaked her suspensory so it all got parked. I'm actually going to get a different fitter out because I'd like a fresh pair of eyes, but if I need to change an expensive part then I might start looking on-line for 2nd hand.

From the invoice it looks like I have
- semi curved deep channel seat
- GP flexed flaps
- SDXWG+T panels

I feel like I'm sitting on the pommel particularly in trot and to get comfortable I'm lounging back like a cowboy and really not in balance. The original saddler put some inserts into the panels which are supposed to make life more comfortable for ladies - they don't. I've tried changing stirrup position but that's also not helping.

I'm regularly riding so its not that I've got out of practice and can't remember how to ride (!), but this is leaving me sore in places I don't want to be sore :oops:
 
are you sure the seat is big enough for you? the only time I've got sore bits is when the saddle has been too small for me and it really hurt (it was a Barry Swain one). whereas I didn't have any issues with my wow which was a 16" semi curved deep seat.
 
One of my liveries has one - just a loaner at the moment while hers is being made. This one has the new Bounty seat, with the "fanny gap", and padded wings. It's very very comfortable!
This one has dressage flaps - I don't get on with GP saddles for flatwork/hacking, as I find that they make me sit like a cowboy
 
MotherOfChickens said:
are you sure the seat is big enough for you? the only time I've got sore bits is when the saddle has been too small for me and it really hurt (it was a Barry Swain one). whereas I didn't have any issues with my wow which was a 16" semi curved deep seat.
Click to expand...

I'm only 5'3" and ride regularly in a 16" saddle company saddle - so I would hope a size 1 WOW would be OK. I think it is fine, but I'm just sitting in an odd place!

Auslander said:
One of my liveries has one - just a loaner at the moment while hers is being made. This one has the new Bounty seat, with the "fanny gap", and padded wings. It's very very comfortable!
This one has dressage flaps - I don't get on with GP saddles for flatwork/hacking, as I find that they make me sit like a cowboy
Click to expand...

I've got the padded wings (sounds like a sanitary towel advert!!) but they are definitely not comfortable. I did ask for GP flaps because I need to sit enthusiastic bucks if she ever gets back in work properly again - not had this problem with other GP saddles though. Hmmm. Need to look up what on earth a fanny gap is and maybe I can trial a different seat.
 
I find lots of saddles deeply uncomfortable...but not wows. my current wow is a standard flat seat, xc flaps. and panels as dictated by the horse.

If it's perching you at the front, does it need adjusting to put it in balance front to back?
 
milliepops said:
If it's perching you at the front, does it need adjusting to put it in balance front to back?
Click to expand...

Hmm - not sure. That would be a cheaper solution than a new seat shape...

It has always looked a bit like its perched forward on her.

What girth do you use? She's pretty deep girthed and the h-girth was sold to me for stability but I'm wondering if its pulling it forward.

(I have just emailed to see if I can get a fitting appointment!)
 
any pics of it on the horse?

the saddle could well be out of balance and you might need a different headplate or changes to the flair. Are you sure you are keeping it back far enough off her shoulder?

you should be able to remove the padded inserts yourself, they sit above the stirrup bars

I am not sure a different seat will help, the pommels are generally built up in the same way although a flat seat or continental might help a little depending on the issue. I would get the fitter back and ask to try a couple of different seats before you go buying anything else 2nd hand. Wow may also be able to build you a seat with slimmer / flatter foam on the pommel which can help some riders (although means buying another new seat!)

The semi curved trees are relatively new - some of the old resin seats would be described as semi curved but they are much heavier and will obviously look older than the rest of your saddle. You may however find one with less padding at the pommel that is more comfortable but you would need to be able to try one to find that out so could end up an expensive exercise
 
I have tried 2 WOW fitters, the first (5 years ago) just could not get me and my horse comfortable, the second (last year) had 2 fittings of over 4 hours a fitting, and the end result was a horse who was very unhappy after the thing shot up her neck (courtesy of the airbag, I think)!

I have actually settled with close contact saddles, one an Equipe and one a Childeric. Horse is happy, I am happy. It is nice being close to the horse and I do like the foam panels. Both were second hand but look FAB, cheaper than a new WOW too.
 
I'm struggling to get my head round the science of WOW saddles - filled with air - yes?? When air is heated it expands so what does that do to the fit of the saddle during work. How does it not affect the fit you have been carefully trying to achieve. Genuine question - I am puzzled.:rolleyes:
 
I have found when sitting too far forward there is too much air. Fitter needs to remove some air (WOW do a course for owners so you can learn to make this type of adjustment yourself).
Size 1 seat should be right size for you if you fit into a 16”.
I think the “fanny gap” is called CC in WOW-speak.
Fitters are of varying quality, ability, knowledge level. I know of 3, 2 I wouldn’t let near my saddle the third is superb.
See if you can get local recommendations.
 
Trouper said:
I'm struggling to get my head round the science of WOW saddles - filled with air - yes?? When air is heated it expands so what does that do to the fit of the saddle during work. How does it not affect the fit you have been carefully trying to achieve. Genuine question - I am puzzled.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The panels contain 2 airbags each, the air bags have a piece of foam attached to them via a sleeve, then there is a thin layer of foam that goes inside the panel between the airbag and the horse. So no, the saddles are not 'filled with air' but the air bags are partially filled by a pump. Yes, air does expand when its heated but there is quite a small amount of air within the air bags and the expansion through heat is minor since we are talking about relatively minor temperature changes (in the 10s of Celsius rather than 100s). Any changes in pressure on or within the panels see compression to the foam that is attached to the airbags.

The 'cc' seat is slightly different to the channel seat - the CC seat has lots of small holes cut into the foam to make it a bit softer whereas the channel seat has an actual channel cut into the foam. Both are in the same place so can help some ladies who might get rubbed in certain areas but some people get rubbed further forward than others so on new orders you can ask for less foam in certain places depending on your need
 
Some WOW seats have a different profile than others even when they are supposed to be the same seat and were made in the same year. If I can't get my middle finger and thumb to just touch the flap on either side when I span them over the twist, then I know the seat is too filled and I will find it deeply uncomfortable. You can get seats reprofiled but the last time I asked it was very expensive, and cheaper to buy a second hand one that's right and sell the other.

I ride in two size one deep for dressage, size two flat for hacking, all on a curved Y bar, and size two event on a flat Y bar for jumping.

.
 
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I'll try and get a photo over the weekend. I'm not convinced at all that it's sitting right on her, but wherever it starts off it seems to end up further forward than I think it should be once the girth is done up.

I'm pretty sure that if I try YCBM's trick of arching fingers over the twist they won't reach, but I'll try that. It does sound like it's over filled for me.

I hate saddle fitting!
 
SEL, I have an eight and a half inch hand span, very big for a female! I'll get a measure for you of what I consider a 'good' seat, in centimetres if you want one?

.
 
SEL said:
Hmm - not sure. That would be a cheaper solution than a new seat shape...

It has always looked a bit like its perched forward on her.

What girth do you use? She's pretty deep girthed and the h-girth was sold to me for stability but I'm wondering if its pulling it forward.

(I have just emailed to see if I can get a fitting appointment!)
Click to expand...
I think a very small imbalance can feel like quite a big difference. So definitely worth seeing if it needs adjusting.
I just use my normal Fairfax girth 🤷🏼‍♀️
 
It sounds like you need to get another fitter out to have a look at it and the seat isn't the right size/shape for you.
I have a WOW with dressage flaps and the deep curved seat, it is the most comfortable saddle ever, I love it, as does my horse. Occasionally my trainer rides my horse on lessons and says it is the most uncomfortable saddle she has ever sat on and like you perches on the pommel. She absolutely detests it. The only reason I can think for this is that she is tiny in stature/build probably a size 8, where as I am 5ft 6 and size 12.
 
silv said:
It sounds like you need to get another fitter out to have a look at it and the seat isn't the right size/shape for you.
I have a WOW with dressage flaps and the deep curved seat, it is the most comfortable saddle ever, I love it, as does my horse. Occasionally my trainer rides my horse on lessons and says it is the most uncomfortable saddle she has ever sat on and like you perches on the pommel. She absolutely detests it. The only reason I can think for this is that she is tiny in stature/build probably a size 8, where as I am 5ft 6 and size 12.
Click to expand...

I am about the same size as your instructor then - on a wide horse. I didn't have any problems in her old saddles (we've been through a few because she's an odd shape), so this is really frustrating!
 
Wheels said:
The panels contain 2 airbags each, the air bags have a piece of foam attached to them via a sleeve, then there is a thin layer of foam that goes inside the panel between the airbag and the horse. So no, the saddles are not 'filled with air' but the air bags are partially filled by a pump. Yes, air does expand when its heated but there is quite a small amount of air within the air bags and the expansion through heat is minor since we are talking about relatively minor temperature changes (in the 10s of Celsius rather than 100s). Any changes in pressure on or within the panels see compression to the foam that is attached to the airbags.

The 'cc' seat is slightly different to the channel seat - the CC seat has lots of small holes cut into the foam to make it a bit softer whereas the channel seat has an actual channel cut into the foam. Both are in the same place so can help some ladies who might get rubbed in certain areas but some people get rubbed further forward than others so on new orders you can ask for less foam in certain places depending on your need
Click to expand...
Thank you for this explanation.
 
ycbm said:
SEL, I have an eight and a half inch hand span, very big for a female! I'll get a measure for you of what I consider a 'good' seat, in centimetres if you want one?

.
Click to expand...
SEL said:
Please!
Click to expand...

Pleasure.

To be comfortable for me, and not make me feel like I'm sat way above the horse and with my bits pushed into the padding on the pommel, the maximum distance over the twist where the binding on the seat edge finishes is 19cm.

In addition to that, the profile must rise from that point in a smooth curve, especially with no sharp rise backwards or thick roll of padding at the sides, otherwise there isn't enough room for your bum.

I'll try and find some good and bad seats on eBay to show you, but like horses, people don't take good side on photos.

This is my seat, for sale only because it's too big, where the profile is correct for me for a size 2. See particularly how thin the padding is at the side immediately behind the twist.

IMG_20190706_192813.jpg



And apologies to the seller, but the photos look to me as if this is exactly what I'm talking about with ones that I find very uncomfortable. See how thick the padding is in the same place on the edge immediately behind the twist, and the lack of a decent dip to sit in. This the same seat, size 2 deep. I have found shallow seats to be wrongly padded more often than deep ones, I've no idea why.


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/293185938713
 
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Here's a size 1 flat clearly showing the huge roll of filling at the edges behind the twist.


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/223625456965



And here's my own, very comfortable, size 2 flat seat, which doesn't show the padding well, but you can see the different profile, with more of a dip to sit in. While we are on flat seats, the size of flat seats, which aren't flat!, is much smaller to ride in than the others.


IMG_20190706_121933.jpg

When comparing, of course, you also need to know the y bar is curved, semi or flat, but I find the 19cm rule, edge depth and dip profile reliable on all seats for me.

Hope that helps!
 
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ycbm said:
Here's a size 1 flat clearly showing the huge roll of filling at the edges behind the twist.


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/223625456965



And here's my own, very comfortable, size 2 flat seat, which doesn't show the padding well, but you can see the different profile, with more of a dip to sit in. While we are on flat seats, the size of flat seats, which aren't flat!, is much smaller to ride in than the others.


View attachment 35582

When comparing, of course, you also need to know the y bar is curved, semi or flat, but I find the 19cm rule, edge depth and dip profile reliable on all seats for me.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

It does - I'll bring the saddle back tonight for a closer look but those rolls of filling are what I feel I'm sitting on - particularly what I feel I'm landing on with rising trot. I had thought my riding had deteriorated and my balance was off, but a course of lessons on another horse and I'm fine - get back on my own saddle and it just feels all wrong.

Thank you - my wallet thinks it is going to be spending money :confused: but I'm hoping the fitter will loan me some different options to try out before I part with any cash again.
 
20190817_085847_resized.jpg

Does this look to be in the right place? The h-girth is great for stability but I'm not sure it doesn't pull the saddle out of position on her.

She isn't pregnant but she has done a cracking job with 7 months off work of developing a food baby! That is despite being on a track with barely any grass and soaked hay - she's from a meat breed and she works hard to make sure you could get a lot of sausages from her

20190817_085127_resized.jpg

This didn't come out as well as it looked on my phone!

And finally because although she's fat (you really don't need to tell me... :rolleyes:) I really don't think she's one of those horses who is flattered by having tack on her and looks a lot better without it, so have one where she doesn't look quite such a blob! She is only around 15.1, but her Dad was a French draft horse and her healthy weight is about 610kg so she is very broad. I posted ages ago about gullets on WOW saddles because her bodyworker said she had soreness around her shoulders, so I suspect that needs looking at as well.

20190817_095232_resized.jpg
 
It is way too far forwards, was she the same size when the fitter came previously? I can see why you are getting sore lady parts because the saddle is well out of balance

How are the girth straps set? Are you already using the point strap?

You may need to temporarily use a different width / shape headplate until she has reduced in size and you may also need a different girthing setup - a foregirth if you are already using the point strap.

How is the back girth strap setup? Is it stitched up?

I think you need to get the original fitter back to adjust since this is not working at the moment. But you also need to slim the horse down substantially
 
agree with wheels, this doesn't really look right at all to me either, and I'd have said the same re foregirth/point strap. I would think if the whole thing was revisited with someone who really knows Wows then you'll feel far more comfortable.
 
Agree, far too far forwards. Looks like either too narrow a gullet plate or too much air in front as well, I don't have mine sitting anywhere near that high. I'm a bit odd, though, I find my horses nearly always fit/go best in a plate that is technically one too wide.

The seat profile looks like it should be fine, if the saddle was further back.


You could buy an air pump and experiment for yourself if your fitter isn't helping.

.
 
I think the tabs on the panels make it appear to sit quite high too, tbf.
I have a pump kit and do my own, it's a bit of a faff when you're on your own but not impossible .. but being in the saddle when you add one tiny pump of air, you can really feel how a small difference can totally change the way it feels as a rider. I would guess that lots of people who say Wows are wildly uncomfortable have just not sat on one that properly fits them + their horse in combination :)
 
Thanks all - I'll try and get the original fitter out because it hasn't sat well for me since day 1. She was definitely slimmer when she was in work so I was fully expecting it to need adjusting but it's never really been right and her bodyworker picked up on issues last year too - as did my lower back.

I have an air pump but it's still in the wrapping due to complete lack of confidence in using it!

She's up to 15 mins trotting without a rider and seems to be staying sound (touches wood) so I'm hoping we'll start to shift the blubber now.
 
If doing it yourself, then I recommend using the pump on one bag at a time, and counting puffs to ensure you have the same in each side. Much easier than wiring up all the plumbing 😁

Fingers crossed for her continued progress.

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