WTF??? Army surgeons practise on live, shot pigs
- Thread starter Flicker
- Start date
weebarney
Well-Known Member
Why do the military need to do this when i'm assuming regular surgeons on the nhs can still remove bullets without this training.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Yes its been going on for years.
Sad for the pigs, but you do have to think about our boys
Sad for the pigs, but you do have to think about our boys
Flicker
Well-Known Member
But...
There surely must be more humane ways to train surgeons??
There surely must be more humane ways to train surgeons??
Burmilla
Well-Known Member
There are, but probably not as cheaply. Vile behaviour.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Removing bullets from civilians is not too frequent an experience in most NHS hospitals - and the facilities and circumstances are rather different from the front line! The pigs are anaesthesised before they are shot - and PTS at the end of the surgery. I'd say LESS sufering than when they go to make pork chops! And they're helping save the lives of soldiers who are in dangerous situations!
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
For those who don't care for the practice, on moral or ethical grounds, I wonder how you'd feel if you had a loved one, a son or a husband, mortally wounded, and the skill of the operating surgeon was down to his experience, on living and still breathing, but anaesthetised pigs. Were it me, I'd be grateful for the porker's input! 
It's only a pig. Get over it!
Alec.
It's only a pig. Get over it!
Alec.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
^^This^^
Flicker
Well-Known Member
For those who don't care for the practice, on moral or ethical grounds, I wonder how you'd feel if you had a loved one, a son or a husband, mortally wounded, and the skill of the operating surgeon was down to his experience, on living and still breathing, but anaesthetised pigs. Were it me, I'd be grateful for the porker's input!
It's only a pig. Get over it!
Alec.
No need to come on all aggressive, Alec.
Pigs are very intelligent, sentient animals.
Would you be responding the same way if 'pigs' were replaced by 'horses'?
Why does one intelligent animal deserve our compassion more than another?
My OH did his surgical rotation in a large south London hospital and says that he spent a significant part of his time pulling bullets out of yardies and stitching up stab wounds, so there are parts of the country that do see these types of injury. Orthopeadic Surgeons in Belfast, for example, are world class due to NI's tragic history.
It just seems so... Barbaric.
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
He may well have done - but he did it in a clean, well equipped operating theatre without anyone trying to shoot at him.
It never fails to amaze me how het up the brits get about animals when so many awful things happen to people around the world. Even more so when the animal is anaesthetised!
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I think pigs have been used in one way or another for years, asI believe their skin is most like humans to work on. I don't like the idea particularly but these surgeons have to learn their skills somewhere. As long as there is no unnecessary suffering it seems to me that it is a necessary evil.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Alec.
stencilface
High upon a hillside
Maybe pigs could be replaced by willing human volunteers? No different to other medical tests presumably and would possibly be cheaper to pay a human than for the pigs, vets and H&S. Failing that it could be a prison lottery where all the nasty kind of criminals' names are put in a tombola?
smokey
Well-Known Member
For those who don't care for the practice, on moral or ethical grounds, I wonder how you'd feel if you had a loved one, a son or a husband, mortally wounded, and the skill of the operating surgeon was down to his experience, on living and still breathing, but anaesthetised pigs. Were it me, I'd be grateful for the porker's input!
It's only a pig. Get over it!
Alec.
Alec, you're a braver man than me! And I'm not even a man!
. Exactly what I was thinking, but bottled out of saying. Wasn't there a thread about people being sheep? I guess I am! 
guido16
Well-Known Member
I have read this article and still cannot see where any suffering takes place.
Anyone are to point it out to me?
Pigs - unconscious
Pigs - shot
Pigs- still unconscious
Pigs - operated on
Pigs - still unconscious
Pigs - humanely put to sleep whilst still unconscious.
Anyone are to point it out to me?
Pigs - unconscious
Pigs - shot
Pigs- still unconscious
Pigs - operated on
Pigs - still unconscious
Pigs - humanely put to sleep whilst still unconscious.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
As long as the pigs are definitely completely unconscious and unable to feel any pain, I cannot see the ethical problem.
Pigs go through worse in farrowing crates and in being electrocuted to make your bacon, guys.
If you really want to get upset about barbarism, let's talk about the countries where they (allegedly, according to a Facebook pic and post which I could not bring myself to click on) use live, conscious dogs for firing practice, shall we?
Pigs go through worse in farrowing crates and in being electrocuted to make your bacon, guys.
If you really want to get upset about barbarism, let's talk about the countries where they (allegedly, according to a Facebook pic and post which I could not bring myself to click on) use live, conscious dogs for firing practice, shall we?
AmyMay
Situation normal
Pigs have also been used as crash test dummies for years.
smokey
Well-Known Member
Pigs have also been used as crash test dummies for years.[/
I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I am now howling with laughter. Now we know who the Stig is!
stencilface
High upon a hillside
*just for the record, I don't eat bacon/any meat*
NeedNewHorse
Well-Known Member
God, the human race is so bloody up themselves!!
We really do live in a very selfish world when we only think of ourselves... Sickening really.
Why should pigs be used.. Why should it even be a consideration, as if in this day and age they can not replicate something similar... if it even needs to be done at all !!
We really do live in a very selfish world when we only think of ourselves... Sickening really.
Why should pigs be used.. Why should it even be a consideration, as if in this day and age they can not replicate something similar... if it even needs to be done at all !!
Last edited:
flyingfeet
Well-Known Member
If they are unconscious I cannot see the problem, as probably better treated than the ones raised in dark hot smelly boxes and then loaded onto a lorry (they scream) and then taken to the slaughter house where they are electrocuted before being hacked apart
..of course I am assuming that as medical porkers they were raised in better conditions than an intensive pig farm, this may not be the case
However I cannot see how this treatment is more or less offensive than killing them for food
..of course I am assuming that as medical porkers they were raised in better conditions than an intensive pig farm, this may not be the case
However I cannot see how this treatment is more or less offensive than killing them for food
TrasaM
Well-Known Member
Or it could be a case of making the punishment fit the crime. Those who shoot get shot.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Absolutely. You'll be telling me next that none of you wear make up or use cold remedies...................
Maisie2
Well-Known Member
As far as I know this has been going on for many, many years - I seem to remember Porton Down being involved in similar controversy. This is apparently an annual event in Denmark for trauma surgeons from around the world. Years ago we had a pig farmer move to the farm next to us, I won't bother with the details just say I didn't eat pork for many years and seldom do now. This seems to me to be more barbaric than shooting anesthetised(sp) animals for the benefit of injured human beings.
daisycrazy
Well-Known Member
No objection to the use of pigs from me, but I love the prison lottery idea!
jrp204
Well-Known Member
Apparently they were also used in WW2 to train surgeons in blast injuries too. Anyone offering to get blown up? Volunteers?? No, guess not. Personally as long as the animal hasnt suffered (eg, being anaesthitised) I have no problem with it and I have no doubt that over the years this training has saved many lives.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
Yes, IF they are anaesthetised. We have to hope so. I suspect that in some test facilities they are not, because anaesthetics and painkillers cost money, which affects the bottom line, of course. I read somewhere about dogs being used to practice limb reattachment surgery. Apparently they weren't given painkillers. I very sincerely hope that was misreported.
And don't even get me started on bear bile farming either, if we are going to talk about utterly barbaric use of animals.
At least this is useful - as above, it saves lives. As long as the animals are guaranteed insensate, it's okay by me.
And don't even get me started on bear bile farming either, if we are going to talk about utterly barbaric use of animals.
At least this is useful - as above, it saves lives. As long as the animals are guaranteed insensate, it's okay by me.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
The idea could be rolled out, so that any survivors get immediate parole, and if they find it all a bit much, then we'll give 'em a decent State send off.
I'm getting into this, and where's Pedantic? This'd be right up his street!
Alec.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Special Forces need to learn how to kill dogs, without weapons, and there's only one way that they can achieve it. Practice makes perfect, or so we're told.
No, I don't like it either, but it's better than a badly mauled member of a team, who whilst in hostile territory and totally self reliant, becomes a liability to the rest of his team.
At least the pigs are anaesthetised.
Alec.
Ets, it's just occurred to me that this is all about our own perspectives. a.
Last edited:
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
Likeing this
but why limit it to crims ?? politcians would be good too!!! fatty prescott ,harman and Cameron would do for a start...