WTF??? Army surgeons practise on live, shot pigs

[teapot]

From that, are we to take it, that you consider the life of a pig to be of greater value than that of a human?

Alec.

Quite the opposite Alec if you read my original post on the subject. You misinterpret my second post - most of us are annoyed that people think its disgusting and wrong when it has some significant benefit to trauma care.

 

[Alec Swan]

Quite the opposite Alec if you read my original post on the subject. You misinterpret my second post - most of us are annoyed that people think its disgusting and wrong when it has some significant benefit to trauma care.

I've re-read your post, and those words of yours which I've quoted. I have, as you say misunderstood. I apologise.

The written word will never be heard, and so it stands the chance of misinterpretation.

Alec.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

I would also like to point out that medicine is advancing hugely as a result of the Iraq/Afghan war - it is a sad fact that this happens (can recommend a book called Medic if anyone is interested.....). Techniques are being successfully rolled out to civilian trauma so we all benefit from things like this ......

Also Army surgeons do a lot of work in the NHS......

Its an animal has feelings.
poor piggies


We are in the 21st century I think the surgeons should know enough by now on

how to get a bullet out
repair the would and try save the person.

I sincerely hope thats sarcasm

People forget that the ONLY reason we have trauma medicine is because of war. That's where it started, that's where it's being improved - the Bastion hospital is the best in the world for very good reason. Now most, if not all of those staff across the 3 services will spend the majority of their time in the NHS before and after their three month tours. If their experience, developed by the use of pigs under GA, improve the chances of mine, my family's, my great uncle Bob, the guy walking down the street etc etc chance of survival when ending up in A&E then I'm not going to complain...

^^^ Took the words out of my mouth
From the sounds of it the pigs suffer no more than the average person going into surgery and definitely no more than the many pigs that go to slaughter.

Medicine advances hugely at times of war hard to deal with but true many of the treatments, surgeries etc. were pioneered in battle field hospitals. Those pigs aren't just saving soldiers lives they save ours and our children and grandchildren.

 

[fburton]

ps yes, he ticks. Loudly. Scares old ladies on buses, especially if he is carrying a rucksack

But rather reassuring, I'd imagine, for those who know what's making the sound!

(Also... a new twist on the phrase "the old ticker"! )

 

[fburton]

From the sounds of it the pigs suffer no more than the average person going into surgery ...

Rather less, I'd have thought, since the average person recovers from surgery and typically has to cope with feeling unwell for a while, whereas the pigs do not.

 

[smokey]

Rather less, I'd have thought, since the average person recovers from surgery and typically has to cope with feeling unwell for a while, whereas the pigs do not.

I would have thought also that the pigs would not undergo the mental strain in the period prior to the operation that a human would feel, thus would not be stressed. I can see no problem at all with this practise, and having seen some true miracles of modern surgery, I fully appreciate that surgeons have to practise on something. I also enjoy bacon, wear leather shoes and feel no guilt. I'm a bad person!

 

[paddy]

Someone was interviewed on this subject on R4 yesterday morning and the slant was slightly different to that the article seems - from a quick scan - to have given. The point they were making is that the immediate treatment of injuries in the field can make such a huge difference to the outcome for the patient. I suppose that, whilst a surgeon could go to a number of hospitals and remove bullets etc, finding exactly the right type of injury on which to practice is tricky (and the delay in getting the right surgeon to the right bit of the UK probably wouldn't result in a particularly great outcome for that patient, so defeating the object of saving human lives).

One would like to think that the animals are properly sedated (I know surgeons have done nasty things to me without putting me under a GA and I've known absolutely nothing about it). As someone else has mentioned above, the animals produced for the cheap cuts of meat sold in supermarkets probably had worse lives.

We have 4 pigs and I love them to bits. But I'm afraid I would sacrifice my pigs for my (ex army) husband. I certainly wouldn't fancy standing in front of a soldier who had been out fighting on behalf of his country and explaining that I'd been the one to ban the testing that might have saved his leg/ arm etc. Or indeed in front of his children if it might have saved his life.

 

[joeanne]

In years to come, should my child go off to war and be shot......quite frankly if the surgeon was able to save the life or limbs of my child, i'll buy him all the pigs he likes to practice on beforehand.
The pigs are under GA....they feel or know nothing. Infact I would say they are getting a better deal than at a slaughterhouse where they are stunned by a massive voltage before having their throat cut....nobody gives a fig if they are intelligent when eating them between two bits of bread, so why it should be different in this case is anyone's guess?

 

[misterjinglejay]

Whilst I am wholly against experimenting on live, concious animals - these pigs were asleep and knew nothing. Far better than the treatment they could endure at a slaughterhouse, IMO

 

[Pearlsasinger]

.)

I would also like to point out that medicine is advancing hugely as a result of the Iraq/Afghan war - it is a sad fact that this happens (can recommend a book called Medic if anyone is interested.....). Techniques are being successfully rolled out to civilian trauma so we all benefit from things like this ......

Also Army surgeons do a lot of work in the NHS......

The only benefit that I can see from either conflict.

 

[Maesfen]

Haven't read all through so apologies if said before but isn't pork meant to be the closest to human flesh too which is why they use them?

 

[cptrayes]

But rather reassuring, I'd imagine, for those who know what's making the sound!

(Also... a new twist on the phrase "the old ticker"! )

Very reassuring except for when my horse was waiting for the hunstman to put him down and then it went keerrrrrazy! Very frightening!!

Sorry about the diversion OP

 

[happyhunter123]

A shame, in a perfect world animals wouldn't be tested on or practiced on. This isn't a perfect world, and so these tests, to save human life, must go ahead.
I like pigs, but for me a person's life would always come above a pig.