wwyd dilemma

OP's opening post mentions a moral dilemma. The moral dilemma is, is it justifiable for a horse not requiring medication to be PTS because the owner wants to spend her money on something else instead.

This is quite different to putting a sick/in pain animal down,
The owner is not facing a financial or health crisis in her own life. She simply doesn't want 'the lovely mare'.
 
dogatemysalad said:
OP's opening post mentions a moral dilemma. The moral dilemma is, is it justifiable for a horse not requiring medication to be PTS because the owner wants to spend her money on something else instead.

This is quite different to putting a sick/in pain animal down,
The owner is not facing a financial or health crisis in her own life. She simply doesn't want 'the lovely mare'.
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I would say that it is a financial crisis to be living off your parents mid twenties due to a horse. But that's because I care more about my Mother than I do a horse. Call me weird and all that...
 
Sweet itch doesn't get better it get worse, I had my old mare put down over a year ago due to her sweet itch, she was in constant pain with it and rubbed herself raw umpteen times over the years and not many people who know about sweet itch would want to take a horse that has it on, I certainly wouldn't having dealt with it for over 11 years.
 
Jesstickle said:
I would say that it is a financial crisis to be living off your parents mid twenties due to a horse. But that's because I care more about my Mother than I do a horse. Call me weird and all that...
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i agree


i love my horse - but having a break (her living away) has made me realise how much she took over every aspect of my life...i just didnt have a life outside of her.... did my nut in... to take over UTTERLY financial to to restrict moving out etc - im sorry but horse comes 2nd.... they are not a pet they are a working animal
 
touchstone said:
Sorry doriangrey, I was replying to a previous poster who'd suggested mortgages etc, I should have quoted in my post. :)
A dog or a cat is easier to care for, and not such a drain on finances; they also tend to be in the house as part of the family, and although my horses are always part of the family, there are those who view them differently, they are a much larger commitment and don't always fit in with life changes like cats/dogs can. I don't believe it is 'just' finances that make pts a more viable option for horses, there are more horses than good homes at the moment and having witnessed some poor creatures at sales in my time I think pts can be a kindness for many.
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I think I agree, horses are much more a working animal especially if they are competing or hunting or working regularly, none of which mine are as one is retired and one is too young. I have my own land and they still cost me enough at the moment even though I can afford it easily. It's hard to explain though but I'll try .... even though my cat can come in and warm itself by the fire and jump on my lap I get just as much a high as when my pony wants attention with a scratch or a nuzzle - when they push their head into you seeking that attention it's magical and just because the cat can fit in the kitchen I don't feel a difference in the affection. I think it's amazing what they (horses) give us, especially as they are ridden, maybe because they are ridden and still give us that extra attention. That's why I feel - as they give us so much - we should at least give them what they deserve in return. Having said that, I have the land and resources to do this and pts at home for some horses will be the kindest and most logical way to go.
 
crazyhorse37 said:
Personally I wouldn't send my horse off to be looked after by someone else, but for some it is a good option. The place in question is amazing. The woman checks all the horses 3 times a day. They are all kept in small herds and out all year round.
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Out all the time in the last month must have pretty grim. Did you go there to see how the horses were enjoying the elements?
 
dogatemysalad said:
OP's opening post mentions a moral dilemma. The moral dilemma is, is it justifiable for a horse not requiring medication to be PTS because the owner wants to spend her money on something else instead.

This is quite different to putting a sick/in pain animal down,
The owner is not facing a financial or health crisis in her own life. She simply doesn't want 'the lovely mare'.
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My morals say its OK to pts a horse you don't want but shouldn't or couldn't sell. When society says we can't be breeding animals to serve a purpose and trading them for values in the first place I might be converted to that if I'm still alive to see it, but as long as the system is that we breed and buy horses because they're worth a lot to us use-wise, there has to be a plan in place for what happens when they aren't worth anything to us. The two best options here are enjoying them as a (very) expensive pet or pts, Taking away and disapproving of the pts option leaves a lot of useless horses up **** creek when nobody wants them as expensive pets. Its just realistic.

OP, keep your horse, stay at home, enjoy her company and move out later, or put her down and move out now. They're both fine by my wobbly little principle line, just don't give her away to some liar or numpty. :)
 
If I only had the experience of HHO forum members, I'd think it was perfectly acceptable to have any horse PTS because the owner didn't want it.
Happily, in over 50 years, I have been fortunate to have known both professional and private owners who did not think this way, with the exception of just 2 people.
Sometimes RL, is a breath of fresh air.
 
dogatemysalad said:
If I only had the experience of HHO forum members, I'd think it was perfectly acceptable to have any horse PTS because the owner didn't want it.
Happily, in over 50 years, I have been fortunate to have known both professional and private owners who did not think this way, with the exception of just 2 people.
Sometimes RL, is a breath of fresh air.
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More likely people in RL wouldn't tell you what they actually thought/did in fear of being on the sharp end of your tongue and having you sit in judgement of them...
 
Jesstickle said:
More likely people in RL wouldn't tell you what they actually thought/did in fear of being on the sharp end of your tongue and having you sit in judgement of them...
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No sharp tongue, Jesstickle and no judgement from me for friends in difficult circumstances. I do chose my friends carefully though.
 
Whatever the OP does, if under the guidance of us, here on this thread, or her vet, or even her family members, it is the right thing. I don't think any of us can judge her situation for her. We should be here to offer her support for her decision, and not criticise IF WE think it is wrong. I wish the OP luck in finding the answer, and I wish the old mare well on her travels, whatever journey that may be.
 
It is surely acceptable to PTS a lame old horse with a condition that makes summer turnout difficult when money is very tight and you are struggling .
 
dogatemysalad said:
No sharp tongue, Jesstickle and no judgement from me for friends in difficult circumstances. I do chose my friends carefully though.
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Good stuff.

I do find people are more willing to voice their actual opinions/ideas on the forum. In life, if you ask people I find they are more likely to try and tell you what you want to hear, or not commit to any answer either way, or say what makes them seem like the better person,so you do get different ideas in RL and here.

I suspect the online world is actually a better representation of what people really think. And I certainly don't have the experience in RL that you do on this matter. I chose my friends very carefully too :)
 
Fools Motto said:
Whatever the OP does, if under the guidance of us, here on this thread, or her vet, or even her family members, it is the right thing. I don't think any of us can judge her situation for her. We should be here to offer her support for her decision, and not criticise IF WE think it is wrong. I wish the OP luck in finding the answer, and I wish the old mare well on her travels, whatever journey that may be.
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The thread is entitled WWYD dilemma. OP calls it a moral dilemma. It isn't an 'only post if you agree with me' thread.

Posters now describe the mare as old, suffering from debilitating sweetitch, crippling arthritis that affects the quality of the horse's life and yet the OP describes the mare as a lovely horse with sweetitch and arthritis. The OP is not homeless or jobless.

The dilemma is not one of illness or poverty, so lets not make excuses to sweeten the reality.

The question is, would you PTS a horse just because you don't fancy having it anymore.

Those who are honest enough to say yes, at least have some integrity. Those who pretend it is in the best interests of the horse, do not.
 
Jesstickle said:
Good stuff.

I do find people are more willing to voice their actual opinions/ideas on the forum. In life, if you ask people I find they are more likely to try and tell you what you want to hear, or not commit to any answer either way, or say what makes them seem like the better person,so you do get different ideas in RL and here.

I suspect the online world is actually a better representation of what people really think. And I certainly don't have the experience in RL that you do on this matter. I chose my friends very carefully too :)
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How do you know what happens in my life better than me ? I think I can recognise the difference between a sick horse and a healthy horse.
 
dogatemysalad said:
The thread is entitled WWYD dilemma. OP calls it a moral dilemma. It isn't an 'only post if you agree with me' thread.

Posters now describe the mare as old, suffering from debilitating sweetitch, crippling arthritis that affects the quality of the horse's life and yet the OP describes the mare as a lovely horse with sweetitch and arthritis. The OP is not homeless or jobless.

The dilemma is not one of illness or poverty, so lets not make excuses to sweeten the reality.

The question is, would you PTS a horse just because you don't fancy having it anymore.

Those who are honest enough to say yes, at least have some integrity. Those who pretend it is in the best interests of the horse, do not.
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I am very happy to say that a horse with an arthritic neck who has sweet itch currently receiving no medication is unlikely to be have a peachy time retired .
 
In real life, as opposed to the internet, I know so many people who own elderly and/or unsound horses that they can't ride any more but who still put a lot of effort into caring for them. Yes, it disrupts your life, but if you buy an elderly horse (appreciate you didn't know she was 19 when you got her but you must have known she was no spring chicken) that's inevitable. People go to university and manage horses either at livery, or loaning them out (as I did, as a companion) or people's live change in different ways. People get new jobs, go abroad, etc..

There was an elderly mare with cushings at my yard until recently, who the owner had lost interest in to the extent that she had two sharers. However I was so impressed with them because when she developed laminitis and the vet was pessimistic, they all pulled together to care for her round the clock, the owner paid the large vet's bills and then she was rehomed with a charity. It is possible. None of them were at all wealthy but they cared for the horse (and for two of them, it wasn't even their horse) which recovered and leads a happy life at the charity.

So the answer is OP, you have a choice between keeping the horse at DIY livery near wherever you move to, which is what tens of thousands of horse owners do, you try to rehome her to a charity or as a companion, you pay for her to go onto full livery, or you put her to sleep. I also know of several people who keep retired horses on full livery while they work full time or buy second horses.

Obviously, with this being HHO, and people being far more ready to put horses to sleep in the real world where people have consciences and things, you will be told repeatedly to pts. But since you have lost interest, you probably won't miss her anyway, and as she is an old unwanted horse, she is meant to be grateful for dying and no-one will miss her.

This is why I won't sell any of my horses once they are past 11 or 12 - I want to ensure they get good homes for life, with people that recognise that they deserve a retirement once they are past working age. I know where 4 of the horses I'd had for a while are, although 3 of them are old and retired now, and they are still in those homes I sold them to. Lucky horses.

Up to you entirely OP.
 
dogatemysalad said:
How do you know what happens in my life better than me ? I think I can recognise the difference between a sick horse and a healthy horse.
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Huh?! It was more of a philosophical musing. I don't see where I claim to know anything about your life?

And then it was a statement of fact about very similar situations to the OP that people in my real life have dealt with and how they are clearly different from the ones you have come across according to your own post?

Sorry if that wasn't clear :)
 
Goldenstar said:
I am very happy to say that a horse with an arthritic neck who has sweet itch currently receiving no medication is unlikely to be have a peachy time retired .
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Not much hope for my lad then.

I'm leaving this thread, it's not often something on a forum sickens me, but some of the trendy attitudes on here have.
 
MerrySherryRider said:
Not much hope for my lad then.

I'm leaving this thread, it's not often something on a forum sickens me, but some of the trendy attitudes on here have.[/

There's nothing sickening in PTS an old horse who is unsaleable nothing sickening in keeping it either as long as you can afford its unkeep and medication ongoing into the future .
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dogatemysalad said:
I think I can recognise the difference between a sick horse and a healthy horse.
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Really? This is a massive grey area, summed up in my brain in about five main stages for horses -

1 Peak physical condition
2 Ifs, buts and niggles but still pretty much fit for purpose
3 Soundness or health problems ending desired career but suitable for general riding and or hacking
4 Unridable but field sound
5 Uncomfortable or in distress at rest

Unsellable lies somewhere between 1 and 4, unhealthy lies somewhere between 2 and 5 and honestly if the OP's horse has sweet itch, its a 5 for me, unless it can be totally managed.
 
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Moomin1 said:
Correct to an extent. However, the main issue is that irresponsible people are breeding horses left right and centre.
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agree with this too.....

OP you will get shot down by some who are in the "rehome on loan" camp....in this economy who wants a companion when a ridable horse costs the same to keep??

I know what i would do (and have done!)
 
noodle_ said:
agree with this too.....

OP you will get shot down by some who are in the "rehome on loan" camp....in this economy who wants a companion when a ridable horse costs the same to keep??

I know what i would do (and have done!)
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Only an idiot would take a companion with sweet itch when so many horses are looking for homes .
 
dogatemysalad said:
If I only had the experience of HHO forum members, I'd think it was perfectly acceptable to have any horse PTS because the owner didn't want it.
Happily, in over 50 years, I have been fortunate to have known both professional and private owners who did not think this way, with the exception of just 2 people.
Sometimes RL, is a breath of fresh air.
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Same here. I've only ever met one person who did it. I was really horrified and shocked.

And I compete a lot and know a lot of competitive showjumping riders as well as people just happy to hack or not ride at all but at any level so much of it is about the partnership you have with your horse, how could you possibly just have it killed when it can no longer work.

Then again, I don't know any of those people who abandon dogs at the side of the road because they've bought a new puppy (at least hopefully I don't).

As for arthritis, there must be very few horses who have led a full working life and in their teens who do not have some traces of arthritis. I would say the decision time comes when the horse struggles to get up or looks dull and listless. Not because its a little stiff when an older horse.
 
How do you think 95% of horses end their lives? The vast majority of horses are PTS, either by a vet or a slaughter house. A "natural" death is usually not very pleasant.
 
dogatemysalad said:
The question is, would you PTS a horse just because you don't fancy having it anymore.

Those who are honest enough to say yes, at least have some integrity. Those who pretend it is in the best interests of the horse, do not.
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There s a difference in putting down a horse that is healthy because you don't want it and one that you cant afford and who's health will detirate especially with arthritis in her neck she going to be in pain grazing sooner or later. The original poster doesn't want to sell her or loan her out in case she ends up in the wrong hands and I've seen the outcomes on this forum with lame/unrideable horses being sold as sound and rideable,
 
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