WWYD in terms of involving vet

Birker2020

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My mare started getting a bit uncomfortable in October last year and had history of coffin joint arthritis. She hadn’t been medicated for many years so after a thorough vet assessment (non ridden) which showed minimal lameness both her fetlock and coffin joint were medicated. A month later she had both the fetlock and coffin joint done on the near fore. Following her medication the vet advised I shoe her in the Avanti PLR horseshoe and she has had about four shoeing’s five weeks apart with this. The Avanti PLR blurb says: In addition to balancing the shoe around the coffin bone, the AVANTI shoe incorporates an optimized leverage reduction design that will help reduce excessive strain and forces on many of the tendon, ligament, and soft tissue structures in & around the coffin joint. I think the vets idea of putting her in this shoe was to support the coffin joint.

She remained sound for a month or so and then one day around 3rd week in December when inexplicably lame. She had ‘got loose from staff’ on that day but I was told nothing untoward had happened, which I tend to believe as when she gets loose on the yard she just tends to mooch off at walk, so I thought it must have been a coincidence. She messes around quite a lot in her field, the horse in the field next to her often sets her off and they will run alongside either side of the fence which isn't ideal. Anyway her lameness has never really gone away. I haven't ridden her again as bringing her in from the field she would look slightly lame, it was very obvious in trot in hand.

On the last visit from the farrier which was around 23rd December I trotted her up for him to show her the lameness. He thought she would be better off in the pads again so we are trying those again when he is due to shoe her in a couple of weeks.

I haven’t involved the vet again as she is not hopping lame. She got loose from me the other day and took herself off down the field and came bombing up fly bucking and galloping so she doesn’t help herself. She is on 1.5 bute a day which isn’t a lot for her 690KG 17hh size. This week she has seemed a lot better in her movement so tomorrow I am going to get on for the first time since before Xmas and just take her for ¼ mile down the lane and see how she is. If she is lame I will see if the pads make any difference and I have physio booked in for 2nd week in March so will see what that throws up. I also think a firmer ground will be beneficial, so when the field starts drying up a bit it will help, if she is pulling her feet through mud it can't be doing her neck anygood.

I really don't want to involve my vet, last time he was on about all sorts of things from tendon splitting (she has an old suspensory branch injury) to pin firing :rolleyes:, I know he means well but that is not really having her best interests at heart imho. He has more chance of winning the lottery than getting near her with a scalpel, I wouldn't even consider it for one second. This stemmed from a conversation with him about the troublesome suspensory branch. The suspensory branch which has caused on and off issues for years (has calcification) but I really can't see how this was an issue when he I spoke to him at the October and November coffin joint medication sessions. It isn't swollen or even warm or tender to touch or squeeze and the check ligament injury that healed so well at the early part of last year is not a contender either. In the past both the vet and the physio have suggested that her lameness 'issues' may actually be stemming from her neck (she has arthritis in her neck which can sometimes cause front limb lameness) in which case there is nothing to be done, I am not having her neck medicated.

I do feel a bit guilty not calling the vet but only because most people might do. I can't see the point, I really don't think anything will be gleamed unless she has countless nerve blocks, scans and x-rays in search of something that probably can't be fixed. I won't have pts as it isn't her time yet, she is otherwise healthy, enjoys life, can get up and down and rolls, lies in the stable, eats like a pig although she is a good weight, is cheeky, fun and most of all happy. She doesn't have laminitis which was another thing I thought of.

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milliepops

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I would involve a vet. Sorry perhaps not what you want to hear.
She’s lame on 1.5 bute a day, that’s lame. Yes she has a lot of past issues that could/could not be contributing to her lameness but only a vet can investigate and diagnose that.
this, in addition there is no way I would even contemplate getting on a horse that is still lame on bute.
 

ester

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So he's been lame since before the 23rd of December, so almost 8 weeks but not seen a vet to reassess the situation? Even to discuss pain relief options?
If you aren't happy with the options your vet is giving you either tell them and ask them what else they would do or get another one in
 
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Tiddlypom

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Horse is lame and was last shod on 23 Dec, and farrier is not due again for another 2 weeks? Did I read that correctly?

That’s a 10 week shoeing interval, which is rather too long for any horse, let alone a lame one with issues.

If you are not happy with your current vet, then change.

It can be difficult to see the wood for the trees with these creaky older horses, but reliable vet input (+ chiro vet, hoof care etc) is a must to keep them comfortable whether ridden or not.
 

twiggy2

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Another kne who says they think it is time for the vet, the horse is on a reasonable dose of pain killers/antiinflamatories and has got lamer- not sure anything else needs to be known before involving the vet.
This current lameness may be completely unrelated to any previous issues and may be an easy fix.
I also would not be taking a horse that is lame out of work out for a 1/4 mile ride.
If your not happy with the vet you previously used then change vets.
 

Apercrumbie

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I agree with the previous posters. Please don't ride a horse that is still lame on 1.5 bute. I would also be looking at the frequency of shoeing and into changing your vet as you're not happy with them. But please do something - it's not good to have a horse in pain for this long without a proper diagnosis & prognosis.
 

Birker2020

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I'm sorry as I've got confused with the shoeings, she's every 5 weeks, last but one was b4 xmas then next one was last week Jan, she's now due 3rd March. I rang vets this morning with a view to getting her booked in next week as I'm off fridays and they said they could see her this afternoon.

So my usual vet came out. On concrete sound in walk, maybe half tenth lame, in trot lame. On lunge walk, trot, canter one tenth lame left rein near fore, on right rein 1.5 tenths lame right rein. This was near fore again, off fore fine.

Flexion slight lame on concrete. Hoof testers ouchy on near fore coffin joint. We are going to try the Aquagel injection of gel. Waiting till ground is better, end March early April.

Week box rest afterwards to give it chance to work as she pratts around in the field.

He said it was mild on a surface but on concrete worse. He also said continue with the shoes but try the pads as well.

Rang farrier after vet had gone and he said he will get the shoes again. It will cost an extra £15 on top of the £100 i already pay but worth it, its best she gets both the vet said.

Thanks for your help guys, i guess i knew deep down it wasn't fair to try to ride but i was curious as she's been looking much better.

Giving it till April i can start saving as ive only worked 4 months in the last 12 as been furloughed so very skint. Literally just finished paying of Septembers invoice. This is why i delayed getting the vet especially as she was only slightly lame. She's had over 28k spent on her in the past 14 years so she never goes without but its been hard with covid and minimal furlough.
 
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Pinkvboots

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I have never heard of the shoes you are using but in my experience remedial shoeing works for while then they get worse, I think with your money situation and everything the horse has going on I would be inclined to pull the shoes and turn away for a while, the neck arthritis itself is a major issue and a lot of horses don't stand up to ridden work with it.
 

Melody Grey

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I have never heard of the shoes you are using but in my experience remedial shoeing works for while then they get worse, I think with your money situation and everything the horse has going on I would be inclined to pull the shoes and turn away for a while, the neck arthritis itself is a major issue and a lot of horses don't stand up to ridden work with it.
Along these lines, might a barefoot rehab be worth considering OP? I’ve know a lot of people (myself included) that have been through remedial shoeing and ended up there for one reason or another.
 

Pinkvboots

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Along these lines, might a barefoot rehab be worth considering OP? I’ve know a lot of people (myself included) that have been through remedial shoeing and ended up there for one reason or another.

Same here both of mine are barefoot now for very different reasons, one was an easy transition the other was a 9 month struggle but so worth it and I would do it again.
 

Birker2020

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We did go barefoot for a while and i was suprised she did so well. This was when she did her check ligament i think. I'd always thought it was a rubbish idea as i had a horse we did similar on and he was very intolerant and in pain with it. She literally walked away and looked like she'd been barefoot all her life. I did mention this to the vet but the problem is the shoe stabilises her foot. She is pigeon toed on her near fore (result of neck issue) so when she pushes off on that foot it kind of swivels for want of a better word and the vet explained that the shoe prevents this rotating the coffin jpint due to its design. And all i can do is hack her anyway so i can't really hack without shoes.

If she can't be ridden again then so be it. I've never denied her vets attention and I've always thrown money at her to try to get her right over the years but one has to eventually come to the conclusion that not everything can be fixed with money.

I think we've come as far as we can now. I'll try this Arthramid or whatever it is and give it a go but i think that will be it then and she can be a field ornament bless her. Vet says nothing to do with her neck anyway which i guess is good as we assumed that was causing her front limb lameness.

Spoke to physio she said she'd heard good things about it. Its so hard to know what to do. Trying to ask myself if I'm being fair to keep her going by treatment but if it makes her comfy.

I left her falling asleep outside her stable while i made up her nets earlier. She's knackered! She was lunged for a good ten, fifteen minutes, she's not been in the school for probably two years now. She was really enjoying herself throwing the odd buck, leaping off the floor with all four feet and pretending to be scared at a jump filler in the school so she could use it as an excuse for a few circles flat out. The vet was chuckling to himself about how much fun she was having. But when she'd calmed down and was balanced she looked incredible. Trouble is she's like that in the field, OH watched her and the horse next door earlier in the week rearing at each other near the fence and trotting up and down the fence line with the one the other side.

That's why I'm waiting till the ground gets better for treatment which is what the vet suggested too.
 
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