wwyd? lazy horse, fed up owner!

[Buds_mum]

My horse is now 6 and lacks enthusiasm for all ridden work, to get him to trot around the school requires more encouragement than should be needed to move a team of dray horses!! And hacking is a unenthusiastic plod if I stop tap tapping or stop moving my legs!!! And I hate to nag :-(
Tbh I am fed up. I have never felt like this about riding, I put off riding him, he is so lazy I am bullying him constantly.
Today in the school he was litterely slowing to a walk even with me riding him strongly forward with leg and schooling whip.
Unfortunately I saw red, really sent him using the crop as well a lot more strongly than I usually would and amazingly (rolls eyes) he went forward softly with impulsion and pinging over a couple of straights giving me a lovely ride.

But I shouldn't HAVE to ride this so so strongly just to get him to go in polite mannerly way in front of the leg. He is not being ridden in the heat and even if he was being is it so much to ask to go forward when asked?

I really really resent riding him atm which makes me feel guilty, miserable and upset. He is my only horse and utterly perfect in so many ways, unflappable, bomb proof, and well behaved in all situations (apart from in tight crowds, ie hunting, he kicks), he is sweet affectionate and has a huge amount of potential.
But he cannot be asked. I have to bully and fight and he just has no enthusiasm at all. He just couldn't care less unless I pee him off and put so much input into him that he actually gives me some effort.

He is living out and isn't on any feed, this can improve him so I will be bringing him in on a night come the end of September. Before that I am away for a weekend away in august and a week in September. So I am thinking of pulling his shoes, and leaving the riding. It is miserable for both of us, me in particular as he doesn't seem to care at all what I do.

Would you turn away, cool off and bring him back with more of a micro managed approach?

He is a native coloured cob type so is never going to be a tb but I just want to sit on something that wants to join in with me :-( a proper partner. I love him, but am struggling atm :-(

Sorry for epic post!!

 

[Jnhuk]

Have a read at this

http://www.regardinghorses.com/2009/10/23/three-steps-to-make-your-horse-light-off-your-leg-aids/

 

[Tern]

If it was me then yes I would turn away and bring back in a month or so.. Again this is my opinion and what I would do in this situation and likely different to a lot of others.

 

[TigerTail]

Ok Id look at a few things.

First off his feet, any underlying issues? Weak heels, thrush etc?

Saddle? Treed? Fitting properly verified by a couple of decent saddlers?

Physio checked out?

Your riding - nagging and kicking cause the horse to brace and shut down. Sounds like you've got a vicious circle going on of frustration on your part, understandably, and him ignoring the leg. A new instructor, suggest you try one of these
http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/teacher_find.htm as eyes on the ground can be invaluable and if you already have one sack them as clearly what they're doing isn't working!

 

[Mongoose11]

Go right back to the beginning with him, little leg backed up swiftly with a schooling whip. Sounds like he has gone dead and needs something very different. Turn him away for the break that you mentioned and if you don't have the skill to bring him back in then get someone else in who can teach him a new way of going.

I had a mare who I thought needed a kick, squeeze with every rise, she did if I rode her that way. She was restarted with very little leg and it turns out she'll go forever if you ask her to and occasionally squeeze her up. Completely different horse. Had to be very quick with the schooling whip and very gentle on her mouth to teach her to go forwards and keep going forwards.

 

[Devilsadavcote]

Hello, I understand where your coming from as I've had horses like this in the past. Lazy, unenthusiastic horses are not fun to ride. It sounds like he has become numb to all your aids and ignores them. What you need to do is re-sensitize him, which will take lots of schooling but it will pay off. You have said that if you ride strongly he goes nicely, so you need to start riding him more strongly ever time you ride, he has become so numb to your aids that this may be the only way to get through to him for now.
Here are some very good exercise that have worked on all horses I've ridden that need re-sensitising.
1. Start off in halt and squeeze your legs to ask him to move forward.
2. If he does not walk straight away squeeze more strongly and back your leg aid up with one short smack with the crop.
3. Once you have got him moving off your leg from halt to walk, move up a pace and carry on using the above method.
4. Make sure in your schooling that you do lots of quick transitions in walk, trot, canter and even rein back.
5. Also do transitions within the pace, so lots of extension and collection.
6. Also mix up the work you do with him, Flat, Jump, poles hacking and days off, this will hopefully keep him more interested in working
7. Lastly, if he still needs that extra kick think of amping up his feed to a high energy mix.
Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[tankgirl1]

Squeeze, nudge, kick, use schooling whip - all within a few seconds, and obvs remove any pressure when he goes forward, and let him go forward! This sorted my rather dead to the leg loan horse - my fault as I was a serial nagger! I wouldn't start messing about with his feed and adding cereals tho - therein that way lies trouble!

 

[Tnavas]

jnhuck - good article

Nothing worse than having to nag - but there is the answer! If you nag all the time you get no reaction

One leg aid, no response, second leg aid - no response. leg and stick together.

To train your horse to be responsive you need to ensure that you get a result every time you use your leg.

Mary Robins was working with one of our Pony Club riders recently and his horse of slow off the leg. She told him to stop using his leg but to use the whip instead, so whip light tap, repeat slightly harder tap, third tap was a real sharp one. Didn't take the horse long to start responding to the first tap.

You will need to be determined - use your mind as well - the 'Power of Positive thinking' THINK GO! when you use your leg. if you need to use your whip make sure that it is used with sufficient bite! No good doing doggy pats with it. If the horse reacts by shooting forwards don't slow it down, or grab at the reins, go with it and praise - the horse has done what he's been asked to do - go forward. Getting the right amount of forward will come when he is more responsive.

If necessary - ride with a schooling whip in each hand.

Also suggest that you get a blood test done - just incase he is anaemic.

Also remember the more work he does and the fitter he gets the more energy he will have. Being unfit doesn't help

 

[CBAnglo]

I have one like this ; he tends to be lazy by nature especially when flat work is involved. He loves jumping though and so now I try to do a bit of variety with him in terms of pole work, flat work, lunging and hacking. Are you doing a mix?

In the school I really need to rev him up by doing lots of transitions; as said above, leg, then tap then a wallop I agree it is not nice but after he has woken up it is a lot nicer than banging about with my legs.

Do you have someone who can help you on the ground with a lunge whip?

Also are you happy that physically he is ok? Mine started getting really sour in the school, was getting really tired after 20 mins of jumping (nothing massive he could have trotted over everything) and refusing to go forward out hacking and rearing at everything. He just felt off it didn't feel like he was being naughty. Had him blood tested and turned out he had a liver problem caused by ingesting some kind of toxin. Not sure what but he ended up with 4 months off and when brought back into work he was so much more forward (he is always going to be laid back I think).

Is there anything that excites him? Can he go out for a fast hack with a sensible/silly horse? Mine loves going fast so it doesn't matter what he is out with as long as it is exciting. He is even perkier in the school if someone else rides at the same time.

 

[Sandstone1]

Has he been checked by vet? Maybe a problem making him lethargic?
6 is young, maybe he needs a break.

 

[twiggy2]

so many questions.
I would be thinking about how much work he is doing on a regular basis, if you are not working him regularly and he is not ft then any work may be a struggle for him and make him less keen. I would also look at his weight as in is her struggling because he is fat, then I would get a good instructor in who is also happy to get on him if needed. you need to teach him to go forward from the leg, it is not something that horses just 'know', it is so easy to teach horses to ignore the leg aids by nagging and takes consistancy to correct the bad habit.

 

[merlin12]

Perhaps he is not the right horse for you. Perhaps a different breed/type would suit you better. I love cobs ,I have a friend who prefers TB types. Do you prefer a horse you have to push on or one you have to slow down. Cobs can be hard work.

 

[Red-1]

[video=youtube;JViKZKgUixg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JViKZKgUixg[/video]

The horse has NO GO whatsoever, and it is a steady and well thought out progression. I am talking that the horse will not even go a step. It is a really clear explanation, shown in real time.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I have one like this. He's a native cob, the most obliging horse ever. When he looses his oomph and is reluctant to go forward, I get him off the grass, treat him as pre-laminitic and exercise gently, removing all the leg and hand nagging.
I know him very well and his sluggish behaviour is a kind of barometer of his sugar intake.

 

[Sukistokes2]

My cob could be like this....

I would first check there is nothing wrong and everthing fits.
you have been given some great advice about schooling to follow,

Also think about what you a feeding him, does he have the energy to do as you ask. I would feed him and add a oil based supplement or a shot of corn oil with some vitamins. Oil based supplements can really perk up cob types, it will take a while to work out levels, he won't need ceral feed, something like a chaff with nuts or alfa a.

 

[misskk88]

Checked by vet, check back etc. If all is ok, he sounds like he has maybe gone slightly sour- give him a bit of time off just to chill out, then maybe mix up his routine a bit to keep him entertained i.e different route for hacking, riding outside of the school, taking the opportunity to jump in the lorry and go out somewhere!

As for the nagging- I have always been taught that your leg aids whisper once, talk once and then shout. If he comes back into work and refuses to listen and has absolutely no issues, I would be inclined to say that a short, sharp telling off which gets his attention and gets him moving, is better than to constantly nag.

Lots of short sharp transitions, changes of rein, lateral work etc, where he really has to be thinking forward would help. When I had a horse that was pretty much dead to my leg I use to ride in the school and make a transition or movement at every marker. That way it was quick, sharp and had them anticipating what was coming next.

 

[misskk88]

Also- I note you said you do not feed him hard feed. If he is that lethargic while being ridden, after all checks etc are done, I would be inclined to say he needs a bit of grub for energy. There is plenty out there to feed to help- we usually add a handful or two of oats to feed for those that are flat- usually helps.

 

[ameeyal]

I have a six year old that "was" just like yours, talk about slow, he was also very imature for his age, 4 months ago he went through adolescence, he has come out of that, and isnt a plod no more.

 

[canteron]

I have one who was like that and part of the answer is in the schooling and hopefully there is enough inspiration on here to give you some food for thought.

But additionally, are you sure you aren't boring the horse to death in the school. Some horses need a lot of repetition and feel 'safe' within that, others just switch off. My 'lazy' mare, is lazy no longer if you put a jump in front of her - or when you take her hunting/eventing you wish you had a bit more of a plod. Have a good think about your horses character type! Introduce some positive reinforcement into the training, lots of praise and a few treats can also change attitudes!

 

[Mongoose11]

Perhaps he is not the right horse for you. Perhaps a different breed/type would suit you better. I love cobs ,I have a friend who prefers TB types. Do you prefer a horse you have to push on or one you have to slow down. Cobs can be hard work.

100% disagree with this. Any horse can be trained to go forward and react to aids appropriately.

 

[NellRosk]

Could you try feed him a vit and min supplement/ balancer? If he's not on any feed he might not be getting all he needs. This combined with a different approach to schooling woke my lazy ID up. Also you say he can't be hunted as he kicks but if you can somehow overcome this and take him for a season hunting he should really come alive!

 

[MileAMinute]

What is he like out hacking?
My horse is 5 and is receptive to leg aids, but I can feel him 'switch off' if we've been doing too much of the same thing. I try and make sure he has a varied exercise routine and do something different most days. We also go somewhere new twice a month, be it a show or just somewhere different to hack.
I also echo the others about retraining the leg aids and the exercises given.

 

[Buds_mum]

Wow wow thank you all so much some fab responses and a lot of food for thought. At work so cant reply to all but some really good points, he does do a lot of hacking but we live in a tourist area and I have had to stay away from the road a lot due to traffic as it has been hetic and we have no off road hacking This might of switched him off a bit.

I think I will take into account the fact he is ONLY 6 and a big lad who may not of finished yet and give him the rest of the summer. Then bring him in come Sept when I get back from holiday, thinking of giving him a course of either 'restore' (global herbs) or a similar detox type supplement... And maybe getting him on something like blue chip to boost him up when I re start him.

Saddle has just been checked but he due the physio.

We went to a show on Sunday and was so strong I couldn't hold him, then he realised it wasnt that excited and I couldn't even do my individual show because he wouldn't go forward and fell asleep!!

Really appreciate all the comments some real food for thought.

Schooled this morn and was tough on myself to be utterly consistent as per article on the first page and only had to escalate to a real good smack with the whip once when he didn't go after being asked on the second leg aid. We only did 10 mins and then stopped on a good note but feel a less disparaged today.

 

[Meems]

I feel your pain as my horse goes through periods of being incredibly lazy (usually made a lot worse by hot weather). Luckily she's not been too bad this year.

We don't school anymore point blank, I did used to try having lessons but it would have been less effort if I got off and carried her around the school.

She loves going on sponsored rides, trec, cross country schooling, hacking in different places etc. Luckily I do have my own horsebox so can just get up and go. Anything that she enjoys which is a bit different and she doesn't actually realise she's putting in any effort! I prefer to hack alone but if we're out with someone else that often perks her up.

I have tried supplements in the past (can't remember the last one I used) it was by TEN. Anyway it did absolutely nothing, although reading the blurb about it beforehand it sounded like it exactly the magic potion she needed.

I have been feeding turmeric for the past few months instead of her usual joint supplement and it does seem to have perked her up a bit.

Good luck I know exactly where you're coming from, at the end of the day it's nice to have a 'laid back' horse but when they are so laid back they are practically horizontal it makes riding not much fun.

 

[TigerTail]

Id be careful about Blue Chip and just shoving cheap sources of sugar based energy down a baby tbh. Id go with mature oats personally, don't fizz but clean energy and micronised linseed for omega 3's in winter. Have a read on Thunderbrooks website and maybe give their nutritionist a ring.

Also just because according to a saddler the saddle fits it doesn't mean he is finding it comfortable, id try a solution and or a heather moffett and see if he prefers the freedom of his shoulders.

 

[Mitchyden]

I have an Arab mare that was incredibly lazy to the extent I'd have to use a schooling whip out hacking. It became such a chore for me especially around August time when I felt I could have got off and carried her quicker than we were moving!

I decided to have her tested for Equine Cushings as lethargy is a symptom and although she was only 6 at the time, it came back positive. Now she is on medication, she is more forward going although from around now until November she is still very lazy. I believe this is due to the seasonal rise in her ACTH levels so I arrange my competition season around this.

 

[Moomin1]

Lessons!! Honestly, that is the best way forward to keep you motivated, and address the issue with him. He does sound very lazy and I can understand why you would become disheartened, but provided he's all ok physically then some time and patience coupled with weekly schooling should see an improvement.

Definitely think the one sharp smack can help better than a lot of niggling taps with the whip.

 

[Feival]

Turn away till the end of sept, Then restart when your feeling less annoyed and he's ready to go.

 

[mandwhy]

I absolutely know your pain and am often fed up too. Some horses are just lazy and don't like work, or listening, my haflinger mare is one of those, however I am pretty firm with her and she has transformed over the past 6 months or so, she is often too strong now when we go out for hacks especially. Schooling can be hard work, I use a short stick as she doesn't respond to a schooling whip very well. A casual smack down the shoulder or on my leg is often all she needs now, it's more the noise I think.

You just have to cultivate enthusiasm by doing things that interest them whilst also being firm and insisting, both within reason, a little compromise . I had to issue quite a few bottom smacks in my first few lessons with her (I literally tried everything hence I had to get special lessons for this issue) and it was horrible, but I focused on easy work for a long long time, getting good walk halt transitions and getting good trot for short periods, now she hardly needs it until she is having a nappy day (a recent polework lesson presented the old nappy pony until she got into it and was pulling me right towards them with gusto!). We still have a bit of a job cantering consistently when schooling in the field (and note she is ten times worse in her own field as many horses are) but on a hack she is strong and enthusiastic, which is fine by me as long as there is space and she doesn't completely ignore me, it's refreshing when she is so forward!

 

[smja]

There's nothing wrong with using a whip to back up your leg aids, as long as the horse has been given the opportunity to react correctly. For example, light leg aid. If no reaction, stronger leg aid. If no reaction, tap with whip. If horse goes off light aid, he gets verbal praise as further reinforcement.
When within a pace, the horse should keep going at that pace until told otherwise - don't get into the habit of nagging. Say if cantering round and horse tries to trot, do light-strong-whip as above. If I've been cantering for a while and horse wants to trot because he's getting tired, I would still make horse canter forward as though we were continuing, then bring down to trot after about 4 strides and pat.

Chin up, OP, and good luck!