WWYD - Livery personality problem

[Speedyfluff]

I am asking this on behalf of my friend who runs a small livery yard because she is at a loss as to what to do. I don't know what to advise her. She has a long standing livery (livery A) who has been with her over ten years and who is deep down a really lovely person. The type who would do anything for you. But she has a personality problem. To put it frankly, she is totally miserable looking and will blank people, never smile etc. I have met her several times and this is true, not just my friend saying it. She doesn't thank people, she doesn't greet people. She puts things to people in a way that makes them feel as though she doesn't like them. But my friend knows her so well now, she knows it is just the way she is and that it is some sort of social ineptness and in no way meant to upset people. Therefore, my friend just ignores it and carries on as though she hasn't noticed if the livery seems 'off' with her because that is how she is with everyone and she has stepped in and helped people in their time of need like no other person, so she knows she's a good person. Now to the problem. My friend's husband is convinced that this livery has been behind several other good liveries leaving over the years and that she should be asked to leave or at the very least, be spoken to about it. My friend has been quite dismissive of this because no one has said anything to her about it until yesterday. She noticed one of her other, quite new liveries (B) was upset. She asked her why and eventually got it out of her that it was livery A who had upset her. Livery A has a very sharp, unfriendly tone of voice and seems very abrupt and livery B ( a very personable, bubbly character) had taken it to heart. My friend took her aside and explained that livery A is like that with everyone and that she honestly doesn't mean it, and that after all the years of knowing her, she has come to realise that it is some kind of personality flaw and she really can't help it. Livery B is unconvinced and thinks A doesn't like her and she now feels completely uncomfortable even fetching her horse in if A is around. My friend offered to speak to A but B said not to and that she'd learn to live with it.

My friend is now beginning to wonder if she has actually misjudged A and that A may in fact be doing these things on purpose. She does monopolise her time a lot and seems envious of other liveries. She's always criticising other people and complaining about them. But my friend feels loyalty towards her because she has helped her out through some very hard times and stayed on the yard throughout all the comings and goings and always pays bang on time etc.

What do you think she should do?

 

[Goldenstar]

Drink gin ,lots of it ,no good way out of this situation .

 

[Antw23uk]

I think she should leave Livery A to it and tell livery B to grow a pair and get over it. Some people aren't nice, some people don't like the human race and want to keep themselves to themselves, its as simple as that.

If the yard rules say people should be nice and polite then by all means have a word with livery A BUT with livery B there to get the air cleared.

I'm rude to people sometimes, I generally don't like anyone. Don't take offence, just stay out of my way, I don't mean any harm and livery A is probably the same.

 

[Antw23uk]

Ahh see now look .. a much better answer to my one, lol

Drink gin ,lots of it ,no good way out of this situation .

 

[cobgoblin]

It's a difficult one, but livery A sounds like a bit of a cuckoo who pushes everyone else out of the nest. I've met several people like this in different circumstances and, although it would be nice to be able to say that they don't know what they are doing...I don't think that's true. They are usually very nice to, and ingratiate themselves to anyone that they perceive as being useful, but everyone else can go to hell.
Doing nothing isn't really an option if good liveries are disappearing. Perhaps your friend should have a word with livery A and explain the situation...she will either flounce off and leave, or deny everything and carry on the same ( in which case she will probably eventually be asked to leave) or she will take it on board.
This situation is not your friends doing, there is no way she should feel guilty.

 

[indiat]

What Goldenstar said! If it is just her personality and she keeps herself to herself, then liveries just need to learn to leave her be and ignore her mannerisms. But if she is trying to "keep" the YO all to herself and is actively being rude to others, then it's a problem. Question is, how on earth do you prove it?! Now, where's the gin?

 

[OWLIE185]

Livery A has been loyal and been there a long time. She is unlikely to move and will provide livery owner with income for many years to come.
Livery B is new and far more likely to leave.
Livery A may have an odd personality but so what she pays up on time and is a loyal customer.
I like loyal customers.

 

[Clodagh]

Everyone can force a smile and say hi. Livery A sounds like a trouble maker. I think gin sounds like a plan, failing that your friend needs to approach Livery A about her attitude. What an awful job!

 

[Snuffles]

Livery A may be one of those people whose face in repose looks miserable and it can be off putting to people who dont know them ! Also Do you think she may be slightly autistic ?
YO has been happy to have her on the yard for 10 years. Liveries do come and go regularly and some people do take umbrage very easily. Perhaps YO should have a quiet word with her other liveries and see how they feel

 

[EQUIDAE]

It's a difficult one but YO needs to think who is reliable. If t wasn't livery A who was upsetting livery B then it could be someone else - how many people does she throw off just to keep the peace? Livery A has been there 10 years, hasn't bailed, and pays on time. Livery B needs to grow a pair...

 

[cobgoblin]

Why should livery B grow a pair when she can just move and be out of the situation? It sounds as though there is a suspicion that this has happened before.

 

[EQUIDAE]

Why should livery B grow a pair when she can just move and be out of the situation? It sounds as though there is a suspicion that this has happened before.

There are lots who do this as the slightest hint of a disagreement. Livery A however sticks it out.

 

[chillipup]

Drink gin ,lots of it ,no good way out of this situation .

LOL naughty Goldenstar but sounds like good advice .

I'm not sure my laptop will recover from this, I've just spilled half a cup of coffee over my keyboard reading this reply! Rushed out to get cloth to mop it all up, swearing, and frightened my poor dog, (don't think she's ever seen me move that fast before!) but so far so good. The keys are a bit sticky but pooter is still working....for now




A difficult position for your friend to be in Speedyfluff, this is a tricky situation. Sounds like livery A is likely to be offended if your friend mentions her attitude, whilst on the other hand, if A is making life ***** for other liveries, she has to be told to stop.

If livery B is young, I can understand her being upset by A. If she's not, just tell her to ignore A. However, if I was a livery and A treated me like that, I'd call her out on it; blanking someone is rude and unnecessary, and I don't care how socially inept A is, it's not an excuse.

It costs nothing to acknowledge someone, 'A' doesn't have to smile or be overly friendly with anyone else but she should (and must be) aware how her manner comes across and at least acknowledge someone if they've said hello or smiled at her. Of course if your friend now has a word with A and B finds out, B's going to feel really awkward. Hmmm, good luck to your friend.

 

[Lissie2]

I think unless Livery A does something horrible DIRECTLY rather than just be somewhat difficult to deal with then people should leave her alone. Just worth adding that Livery A smacks of someone with Aspergets Syndrome - many people don't know they have it. It's very mild autism and shows in general lack of sociability, poor conversation, overly direct, lacks subtleties and can't read soft social cues etc. These are nice people who just aren't wired to connect like your usual person. Ive met many many women in the horse world with Aspergers. However if she's openly rude on a personal level, rather than being grumpy or short... Thats not Aspergers, that's someone who needs to be held accountable.

 

[cobgoblin]

There are lots who do this as the slightest hint of a disagreement. Livery A however sticks it out.

It doesn't mean that livery B is/would be an unreliable livery, just that she found she was uncomfortable. Some people are averse to confrontation, in fact I would say that most avoid it where possible.
If livery A is the cause of 'good liveries' leaving, then of course she would stay, as she has got her own way. Supposing she keeps doing it...either the yard ends up with just her on it and a constant stream of others coming and going, or only the most confrontational people would stay.....I dread to think what a livery yard would be like with a number of people like me on it!

 

[Lizzie66]

Have a yard get together and gin party and see if a level of sociability can be achieved. Mind not too much gin at the party as this might make it worse, save the rest of it for after you might need it !!

 

[EQUIDAE]

It doesn't mean that livery B is/would be an unreliable livery, just that she found she was uncomfortable. Some people are averse to confrontation, in fact I would say that most avoid it where possible.

But she isn't though is she? She's moaning to others - she's actually the one causing the bad feeling not A. It's quite passive aggressive and if she is moaning already when nothing has actually happened, it's only going to get worse.

 

[chillipup]

Have a yard get together and gin party and see if a level of sociability can be achieved. Mind not too much gin at the party as this might make it worse, save the rest of it for after you might need it !!

OMG, half of them will end up sobbing, the other half fighting!! (can I come and watch?

 

[cobgoblin]

But she isn't though is she? She's moaning to others - she's actually the one causing the bad feeling not A. It's quite passive aggressive and if she is moaning already when nothing has actually happened, it's only going to get worse.

I read that the YO eventually got it out of her.....not that she was actively complaining.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Am so glad I am not on a yard.......

 

[Feival]

Bye Bye Livery A. Clearly a manipulative person who needs a boot up the bum

 

[be positive]

But she isn't though is she? She's moaning to others - she's actually the one causing the bad feeling not A. It's quite passive aggressive and if she is moaning already when nothing has actually happened, it's only going to get worse.

She was upset not moaning to others, from what I read the YO had to get the info out of her.

As the YO of a very small yard I know how difficult it can be to have a grumpy/ moaning/ miserable or otherwise personality on the yard, on a big yard it is easier for them to be ignored or not even noticed but on a small yard is more likely to have a negative effect on the whole place as well as on the YO who will be in the middle of it.

I think I would a) speak to livery A and tactfully tell her that she has upset another livery, no need to name B, that as she is a good friend/livery you would appreciate it if she could make a little bit of an effort to be welcoming to new liveries and try to make them feel they are in a friendly helpful environment, if she takes umbrage then you know where you stand, if she accepts and offers to be helpful then keep things as they are.
b) speak to every livery when they arrive before they meet livery A and warn them that she can be abrasive but doesn't mean any harm etc.
c) have a yard barbeque or get together and see if the excess of gin helps relax any tension.

I have similar in a new livery who is not the most friendly, is a bit off and if I start to feel uncomfortable in my own yard or my long term liveries have any issues then she will be given notice but that is much easier when it is the newcomer that is causing friction than a long term livery, jury is out at the moment on mine but I would rather an empty box than bad vibes on my own property.

 

[Malibu_Stacy]

Also Do you think she may be slightly autistic ?
l

I have to say this was my immediate question on reading your original description. A lot of children who are now recognised as autistic would 15 years ago plus just be labelled as slightly odd or antisocial, so I'd expect there is a not insignificant number of undiagnosed adults out there.

Obviously can't diagnose over the Internet, but may be something to bear in mind?

 

[Speedyfluff]

Oh my goodness. Thank you all so much for your replies which I have shown to my friend (we're not drinking gin yet, but will pinot grigio do?). All these are very good points and why I was at a loss to advise her what to do. Regarding the Aspergets Syndrome , yes that is a definite possibility. She seems to do it more when she's scared of riding her horse, so very wrapped up in her own concerns. She is hard to socialise with as she is the kind of person to either sit not saying anything, or will turn her attention on just one person (such as my friend) and make it very hard to speak as a group IYSWIM? She's extremely bright and has a masters degree, and is a professional lady in a senior position. Livery B is not a young person. She is very friendly and warm. My friend had to virtually beg her to tell her what is wrong. She did not go and complain to my friend, but my friend could tell she was upset by something and had assumed it was her!

Okay, so my friend is still on good terms with some liveries that are left and she is actually meeting with one of them in a couple of weeks to help her with her horse. Her husband is insistent she now says something to livery A but my friend is torn due to all the excellent points made on this thread from both sides. She is going to quiz this ex livery about livery A and may also speak to some others. Word would not get back to livery A, she is sure of that. Hopefully this will give her a better idea of whether any of this is intentional behaviour. My friend's husband reckons she treats my friend very well and differently from others. She is also very friendly to him and to my friend's sister and children. Though never warm - just not rude.

 

[Queenbee]

Drink gin ,lots of it ,no good way out of this situation .

Goldenstar - you are my favorite poster of the day - brilliant post!

 

[Queenbee]

On a more serious note - I too thought she could be on the spectrum from your description.

 

[Sleipnir]

I am quite like her. Never rude, just not sociable and am often seen as "grumpy", "aloof", "with a cold voice/look/etc.". It's better if I manage to befriend somebody, but with people I don't know, like or trust - imagine the famous Grumpy Cat. Also, I've been diagnosed Aspergers and I'm actually like that because it's terribly hard for me to communicate and to show emotions IRL. Livery A sounds very much familiar.

(Does she, perhaps, find it much, much easier to communicate over texts/in Facebook/e-mail?)

 

[Speedyfluff]

I am quite like her. Never rude, just not sociable and am often seen as "grumpy", "aloof", "with a cold voice/look/etc.". It's better if I manage to befriend somebody, but with people I don't know, like or trust - imagine the famous Grumpy Cat. Also, I've been diagnosed Aspergers and I'm actually like that because it's terribly hard for me to communicate and to show emotions IRL. Livery A sounds very much familiar.

(Does she, perhaps, find it much, much easier to communicate over texts/in Facebook/e-mail?)

I'm not sure. I do agree though. I think she is probably affected by some degree of autism.

 

[Sleipnir]

If it is really so, it would be extremely unfair to ask livery A leave, because, if this is the case, she really can't help it.

 

[Yardbird]

If it is really so, it would be extremely unfair to ask livery A leave, because, if this is the case, she really can't help it.

And unfair to her horse who must think of the yard as home.