WWYD....opinions

Sukistokes2

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I have two schools of thought on this problem , but will be making a decision with the aid of my Vet, my instructor and other professionals. I am just interested in the views of other horsey people who can look objectively at my disaster.

I bought Kevin just over a year ago, he arrived, under muscled, no weight , no training. Yes a bit big but I felt comfortable on him and happy. I've hacked, I've schooled and done dressage. Up until the beginning of this year only one incident, involving a bog off and me denting the bonnet of some nice woman's car. Since the beginning of the year he has had a lameness and time off, coming back in to work he has taken to bogging off with me. Without warning , whoosh, gone. Up until last night I've stayed on and then carried on,with whatever I was doing. He has had all the checks, a new saddle and all he needs. Last night was a lesson with my instructor so I've had good, qualified profession help, not that I'm inexperienced. There has been no change of food, he has hay, fast fibre and low energy nuts. He is on mag oxide since a bog off on the road. He is spot on weight wise. We had planting episodes a month or so ago, which vanished with the new saddle. The bogging off is escalating and becoming dangerous ( my instructors words) Thanks to my air jacket i walked away from a fall where I've wiped out two sections of wooden fencing. There was no warning, I went from walk to halt transitions, to full pelt around the school, he was bunching up to run full tilt down the long side when I exited right.

Thoughts please?

Please forgive typos I have three broken fingers

Got this far , have a current bun
 

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First of all, how horrible for you and what a worry.

It's impossible to say. I would be getting the vet out, saddle fitter, back person and dentist. Rule everything out.

How recently did you get all the checks done?
 

Goldenstar

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A full problems with performance type workup from a vet that specialises in doing them is the right step now .
I would if he were mine try to keep him in some sort of work until it's done but without risking a fall ,lunging , leading from another horse that sort of thing ,walking exercise if he's safe walking in the school .
If the work up does not give an answer and the behaviour persists I would retire or PTS .
There's no point in getting smashed up .
 

Annagain

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Sorry to hear this, you sounded like you were doing so well with him, this is a very unwelcome setback. Obviously rule out all the usual stuff, but could it just be spring grass and a touch of the Kevins (pun intended!) If he came to you a bit underweight etc last year, could it just be that he's feeling much better this spring, especially seeing as he's had some time off? He's not on much feed, but I'd cut that right back just in case. Remind me how old he is?
 

Luci07

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So. As you already doing all the things you should be, what about thinking outside the box? This is a heavy horse so it might be worth messaging Adorable Alice for some advice or perhaps recommendations on trainers who specialise in dealing with heavy horses. I was always under the impression that heavy horses were placid and easy but on reading her thread, I now know that isn't the case. Just might help to get the input of someone who has brought on a big horse who has not been straightforward.
 

Equi

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Oh suki you poor thing. Bad Kevin!!!

I agree get the work up done again and make sure his feathers are all clear of anything too, any little nicks might be hurting.

Have you any breeders near by who would have more of an understanding of him? I know all horses technically should be the same in training or whatever but might be worth asking someone for a "bias" opinion rather than unbiased. They might pick up something about his confirmation or breeding that you didn't know about.

Failing that and if all checks are ok he might need to go to school!
 

Blurr

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I think Kevin's trying to tell you something. You say he's had all the checks, can you list them so that we don't suggest what you've done? Who are the 'other professionals' you will have to help?

I'd want to explore all available avenues to assure myself Kevin is not in pain (because I think he could be as he's been good before and I'd want to give him the benefit of the doubt) then reassess in the light of any new information and ultimately my decision would be based on whether or not I want to get back up there.

Sorry, forgot to add that I hope you feel better soon! :)
 

horsefeed

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When was the 1st bog off incident? When did the recent spate start?
I have a mare who is absolutely lush 9 months of the year, feb to April she is evil and full on bronks when you get on!! Lots of test done and money spend! Vet seems to think mixture of spring grass and seasons starting makes her muscle tense/sore, I try and lunge her 3 days a week and always lunge before I get on which helps a lot. But she is just weird this time of year!
 

Kezzabell2

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Agree with the others, he's defo trying to tell you something! but out of interest, how is he when he's hacking, schooling with other horses? does he do anything else, like pin his ears back if you ask him to trot on, how many times has he planted? my horse started planting when he hack spavins and when I didn't listen he started to rear, which scared me so much that I got the vet out! so I'm wondering if the planting was the first warning, maybe the saddle has helped a little but he's still hurting somewhere by tanking off he's trying to tell you somethings hurting.
 

LadySam

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Sorry to hear this, you sounded like you were doing so well with him, this is a very unwelcome setback. Obviously rule out all the usual stuff, but could it just be spring grass and a touch of the Kevins (pun intended!) If he came to you a bit underweight etc last year, could it just be that he's feeling much better this spring, especially seeing as he's had some time off? He's not on much feed, but I'd cut that right back just in case. Remind me how old he is?

My thoughts exactly, and I'd also like to know his age.
 

Wagtail

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This does not sound like a behaviour problem to me. It cries out a pain problem. Fresh horses do not just bog off full pelt with no warning out of walk. Fresh horses get more wound up, spooky and liable to try to run or buck as the pace increases. So moving up to trot from walk or more commonly, canter.
 

FfionWinnie

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I wouldn't care what the issue was I wouldn't get on the horse again.

Unpredictability is the problem here and you've already had two or three serious (potentially life limiting or ending!) accidents. Unless you are a complete novice and he is taking advantage which you say it is not, why would you risk it happening again.
 

Asha

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That must have been terrifying for you.

How old is he ? Did the lameness appear after you hit someones car ?

The spring grass is certainly having an effect on all mine at the minute. My daughters ID, who is normally angelic was a total nutter the other day, he took off with her a couple of times in the arena. She had to really ride him through it. Got there in the end, my lovely young mare who again, normally angelic went to try and take off with me too.

Like you we have done plenty of hacking over the winter, and I genuinely feel ours have come out of winter feeling quite fit, the spring grass has hit, and its crazy season. Could it be something similar ? you've built him up over the past year, and hes now feeling rather well ?

maybe lunge him before you get on, or even get your instructor to school him for a bit, and see what she thinks. They can then ride him through it, if it is just freshness ?

Stay safe x

just read your post again, missed the bit about you taking out the fence.

Id get a pro on him, that's not freshness, that's downright dangerous. See what a pro thinks and progress from there
 
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eggs

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I'm afraid the only horse I know that would suddenly just run blind without any warning or trigger was pts and found to have a brain tumour. However she also did it when she wasn't being ridden.
 

Pearlsasinger

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It sounds like pain to me. When a horse's behaviour changes like this, it is usually pain related ime. I would want the vet to be thinking about more in depoth checks than can be done on your yard. I would also cut his food right back, get rid of the fast fibre and pony nuts and just give ad lib hay. I know from personal experience that eating a food that you react to can cause nerve pain, which just gets worse and worse until you eliminate the food from the diet.
I had a mare who became completely unrideable until we stopped feeding her cereal and sugar. She looked perfectly normal.
 

Sukistokes2

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First of all, how horrible for you and what a worry.

It's impossible to say. I would be getting the vet out, saddle fitter, back person and dentist. Rule everything out.

How recently did you get all the checks done?

All checks done this year.
Dentist Feb
Saddler Feb
Chiro vet Jan / Feb, have been talking to her on and off
 

Sukistokes2

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Sorry to hear this, you sounded like you were doing so well with him, this is a very unwelcome setback. Obviously rule out all the usual stuff, but could it just be spring grass and a touch of the Kevins (pun intended!) If he came to you a bit underweight etc last year, could it just be that he's feeling much better this spring, especially seeing as he's had some time off? He's not on much feed, but I'd cut that right back just in case. Remind me how old he is?

Approx 11
 

Sukistokes2

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Agree with the others, he's defo trying to tell you something! but out of interest, how is he when he's hacking, schooling with other horses? does he do anything else, like pin his ears back if you ask him to trot on, how many times has he planted? my horse started planting when he hack spavins and when I didn't listen he started to rear, which scared me so much that I got the vet out! so I'm wondering if the planting was the first warning, maybe the saddle has helped a little but he's still hurting somewhere by tanking off he's trying to tell you somethings hurting.

He generally ignores other horses when ridden, he has such a gentle nature I have never seen him pin his ears, just look slightly put out.
 

wingedhorse

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All checks done this year.
Dentist Feb
Saddler Feb
Chiro vet Jan / Feb, have been talking to her on and off

You description sounds like a panic reaction to pain e.g. kissing spine / ulcers / nerve impingement.

I would probably look for a second opinion from another highly recommended bodyworker, and ask them to look out for any indications that might cause the above. I'd also get them to give an informal second opinion on saddle (most will)

I might follow that up with a vet visit and ask them to consider likely causes e.g. kissing spine / ulcers / nerve impingement.
 

Alibear

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Sounds like my lad when his KS showed up you have my sympathy it's horrible to sit on. With the planting then changing saddle and getting running off instead it also points to back. The new saddle may be a better normal fit but might just be catching him wrong on occasion hence the running off. Sorry, I hope you can get him sorted out whatever it is.
 

SO1

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Have you tried a bute trial?

It does sound like pain what was the cause of his lameness?. If he was fine and his behaviour has changed, something has changed and it means you need to work out what has changed, not easy to do. However I would not get back on him again until you know the cause of his problems as your instructor is right his behaviour is dangerous. If he is taking off from walk and it is not spookiness he is unpredictable and you could get hurt. How does he behave on the lunge or long reins?

If your instructor thinks the horse's behaviour is dangerous I doubt she is going to want to get on and risk getting hurt.
 

Sukistokes2

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Have you tried a bute trial?

It does sound like pain what was the cause of his lameness?. If he was fine and his behaviour has changed, something has changed and it means you need to work out what has changed, not easy to do. However I would not get back on him again until you know the cause of his problems as your instructor is right his behaviour is dangerous. If he is taking off from walk and it is not spookiness he is unpredictable and you could get hurt. How does he behave on the lunge or long reins?

If your instructor thinks the horse's behaviour is dangerous I doubt she is going to want to get on and risk getting hurt.

I'm not sure I would ask her too!!!
 

milliepops

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If your instructor thinks the horse's behaviour is dangerous I doubt she is going to want to get on and risk getting hurt.

yes agree. eta and I hope this at least gives you the confidence in your decisions to explore this further rather than keep trying to ride through it.

Sorry you've had this horrible experience OP, what a nasty shock and such a shame when he was making great progress. I also wouldn't be inclined to get back on until you get some answers, no point in getting seriously injured and sounds like you've had quite a lucky escape so far.

You mentioned your chiro is a vet? So I think it sounds like you're on the right track, next step for me would be a day at the vets clinic for a loss of performance workup. With an extreme reaction like that happening in different circumstances etc I wouldn't be faffing about trying different things at home tbh :/
 

cundlegreen

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You description sounds like a panic reaction to pain e.g. kissing spine / ulcers / nerve impingement.

I would probably look for a second opinion from another highly recommended bodyworker, and ask them to look out for any indications that might cause the above. I'd also get them to give an informal second opinion on saddle (most will)

I might follow that up with a vet visit and ask them to consider likely causes e.g. kissing spine / ulcers / nerve impingement.

I wouldn't muck about, I'd have xrays done of his back, and maybe a scan of the SSL. Won't cost much more than three visits from the chiro/physio, and you'll know exactly where you stand. I don't think this is a spring grass/ feed issue. I too, think it's pain related, or possibly a brain tumour, but that usually shows up as other strange behaviour. For goodness sake, get checks done before you try to ride him again. Good luck!
 

Tiddlypom

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My lovely late HW maxicob started doing similar, and was found to have bilateral hind PSD. He went to the vets, who was initially minded to think it was behavioural, but the lameness work up showed up the problem.

I think we sorted the PSD with box rest and controlled exercise, but he had multiple other problems, so I had to let him go in the end.

He ditched my instructor too. Walk to warp speed in the blink of an eye.

Good luck.
 

Goldenstar

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Bilateral hind psd does produce exactly the reaction OP describes in some horses.
I think another pair of eyes doing the workup might be a good idea .
 

SusieT

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ok so the all checks- I would go to a different vet than the chiro vet- I often find they are not good at resolving problems. I'd send him to a big equine hospital/ortho vet for full work up to find where the pain is. I'd expect back and hind legs to be thoroughly assessed.
If nothing there I'd send for a month of schooling with a suitable pro and if no luck I'd retire.

I don't think your work up so far is comprehensive enough tbh- talking to the vet is no good they need a performance work up and as I say - chiro vets imo are not as good as proper ortho work up vets.
 
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