Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Moomin you're so flipping self righteous you make my eyes ache.
WWYD/pay???
- Thread starter jhoward
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MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Many of us have to deal with drastic life changes and disabilities/illness/operations and manage to do so without it compromising the welfare of our horses in the most difficult of circumstances.
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
TBH I have no idea what this all has to do with your OH! Your horse, you made the arrangements before he came on the scene, and you're planning to pay your 'friend' with your own money. You have stated that you think 1k is fair, but OH disagrees. Frankly this wouldn't even be a discussion point in our house, though I might tell my husband in general conversation!
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
If you call not being stupid enough to leave my horse in the care of someone who is less than capable of looking after horses, and then not being bothered to make sure they are kept correctly, self righteous, then so be it.
I would rather be self righteous than idiotic.
Or a sheep for that matter...
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
I answered on my phone originally where I have no idea on a posters history, except for names I recognise - no image or easy link to see how many posts someone has made.
I answered as I would answer anyone, no matter who had posted that question.
Yes, I think a grand is fair.
No I don't think it's fair to say that the person has forced her hand to sell the horse.
No I don't think the care on either side (little weight loss and rainscald) makes any odds to that payment.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I am getting images of this field to be like Fort Knox! Why could the horse not be taken out of the field?! Was the fencing booby trapped or something? If you read my posts properly Armas you will see I have repeatedly said that OP MAY NOT have been able to take the horse out of the field herself, but that does not make her unable to simply arrange for someone else to does it?!
And surely, unless OP's eyes are in the palm of her damaged hand, she would be able to see weight loss over the fence?
Does OP not have a phone? Or any family members, or friends? Why was it so difficult to arrange for somebody to simply check the horse over? I am assuming that OP of course, given that she openly says she was feeding the horse herself most days, was not in a catatonic state during the time the horse got into the condition she seems dismayed about? Then I am afraid it's simply not good enough to say that she was 'injured' and unable to ensure the welfare of the horse she was feeding most days. Wouldn't cut it in law unfortunately.
Poor horse. Could have been a whole lot worse though...
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I am not interested in the payment side of things, I am just gobsmacked that somebody could use feeble excuses to justify not looking after their horse adequately. And then to have the gall to post about their friend on a public forum trying to lay all the blame on their doorstep too...
scarymare
Well-Known Member
It never ceases to amaze me the standards of horsey peeps when it comes to money. Most are quite happy to pay ££££'s for clinics, lessons and bling and yet penny pinch unreservedly when it comes to some other things whether vaccinations, shavings, care, etc. I pay the girl who 'does' for me at lunchtimes £12 per hour. She's OK but nothing special. Can you not work on that basis? £1000 seems about right to me tbh, I'm about £300 a month for mine and its just checks and feeding and taking the dog out.
Persephone
Well-Known Member
Is this the coloured "horse of a lifetime" that you wrote about before OP?
How come you will get a payout? I thought it was him that injured you?
How come you will get a payout? I thought it was him that injured you?
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I had a friend who was injured badly in a horse accident, and she couldn't get a pay out.
Suziq77
Well-Known Member
If I had an elephant I have little doubt that someone on here would have a box I could put it in
Sorry to hear you've ended up selling him OP, I know you thought a lot of him. Here's hoping it all works out for the best, things usually do but sometimes it takes a long time to see it....
Sorry to hear you've ended up selling him OP, I know you thought a lot of him. Here's hoping it all works out for the best, things usually do but sometimes it takes a long time to see it....
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
yes its my coloured lad, pay out is from a car accident in may, totally non related. and yes it was himself that caused the hand injury
pipe down next your be suggesting im suing the horse
now just to answer you moo, no i cant do a bloody gate thats held on by 2 lead ropes, thats just the summer field, the winter one has a gate that has a chain and lead rope then and electric fence which the box has to be disconnected, the post untied, now i can not do it with one hand whilst horse in same hand and 6 other horses also trying to come out. and id of been bloody stupid to of tried.
why could no one help, people work during the day why didnt i get friend to help? well then id not of needed to be going up and struggling in the first place if she was there/able to would i.
my attending the horse, was as and when i had a car which was not everyday.
horse went to friends, to take the pressure off me she was MENT to be caring for him.
my levels of care and hers have always been different, but here horses for being skinny iin winter covered in mudfever/rain scald dont die. they dont get ill. so because i was desperatly trying to not sell my lad i went with the ok so im not happy (which is why i didnt keep horses with her in the first place) but hes not going to die.
i didnt always know his rug was being left off etc as i was not there all the time
next post !!!!
Grinchmass
Well-Known Member
Personally I think you should remove the issue of the reason for sale and stop blaming friend for needing to sell. This isn't her fault, she has done you a favour for keeping him so long withough monthly/weekly livery payments. If she says he isn't safe to be out its her prerogative.
Issues of selling aside, give the friend the going rate for the livery hay and services, or there abouts. As another poster said grazing isn't free, fences don't maintain themselves, hay isn't free, horses don't do their own ground work!
The issue about the care standards being lacking is one which you were (I'm assuming from posts) aware of before he went to your friends, as such as the owner it is still your responsibility to ensure welfare while in friends care as much as possible, especially given the circumstances, desperate or not.
At the end of the day £1000 is cheap for 7 months field rent, hay, services AND groundwork with a youngster.
Whether your happy with the care or not, your friend did you a huge favour and you wouldn't have been able to keep him this long if you hadn't had her help. I'm not condoning his management but just pointing this out.
Just because you don't have your own land, and such your own place to keep him, does not mean its the friends fault for you having to sell.
Issues of selling aside, give the friend the going rate for the livery hay and services, or there abouts. As another poster said grazing isn't free, fences don't maintain themselves, hay isn't free, horses don't do their own ground work!
The issue about the care standards being lacking is one which you were (I'm assuming from posts) aware of before he went to your friends, as such as the owner it is still your responsibility to ensure welfare while in friends care as much as possible, especially given the circumstances, desperate or not.
At the end of the day £1000 is cheap for 7 months field rent, hay, services AND groundwork with a youngster.
Whether your happy with the care or not, your friend did you a huge favour and you wouldn't have been able to keep him this long if you hadn't had her help. I'm not condoning his management but just pointing this out.
Just because you don't have your own land, and such your own place to keep him, does not mean its the friends fault for you having to sell.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
yes its my coloured lad, pay out is from a car accident in may, totally non related. and yes it was himself that caused the hand injury
pipe down next your be suggesting im suing the horse
now just to answer you moo, no i cant do a bloody gate thats held on by 2 lead ropes, thats just the summer field, the winter one has a gate that has a chain and lead rope then and electric fence which the box has to be disconnected, the post untied, now i can not do it with one hand whilst horse in same hand and 6 other horses also trying to come out. and id of been bloody stupid to of tried.
why could no one help, people work during the day why didnt i get friend to help? well then id not of needed to be going up and struggling in the first place if she was there/able to would i.
my attending the horse, was as and when i had a car which was not everyday.
horse went to friends, to take the pressure off me she was MENT to be caring for him.
my levels of care and hers have always been different, but here horses for being skinny iin winter covered in mudfever/rain scald dont die. they dont get ill. so because i was desperatly trying to not sell my lad i went with the ok so im not happy (which is why i didnt keep horses with her in the first place) but hes not going to die.
i didnt always know his rug was being left off etc as i was not there all the time
next post !!!!
I struggle to understand your posts OP, they don't make any sense. Maybe it is because you are struggling to type.
What do you mean 'but here horses for being skinny iin winter covered in mudfever/rain scald dont die.'? Do you mean that her horses end up in this state every winter?
Also, I am still confused by the ..
'why could no one help, people work during the day why didnt i get friend to help? well then id not of needed to be going up and struggling in the first place if she was there/able to would i.
' and the..
'horse went to friends, to take the pressure off me she was MENT to be caring for him.'
Who exactly WAS taking responsibility for this horse. It seems like an absolute shambles. One minute you say she was meant to be caring for the horse, to take the pressure off you, then you say that she wasn't there/able to help, the next?!
You conveniently have an awful lot of feeble excuses OP. You are both responsible for the condition your horse ended up in.
If I were you the last thing I would be doing is advertising my lack of care to my horse on a public forum.
PS - an awful lot of horse owners work during the day. They don't let their horses get into states just because of it...
WelshD
Well-Known Member
This absolutely.
I've always loved hearing about your riding and your lovely horses and I am so sorry you have had such setbacks.
As for the money I would see £1K as cheap livery and despite the problems I think I would just close my eyes, take a deep breath and hand it over. If its too little I am sure your friend will say something, if it is too much I am sure she will appreciate it.
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
thankyou both, moomin im just going to ignore you rising to you is a waste of battery tbh. If you however have anything constructive to say then crack on im more than willing to listen.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I won't even waste my breath anymore JH. People like you will always try and make excuses for their shoddy care standards and never take any responsibility for their actions (or lack of in your sorry case).
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Ok read first bit and confused. Now I see you're selling.
Ok here's the thing. There seems to be many of these threads lately. Friends keeping horses and it doesn't work out. Easy to always blame owner, but seriously, if you take a horse for a friend then start doing what you say you're going to do. Obviously I'm directing this at all the so called friends that have been "kind" enough to take horses. Some are paid later, some are paid in time. Thing is as the person who's going to be looking after said horse, than bloody do it. I'm sorry, money does not come into it when apparently horses are suffering! Money between the people but you can't tell yourself it's ok to half starve something because you're not getting paid. Don't take the darn horse in the first place.
I'm just puzzled by these threads. Blame owner and yet WTF is wrong with people who take horses and then decide, ehhh can't be bothered because...... See I would take in a horse for a friend even if I would be slow in getting paid. I would have a reality talk about what I'd want and how worming, feet, and routine stuff they would need to pay. But it's my risk. I can't in the middle of it decide, well I'm not getting paid so horsie suffers. If I get screwed so be it. That's life and I won't rush to help again.
Now horse is hungry, covered in rain scald, and stuck in a stable for 2 months!!!! How is that logical? Covered in rain scald because no doubt had his rug put back on when he was covered in mud. Great horsekeeping skills there. I have electric fencing here. Blankets haven't been an issue but a crappy fence always is. I check ours weekly. Low power needs sorted ASAP. Mine is always hot hot hot. It has to be.
Sorry I really struggle with this "owner always in the wrong" crap! No matter what the situation, if you agree to care for a horse you CARE FOR THE HORSE! End of. I don't care about the money side. As I said if I get burned my fault. Not the horse. Don't agree to something you can't do.
Terri
Ok here's the thing. There seems to be many of these threads lately. Friends keeping horses and it doesn't work out. Easy to always blame owner, but seriously, if you take a horse for a friend then start doing what you say you're going to do. Obviously I'm directing this at all the so called friends that have been "kind" enough to take horses. Some are paid later, some are paid in time. Thing is as the person who's going to be looking after said horse, than bloody do it. I'm sorry, money does not come into it when apparently horses are suffering! Money between the people but you can't tell yourself it's ok to half starve something because you're not getting paid. Don't take the darn horse in the first place.
I'm just puzzled by these threads. Blame owner and yet WTF is wrong with people who take horses and then decide, ehhh can't be bothered because...... See I would take in a horse for a friend even if I would be slow in getting paid. I would have a reality talk about what I'd want and how worming, feet, and routine stuff they would need to pay. But it's my risk. I can't in the middle of it decide, well I'm not getting paid so horsie suffers. If I get screwed so be it. That's life and I won't rush to help again.
Now horse is hungry, covered in rain scald, and stuck in a stable for 2 months!!!! How is that logical? Covered in rain scald because no doubt had his rug put back on when he was covered in mud. Great horsekeeping skills there. I have electric fencing here. Blankets haven't been an issue but a crappy fence always is. I check ours weekly. Low power needs sorted ASAP. Mine is always hot hot hot. It has to be.
Sorry I really struggle with this "owner always in the wrong" crap! No matter what the situation, if you agree to care for a horse you CARE FOR THE HORSE! End of. I don't care about the money side. As I said if I get burned my fault. Not the horse. Don't agree to something you can't do.
Terri
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
Owner was attending most days. Owner failed to prevent or even spot that her horse was deteriorating. Owner's responsibility and fault, as well as friend's simple. If I asked my friend to look after my horse, but was attending most days myself to feed also, I could not then just lay the blame on said friend two months later when horse is covered in rainscald, thin, and mud fever. I would have a duty of care still. Owner also was aware that friend's horses ended up in poor condition every winter, and had the RSPCA visit a number of times. So it's reasonable that she allowed her horse to be under this person's care, without making sure that the horse was checked thoroughly whilst under her care? Come on, I don't think so.
I'm afraid the law would lay the hammer down on both the owner and the friend in this one if that horse suffered.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
I don't care about the law of whose right and wrong. Morality says I agreed to take care of horse and I bloody well will. She was there and said she couldn't do much nor take rugs on and off. Again, if I'm keeping a horse for someone, I just have to do what I say I'm going to do. Even if someone were on a DIY situation, which I'd never do, I'm checking any horse on my property. I'm not going to just leave it.
I'm sure I'm just a bit thick but I'm not interested in why it all went wrong. It shouldn't have gone wrong. You take a horse in for someone who really physically can't do the day to day so you have to do the right thing by the horse. Look we all know the horse didn't get rain scald from the rain. He got scald from just throwing that rug back on a dirt covered muddy horse. Owners fault? I have electric fencing. My horses have rugs. The only time the integrity of the fence is in question is if its not on full power. Or it's in a field with unsuitable company and gets run through. I've had issues with horses and the fence and always one of those 2. Now horse is stall bound.
I don't get it. People love to be the hero. But only if horse lives on air and you really never know they're there.
I'm not saying owner shouldn't have moved him but why take on horses knowing there is probably going to be some work involved in keeping them right. If its a hassle, keep the friend and say no.
But I really don't care whose right or wrong. You agree to care for a horse than do it. Don't make excuses.
Terri
I'm sure I'm just a bit thick but I'm not interested in why it all went wrong. It shouldn't have gone wrong. You take a horse in for someone who really physically can't do the day to day so you have to do the right thing by the horse. Look we all know the horse didn't get rain scald from the rain. He got scald from just throwing that rug back on a dirt covered muddy horse. Owners fault? I have electric fencing. My horses have rugs. The only time the integrity of the fence is in question is if its not on full power. Or it's in a field with unsuitable company and gets run through. I've had issues with horses and the fence and always one of those 2. Now horse is stall bound.
I don't get it. People love to be the hero. But only if horse lives on air and you really never know they're there.
I'm not saying owner shouldn't have moved him but why take on horses knowing there is probably going to be some work involved in keeping them right. If its a hassle, keep the friend and say no.
But I really don't care whose right or wrong. You agree to care for a horse than do it. Don't make excuses.
Terri
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
So I take it you would leave your horse with someone who you know keeps hers in poor condition each winter, and has the RSPCA around? And you wouldn't bother getting someone else to check on your horse whilst it was in their care?
I have already said that this friend is responsible too, I am not saying they aren't. I am saying that OP has been extremely stupid and that she cannot lay all the blame at this person's doorstep.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Obviously not. I searched yards last year so I could earn money faster in the States to get everyone back home. I decided the slower option was the only way. Because at the end of the day I could not find one person I'd trust to take my money for the proper care of my horses. I really don't trust too many people. But what I'm saying is if you agree to take someone's horse than look after it. No excuses. Don't let horse suffer. That's it. That's all I'm saying. This isn't the first thread like this is it? Nope loads of do gooder a out there being a "friend" and horse suffers. Just say nope, no room. Or nope I can't do it for no pay, or nope I value our friendship.
Ok owner should never have put her horse there as these people sound like morons, but there's the other side too. Just say no. Don't take the horse if you're going to let him suffer. That is all.
Terri
Ok owner should never have put her horse there as these people sound like morons, but there's the other side too. Just say no. Don't take the horse if you're going to let him suffer. That is all.
Terri
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you.
I think said friend should take a long hard look at her standards of care, and I also think the owner should too. Neither of them sound suitable to own horses if that sort of situation is allowed to transpire.
I hope OP has learnt a very harsh lesson and she will be more careful who she hands her horses too in future. It strikes me that OP is not willing to hold her hands up and accept any responsibility whatsoever though.
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
aug time we had no idea how long recovery would take, as much as i knew it was months it was expected id be a lot better, no one knew at the time the extent of said injury or that i would have to wait a further near 6 months for a second op (i have a dislocated finger now as a result of first op, that has to be pinned back and it transpires that when i had the 1st op they stitched my finger to tight which stops me being able to straighten it. i have little grip in my hand and one finger stuffed and one that doesnt do much...) so basically i hoped by winter id be in a different position hence taking friends offer. life didnt go that way. barring putting him on full livery i had little options and of course injury means im on benefits so money has been a huge factor.
and before any one jumps on me for that little gem this was my horse of a life time and means everything to me, ive tried my hardest to be able to keep him.
yes i knew what friend was like but as i say her animals are all fine they dont die dont get lame, dont get illnesses etc. so one winter of my lads life roughing it wasn't going to kill him. id never had him live out all year so again couldn't of foreseen how he would cope.
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
no moomin to a large degree im not, friend knew i could not look after horse she knew this when she took him it was half the reason he went there, she also knew the financial side of things.
one of the reasons she said she would get him backed was to give me half a chance of being able to ride him even if it was one handed.
a friend helping a friend, as i have done her in the past. no i didnt expect my horse to end up a scab monster cause of him going through a fence.. because he was hungry and cold. i never knew what she was doing with the rug on and off until after, at which point i bought new batteries for her electric fencing. and tried to feed as much as i could.
at the end of the day horse came in, ive struggled everyday to muck out, and get him out for a leg stretch ive struggled financially, im lucky to have a oh that has supported me. and at the end of the day ive done whats best for the horse. i havnt even sold him for the sake of the money far from it.
im very your glad your so perfect, and that lifes never yet dealt you a real crappy hand. (no pun intended
)Moomin1
Well-Known Member
Forgive me for being confused yet again, but I thought you said friend's horse's were thin, with rainscald and mudfever throughout each winter? So how can they be 'fine, not lame, no illnesses' all of a sudden? I thought you said you knew your friend to be a 'tad slack' welfare wise, and that she had the RSPCA visit a few times?
Then again, I suppose so long as a horse doesn't 'die' under someone's care then it's all good, doesn't matter about the standard of care it is kept in.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Good lord OP, I certainly wouldn't trust a person with such low standards of horse keeping to start my horse. Being really hungry and skinny and not in the best health makes for very easy horses.
Look I know you have issues. We've all got some problems really. But this really wasn't fair to your horse. I mean not dying and not being lame are hardly big deals in keeping horses. You need to move him as soon as you can. And when he's back in decent shape get someone else to spend two weeks with your horse making sure he's as safe when feeling well. Last thing you need is getting tossed as soon as you get better.
Terri
Look I know you have issues. We've all got some problems really. But this really wasn't fair to your horse. I mean not dying and not being lame are hardly big deals in keeping horses. You need to move him as soon as you can. And when he's back in decent shape get someone else to spend two weeks with your horse making sure he's as safe when feeling well. Last thing you need is getting tossed as soon as you get better.
Terri
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