WWYD: Rescue dog, hand her back or what?

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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We've got a rescue dog (bitch). Her passport says she's two but we think she's actually a lot younger than this, that she's actually still in the puppy/playful stage. Apparently she was picked up as a stray in Cyprus and flown over here by a charity which rehomes dogs from Cyprus.

We saw her first in her foster home and walked our existing dog and her together both there and here (on the lead, obviously). No problems, everyone got on fine. So we brought her home six weeks ago.

She gets on fine with our existing dog, they play together, plus is OK with the cat (has realised that play not a good idea!). She does chew stuff, but we're dealing with that by giving her something of her own to chew plus spraying what we deffo DON'T want her to chew with anti-chew stuff. So hopefully that's in hand. She's a PITA in the car as jumps around, but again we're hopefully sorting that by getting a crate with a divider so we can not only separate both dogs but also give her some "safe" space for herself where she can't see out and therefore feels safe.

So what's the problem I hear you ask?

She will not, repeat NOT, come back to recall. We've tried having her on a long extending lead and using that to try and train her (using a reward and trying to utilise her pleasure at play); also she'll come back OK in a small space like the garden or small yard. BUT, and here is the big "but"........ we've got a 10 acre field - and one or two times when I've had her off the lead and she's been quite happy with other dog, playing, she's then slipped out under the gate and out into the big field. Of course, its all mega-play to her, but this morning she would NOT come back and when I went down to try and get her back she just took one look at me and ran away from me!!! It was blatent and willful disobedience, am trying to be charitable, but that was what it was :( She eventually came back when the other dog joined up with her and played together....... and then she realised that woops I was there and she'd better come to me. But this was after about forty minutes of blatent disobedience where frankly I did wonder if she'd just run off and I'd never see her again, which is horrid, and worrying.

We've tried with this dog, we really have. Yes we realise its all play to her, and 10 acres of space to jump around in is huge fun. But we've got 100 sheep (not ours, someone else's) coming in that field at the end of the month, and we can't have a situation like we've had this morning.

The alternative is to keep the dog on a lead (or extending lead even) at ALL times when she's on the place; and when I'm doing the horses she'll have to be tied up in the yard so won't be able to go anywhere. That's not what I'd intended for her. When I'm at home and doing stuff I like to have a trusting set-up with the dogs running loose with me as I work outside and do stuff around the farm and not have to be restricted and on a lead. Which is why I'm seriously wondering if we should ask the rehoming charity to take her back :(

In all other ways she's ideal for us. Little Dog has just about got used to her and would no doubt miss her........... but this recall and blatent disobedience issue is becoming a real difficulty. If we're going to give up on her, it needs to be now/in the immediate future, as Little Dog would miss her too much if we let too much time go by, plus it is becoming ever more heartbreaking for us.

So........... any suggestions welcome.

PLEASE no nasty comments. We've done our best to rehome a needy little dog and are facing what might be a heartbreaking decision; so don't need anyone beating us up emotionally about "failing" her. But perhaps there would be a better home for her somewhere else where she'd never be in such a tempting position with all that space just calling for her.......

So peeps, WWYD, hand her back? or what?
 
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It's only six weeks, not long to get recall established in a street dog. I suggest you work on that and in the meantime don't let her off the lead. If that means tieing up on the yard then tie her up on the yard. If you hand her back then someone else will have to work on her recall as well if she's to be walked off lead by anyone.

FWIW I am having similar with my new dog. We'll be working through it and at the moment she is not left free to run off, she can stay with me loose whilst I am able to give her constant attention but as soon as I am liekly to be distracted she's either penned or tied up.
 
Six weeks is nothing! Seriously, I think you need to reconsider your expectations. You barely know her, and vice versa.

It is possible to train a rescue to recall (I have done it) but you need to put in a lot of time and effort. So you either need to commit to that and seek the help you need, or give her back.

If you're going to give her back, do it sooner rather than later, before she settles down with your family even more.
 
6 weeks is nothing actually. It's taken me 2 years with one little dog to get the "wrinkles" ironed out. We had a similar problem with a rescue whippet some years ago. She was a little devil for not coming back. One afternoon hubby lost the plot and left her and came home. I was appalled and said we had to go back for her, so off we trooped and there was madam sitting in the last place she'd seen him. Hubby didn't look at her or speak to her and I put her on the lead and we took her home. Hubby wouldn't make any contact with her for the next 24 hours. When he did she went wild with excitement and has NEVER left his side again. Unreal it really was. So you could try all decamping off and waiting to see if that has any effect. I wouldn't do it yet though, 6 weeks isn't long to establish any kind of bond. Good luck and don't give up yet.
 
Six weeks is no time at all to change the habits of a stray dog. I know most people think dogs need to run off lead every day but things are different with dogs who may well have been feral. Your first priority is to keep her safe, and to protect anything that could be a potential prey.
She can be off lead in safely fenced areas. The rest of the time you keep her attached to something. A friend of mine who works with horses and takes her dogs to work uses a ten metre training line attached to a harness for her young beagle. You also work on her recall, get the book "Total Recall" and follow the steps outlined in it. Training has to start in small areas without distractions, then later you add mild distractions, then more challenging ones, and so on. But it takes time and planning. You would have been extremely lucky to get a stray rescue with good recall in the big outdoors, she sounds great otherwise, so worth putting a bit of work into her. Good luck.
 
As the others have said, you have only had her 6 weeks, she is just finding her feet. You also have to bear in mind that she was semi feral when she was younger, so she is always going to be harder to train. Personally I would never rehome in this way, as I have seen problems with ex street dogs being aloof and non responsive before, but that is for another discussion.

Dogs do not think like humans, so she is not being wilful, she does not understand what is required, remember how much freedom she had as a young dog and how nice that was for her. Harness and longline ( not extendable lead) and lots of rewards ( yummy treats, play with a toy/praise) when she comes back of her own choice, if she does not then just gently reel her back to you and praise her for doing so. She needs to learn that you are the best thing in the world and that coming back to you is great, it will then become an ingrained response.

You have to decide how much effort you can put into her training, it won't be a quick fix. I would be contacting a trainer to help you and assess what is going on, they would also help you make a decision on whether you are the right family for her. The sheep arriving would be a big concern for me.

Edited to add - also look at whistle training, it would be different for her from you calling her name and takes the emotion out of the recall, so even if you are really cross with her, she won't know that from a couple of peeps on a whistle !
 
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Teaselmeg said:
Edited to add - also look at whistle training, it would be different for her from you calling her name and takes the emotion out of the recall, so even if you are really cross with her, she won't know that from a couple of peeps on a whistle !
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Yes thanks for this! I've made my self hoarse this morning calling after her :)

Think the idea of a trainer is worth considering.......... so will pursue this one.
 
So have you contacted the rescue for advice at all and if so what did they say? what about the previous fosterer, I would be upset if I was the fosterer and you hadnt contacted me.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Yes thanks for this! I've made my self hoarse this morning calling after her :)

Think the idea of a trainer is worth considering.......... so will pursue this one.
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In your situation I would stop calling her, it's teaching her nothing except to ignore you. Try and go for long walks somewhere safe and don't stop....I'm assuming your other dog will just follow you so trust that your new dog will do the same. You need to build a relationship with her where she wants to follow you and your other dog. She won't want to be left and if you find yourself in a situation where you need to get her attention then just call her and walk on. She will go with you !
 
I can highly recommend a book called 'total recall' which gives you a step by step guide to perfecting recall. It advises when to move to the next step and tells you what to do when things go wrong!
 
We got two rescue dogs and it has taken us 6 months to get the recall right and even now sometimes they get the devil in them and run off. Get yourself a good dog trainer where other dogs are doing the same and it will come. As daft as it may sound she may not understand you either!!! As said don't keep calling her if she's ignoring you just walk off with your other dog and hopefully she'll get the message. Unless there's other issues and we had loads I wouldn't send her back just yet.
 
6 weeks is no time at all, I can't imagine that she has ever been taught to recall so it isn't wilful disobedience, it is just not knowing what is expected and having no reason yet to want to come back. Longlines are invaluable in this situation and far better than an extending lead. If she can escape into the field then clip a longline on before she goes in the garden just in case - that way if she does manage to get loose you don't have to get anywhere near her to just pick up the end of the line and you have her safe.
Change your expectations and timescale and it sounds like you'd have a cracking little dog, but you need to be fair to her and take her right back to scratch, bonding, playing, helping her learn how to be trained and helping her build trust in you and not just rely on your other dog. If you don't have the time or inclination to do this then yes, take her back, but bear in mind that you'd be lucky to get any dog that you could let off safely so soon after adoption so if she is perfect in every other way then surely she is worth sticking by and working with? Definitely find a good and understanding reward based trainer, I'm sure you can turn it round if you look at it from her point of view and less from the view of frustrated human :-)
 
Make the smaller area fully secure for a start. Keep her on a long line until it is. Then she can run and play in there until the recall is sorted. It might never be sorted btw, but dogs cope surprisingly well on long lines with sufficient effort to make it interesting for them. Eldest dog lived a contented and safe thirteen years this way. Ginger dog would have needed the same lifestyle, sadly he had a brain lesion and had to be PTS aged two.

When training recall, try running or walking off in the opposite direction from her when she legs it instead of calling her.
 
Firstly I would secure your garden so she can't slip out into the field when she fancies. You definitely don't want her in with the sheep. We used the Total Recall book with a previous dog and it worked well for us. Until then, use a lunge line if you have one and keep her on it. It's an absolute pain, but while you're training it's a necessity.
 
My rescue dog was the exact same. It took about 6-7 months for him to calm down and realise this is his home now. I took him to the beach a week ago and he came back every time and even when he had seen another dog. I would not be writing her off yet.
 
Having had a rescue lurcher and knowing someone who has two, dogs that have been shown any aggression when not coming to recall are the hardest. Would you come back if someone had beat the c**p out of you? They will run round doing puppy stuff but really its just submissive behaviour covering up insecurity. Six weeks is no time, make your garden secure and until you have a better bond leave the off lead stuff.
It the most frustrating thing when they will not come back but however long it takes you make a fuss, try and never sound angry. My old boy I had for 8 years and it got to the point where 98% of the time he would come back but if he got frightened the fear of being walloped took over and I could spend an hour trying to pick him up with an open car door. He once got out of the house and we did not know.Two policemen and the dog warden and two hours later they could not catch him, they had so scared him he came home and straight to me and the sofa we all thought he was still laid on in the other room.
 
Echo the advice to keep her off lead only in the garden for now (it is dog proof, I take it?).

Our garden (half an acre) plus the land (another 7 acres) are actually now dog proof. We tend to have JRTs which love to go off hunting. It's so much more relaxing knowing that they can't escape even if they put a rabbit up. We have a mix of chicken wire on post and rail fence, and rabbit electric netting.

Your new dog sounds so suitable in other respects, that it would be a great shame to give up now.

You must have robust plans in place before the sheep come, though.
 
She sounds like a poppet. It would be a shame to give her back after such a short time. My friends got a Greyhound and very nearly sent it back as it had huge separation anxiety and howled the house down even if left for 10 mins! but now they have persevered and can leave her on her own for a short time. It did take nearly a year to sort out but she is such a lovely dog they are very glad they persevered. Please give her some more time before you give up!
 
Do not try having her loose anywhere but in a fenced area please. Dogs who have been feral will NOT come after you when you walk off until you have established an unbreakable bond with them. Several such rescue dogs have gone awol around here (New Forest) and have either been found dead on a road or never been found at all. That was after being with fosterers/owners for several weeks and they had other bonded dogs with them when it happened.
 
I think you are in a very difficult position. I agree with everyone who says that this will take much more time before you get recall. The question you have to ask yourself is "do I have the time". I dont mean that you maybe just cant be bothered, I mean do you have the time to work on this before disaster strikes. It does sound as if she is not quite the dog you wanted, this is always a risk with a rescue, you never know quite what you are getting when you dont know the whole story, but you know that! Given the situation you describe, sheep close by, wanting the dog to be able to wander round the yard with you etc Ill be perfectly honest and say that I think I would return her. I just think she might be better off in a more controlled area, somewhere where she wont get quite as much space or freedom. Im not suggesting she goes and lives in a flat somewhere, just someone who can give her more lead exercise, whats that sport where you run with your dog attached to you?? Someone like that maybe, so she still gets the care and attention, but not the opportunity to run off. No doubt in will come with time, the risk with you is that something could go horribly wrong if the recall fails and it sounds as if it is a long term training schedule. A lady we meet on our walks has 2 Cypriot street rescue dogs, both fab little dogs. She has had them for about 4 years now, 1 had almost perfect recall straight away, the other 1 is almost there now, still has the odd lapse where she just seems to switch off and forget the owner is there. Good luck with making a decision, tough call x
 
Some good advice and food for thought from MyBoyChe. A couple of other things I would add.....

I believe in an earlier post you said she was a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever??? If so, it is likely that she was a failed bird dog in Cyprus, which could be for a multitude of reasons and was probably dumped. Consequently, her hunt instinct will have been encouraged when working and she will likely have been self-employed hunting/scavenging whilst feral. This is a LOT of 'history' to overcome to make her into the sort of dog it sounds that you want.

For a dog like this I would only ever feed her from my hand. There would be no food in bowls; she would have to recall to me for every single piece of food, such that she begins to learn that I am the provider. Harness and long line to reinforce at all times. Whistle is a good idea too, as is consistant in tone and does not exhibit emotion/annoyance.

I would also try and capitalise on her retrieve instinct....assuming she runs true to breed type and has a good work ethic. If she finds retrieving fun, use this to make her think you are the centre of her universe by providing her with retrieves.

Keep her in an enclosed area if you must let her loose; personally I would even have a line on her in such an environment too so that I could reinforce any recall. If you need more physical exercise for her, consider swimming (Tollers love that in my experience!) or treadmill, but often mental exercise works as well if not better, so I would consider clicker with her as a possible.

Good luck!
 
Thanks "gunnergundog"; yes she is supposed to be a Tolling Retriever; and her love of water and birds would tend to indicate this indeed.

I think your suggestion of feeding from the hand with no food in bowls might well be the way forward...... at least for the immediate future.

Also the whistle suggestion is something that we shall be trying; will think about clicker as well.

She is a lovely little dog and ideal in every other way and it would be an awful shame to hand her back. This is a very very last option as I believe that she does genuinely want to please.

Our last dog (rescue) was off the lead the first day she was here, bless her. Looks like this one is gonna be a tad more challenging.
 
Not sure where abouts in Devon you are and not sure if you want to go down the gundog route, but, regardless, someone worth a phone call vaguely in your area would be Steve Kimberley http://www.kimberleygundogs.com/

I only fell into gundog training many, many years ago as someone sold me a dog that quote' was the one out of the litter that wouldn't make a working gundog!' Yeh, right! :D Never believe Germans where HPRs are concerned!
 
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Our last dog (rescue) was off the lead the first day she was here, bless her. Looks like this one is gonna be a tad more challenging.[/QUOTE]

That horrifies me, I would never advise anyone to let a rescue dog off lead for at least 2 weeks, the dog would not have bonded with you and you were lucky to get away with that.
 
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