Wwyd

[Ceriann]

Mare is 14 and is struggling with soundness. She’s previously recovered from a medial branch suspensory injury (left hind) a few years ago but has always struggled with front feet issues (she has flat thin soles and runs long toes/contracted heels) and now has v mild arthritic changes in her hocks. She’s a low level performance worry as opposed to obviously/acutely lame and is still good to hack out (albeit our hacks are pretty sedate). Vet has seen her a few times so I have vet advice/options. I have waited post summer to consider best options to treat her to reduce the risk of lami if we choose to medicate the hocks. She is currently in v light work and is now mainly walked in hand to keep her fit/moving - she gets one Bute a day too. The feet are a constant management and she’s once again out of shoes (and has been for 6 months) and will stay that way as long as it doesn’t restrict her work. The plan is to medicate the hocks in the next few weeks (I am now leaning toward arthramid), which vet tells me should improve her hind movement. She does however continue to have mild intermittent lameness in front, mainly her near fore. I don’t want to medicate hind to find the biggest issue is her near fore but diagnosing front limb lameness with her is tricky as it’s so intermittent. I need to make some decisions and I think I need to work out (as far as possible - I’m not insured so I wouldn’t go as far as an mri) the cause of the near fore lameness and if that’s manageable go forward with that and hind medication but if not call it a day and semi/retire her. She’s the loveliest, sweetest horse and I desperately want to fix her (as riding her when she’s on form is all I want) but not at any cost. Any advice, thoughts or similar experiences welcomed.

 

[dorsetladette]

I feel for you.

Have you spoken to the vet regarding the rehab after the hock medication? My first thought is that her front feet might let her down when it comes to the rehab.

A good farrier should be able to sort underrun heels and long toes. You should see improvement after a couple of trims. If this is a continuous issue I'd suggest you look for an alternative farrier. And I have found (as a rule of thumb) an older farrier with experience and wisdom work wonders with wonky/not textbook feet.

 

[Birker2020]

Mare is 14 and is struggling with soundness. She’s previously recovered from a medial branch suspensory injury (left hind) a few years ago but has always struggled with front feet issues (she has flat thin soles and runs long toes/contracted heels) and now has v mild arthritic changes in her hocks. She’s a low level performance worry as opposed to obviously/acutely lame and is still good to hack out (albeit our hacks are pretty sedate). Vet has seen her a few times so I have vet advice/options. I have waited post summer to consider best options to treat her to reduce the risk of lami if we choose to medicate the hocks. She is currently in v light work and is now mainly walked in hand to keep her fit/moving - she gets one Bute a day too. The feet are a constant management and she’s once again out of shoes (and has been for 6 months) and will stay that way as long as it doesn’t restrict her work. The plan is to medicate the hocks in the next few weeks (I am now leaning toward arthramid), which vet tells me should improve her hind movement. She does however continue to have mild intermittent lameness in front, mainly her near fore. I don’t want to medicate hind to find the biggest issue is her near fore but diagnosing front limb lameness with her is tricky as it’s so intermittent. I need to make some decisions and I think I need to work out (as far as possible - I’m not insured so I wouldn’t go as far as an mri) the cause of the near fore lameness and if that’s manageable go forward with that and hind medication but if not call it a day and semi/retire her. She’s the loveliest, sweetest horse and I desperately want to fix her (as riding her when she’s on form is all I want) but not at any cost. Any advice, thoughts or similar experiences welcomed.

Did the vet say there was a chance she could have arthritis in the coffin joints? That is quite a likely scenario, given that she is probably over compensating due to her hocks onto her front feet and due to the conformation of her front feet. This kind of conformation will exacerbate any lameness issues anyway.

Its easy to see if this is the case with a few xrays which would be considerably cheaper than an MRI and an MRI will only show soft tissue anyway and not highlight arthritis.

If you want her to have arthamid in her hocks you can get the coffin joints done at the same time as there is no risk of steroid induced laminitis as there is with normal intra articular joint injections. It is costly (to be fair very costly) but would probably save money overall if you got both problems looked at and treated at the same time. With Bailey I got the coffin joints and navicular bursa medicated at the same time with the Arthramid and the amount used was split between the three because I wasn't insured and was self funding too.

Then maybe a bit of good farriery like Dorsetladette suggested.

 

[Ceriann]

I feel for you.

Have you spoken to the vet regarding the rehab after the hock medication? My first thought is that her front feet might let her down when it comes to the rehab.

A good farrier should be able to sort underrun heels and long toes. You should see improvement after a couple of trims. If this is a continuous issue I'd suggest you look for an alternative farrier. And I have found (as a rule of thumb) an older farrier with experience and wisdom work wonders with wonky/not textbook feet.

Thanks - my farrier is pretty good in fairness and I should have said she’s out of shoes again on his advice. She has a tendency to grow long toes/contracted heels but he’s managing it and it’s improving with shoes off again. The angles are poor on X-ray (flat not negative), which are a management issue and soles are so thin. Vet never thought she’d cope out of shoes but she does!

 

[Ceriann]

Did the vet say there was a chance she could have arthritis in the coffin joints? That is quite a likely scenario, given that she is probably over compensating due to her hocks onto her front feet and due to the conformation of her front feet. This kind of conformation will exacerbate any lameness issues anyway.

Its easy to see if this is the case with a few xrays which would be considerably cheaper than an MRI and an MRI will only show soft tissue anyway and not highlight arthritis.

If you want her to have arthamid in her hocks you can get the coffin joints done at the same time as there is no risk of steroid induced laminitis as there is with normal intra articular joint injections. It is costly (to be fair very costly) but would probably save money overall if you got both problems looked at and treated at the same time. With Bailey I got the coffin joints and navicular bursa medicated at the same time with the Arthramid and the amount used was split between the three because I wasn't insured and was self funding too.

Then maybe a bit of good farriery like Dorsetladette suggested.

She had feet x-rays circa 9 months ago and nothing obvious other than the flat angles and thin soles. Her feet are x-rayed annually. Vet is confident front lameness is feet so I will discuss this again and whether another set of x-rays might be an idea.

Did yours have coffin joint etc indicators before medicating? I am leaning toward arthramid because of reduced risk and longevity. It also very much feels like my last ditch attempt to get her sound.

 

[meleeka]

Do you supplement for hoof health? I think If she were mine I’d medicate hocks and continue to work on improving the quality of her feet. Taking shoes off should improve them long term anyway.

 

[live2ride]

Mine presents as lame in his front right fore when he is bilaterally lame behind, from throwing his weight on the forehand to offload the hinds. But once we treated/get the hinds comfortable/sound again, the fore sorts itself. And having scanned/xrayed the front leg nothing is clinically wrong with it.

He's never head nodding lame on the front leg, but a little short in movement

 

[SpeedyPony]

If the changes in her hocks are mild, I'd probably be inclined to try steroid first- I was looking at gel for one of mine, but the vet mentioned that if you go for gel and the joint gets infected it can't be flushed like a joint medicated with steroid could. The risk is still minimal, but I decided that I'd try steroid first and if that improved matters the risk and cost of gel would be more justifiable. (As it happens, after we x-rayed it turned out it wasn't his hocks that were the problem, so they didn't get injected with anything)

 

[Birker2020]

Did yours have coffin joint etc indicators before medicating? I am leaning toward arthramid because of reduced risk and longevity. It also very much feels like my last ditch attempt to get her sound.

My horse only had them done four times in 15 years. When I expressed surprise about the length of time between treatments the vet said its not unheard of for some horses to respond very well and not need them doing very frequently at all.

It was like bute, she used to cope very well on that too, she weighed over 700kg but only needed half a sachet of bute daily for about 7 years. The vet said he knew a shire that coped well on 1/4 sachet, although I used to find it a mission to split one in half never mind in 4!!

I guess like humans, they all have their own pain thresholds.

 

[Griffin]

I agree with @meleeka and I would look at improving her hoof quality as well as medicating her hocks. Hopefully, if you can improve her hooves, that will help with her soundness in the long-term. Feedmark's Hardy Hoof (if I remember rightly) works.

 

[Ceriann]

Do you supplement for hoof health? I think If she were mine I’d medicate hocks and continue to work on improving the quality of her feet. Taking shoes off should improve them long term anyway.

Yes pro hoof (it’s fun getting her to eat it all!). We did 9 months out of shoes during rehab for suspensory but she’s coped much better this time so plan is to keep her bare.

 

[Ceriann]

Mine presents as lame in his front right fore when he is bilaterally lame behind, from throwing his weight on the forehand to offload the hinds. But once we treated/get the hinds comfortable/sound again, the fore sorts itself. And having scanned/xrayed the front leg nothing is clinically wrong with it.

He's never head nodding lame on the front leg, but a little short in movement

This could describe mine. She’s awkward in front, slightly choppy and short. Feet x-rays are fine save for what I’ve said. She’s typically worse on near fore and left hind is slightly worse on hock x-rays. Her worst gait is canter, trot isn’t bad at all once shes warmed up.

 

[Ceriann]

If the changes in her hocks are mild, I'd probably be inclined to try steroid first- I was looking at gel for one of mine, but the vet mentioned that if you go for gel and the joint gets infected it can't be flushed like a joint medicated with steroid could. The risk is still minimal, but I decided that I'd try steroid first and if that improved matters the risk and cost of gel would be more justifiable. (As it happens, after we x-rayed it turned out it wasn't his hocks that were the problem, so they didn't get injected with anything)

As a matter of interest what was the issue for yours?

 

[ihatework]

Honestly, for those that are showing multiple niggly issues at this sort of age, my experience is you could have a never-ending open chequebook and still not get them right.

Personally this is retirement or light hacking on Bute kind of situation. Maybe I’m just tight on the £££

 

[Ceriann]

Honestly, for those that are showing multiple niggly issues at this sort of age, my experience is you could have a never-ending open chequebook and still not get them right.

Personally this is retirement or light hacking on Bute kind of situation. Maybe I’m just tight on the £££

Vet rebooked for Thursday - he’s known her and me long enough to call that out so will ask. She’s a good hack, safe etc but she doesn’t love it, never has, which is partly why I’m considering one last go. I’ve always hacked her but she’s never as happy as when in the school. I don’t currently canter her ridden (we do some short sessions in the school for fitness) but she offers it almost every session. ?

 

[SpeedyPony]

As a matter of interest what was the issue for yours?

We suspect either joints further up or soft tissue- he's getting on a bit (21) and so although he warms up sound, he looks a bit stiff to start out/was starting to be a bit less keen to jump (previously a tank in that regard). Since it wasn't hocks or fetlocks and it would have been awkward to medicate anything further up, I decided to try him on a joint supplement and the farrier recommended two road studs behind rather than one on the outside to minimise the torsion on the leg. He's seemed a bit better thus far- we've also stepped down what we were doing a bit, if he's keen and locks on to a jump we go, if not we don't. I'm considering trying him on collagen and boswellia as well, but I honestly suspect it's mostly just age catching up with him so he can carry on doing what he enjoys/finds easy and have the supplementation/shoeing that best supports him.

 

[SO1]

At that age if you are going to try steriods over arthramid I would get a Cushings test just to make sure that there is not an underlying issue that could increase the laminitis risk of steroids.

 

[Fieldlife]

Mare is 14 and is struggling with soundness. She’s previously recovered from a medial branch suspensory injury (left hind) a few years ago but has always struggled with front feet issues (she has flat thin soles and runs long toes/contracted heels) and now has v mild arthritic changes in her hocks. She’s a low level performance worry as opposed to obviously/acutely lame and is still good to hack out (albeit our hacks are pretty sedate). Vet has seen her a few times so I have vet advice/options. I have waited post summer to consider best options to treat her to reduce the risk of lami if we choose to medicate the hocks. She is currently in v light work and is now mainly walked in hand to keep her fit/moving - she gets one Bute a day too. The feet are a constant management and she’s once again out of shoes (and has been for 6 months) and will stay that way as long as it doesn’t restrict her work. The plan is to medicate the hocks in the next few weeks (I am now leaning toward arthramid), which vet tells me should improve her hind movement. She does however continue to have mild intermittent lameness in front, mainly her near fore. I don’t want to medicate hind to find the biggest issue is her near fore but diagnosing front limb lameness with her is tricky as it’s so intermittent. I need to make some decisions and I think I need to work out (as far as possible - I’m not insured so I wouldn’t go as far as an mri) the cause of the near fore lameness and if that’s manageable go forward with that and hind medication but if not call it a day and semi/retire her. She’s the loveliest, sweetest horse and I desperately want to fix her (as riding her when she’s on form is all I want) but not at any cost. Any advice, thoughts or similar experiences welcomed.

Do you think the intermittent lameness in front might be foot soreness from thin soles, as opposed to medical lameness.

Is she still lame in padded hoof boots in front?

If you dont have hoof boots, you can use nappies, cut up mouse / camping / yoga mat and duct tape to fashion temporary boots for testing purposes.

 

[SpeedyPony]

Should have added that- we also did a Cushing's test whenwere thinking about steroids (came back fine)

 

[Ceriann]

Do you think the intermittent lameness in front might be foot soreness from thin soles, as opposed to medical lameness.

Is she still lame in padded hoof boots in front?

If you dont have hoof boots, you can use nappies, cut up mouse / camping / yoga mat and duct tape to fashion temporary boots for testing purposes.

Some of it will definitely be due to soreness - when she was shod I discussed pads with my farrier but he didn’t consider it anything than a v short term fix. She’s got renegades for hacking and easycares if ground hard for t/o. I now try to do a lot of in hand work bare to help her foot rehab (smooth roads only). She is more sure footed in boots but not footy without either just slower. She has come a very long way with her feet but she won’t ever be a rock cruncher.

 

[Ceriann]

We suspect either joints further up or soft tissue- he's getting on a bit (21) and so although he warms up sound, he looks a bit stiff to start out/was starting to be a bit less keen to jump (previously a tank in that regard). Since it wasn't hocks or fetlocks and it would have been awkward to medicate anything further up, I decided to try him on a joint supplement and the farrier recommended two road studs behind rather than one on the outside to minimise the torsion on the leg. He's seemed a bit better thus far- we've also stepped down what we were doing a bit, if he's keen and locks on to a jump we go, if not we don't. I'm considering trying him on collagen and boswellia as well, but I honestly suspect it's mostly just age catching up with him so he can carry on doing what he enjoys/finds easy and have the supplementation/shoeing that best supports him.

What supplement do you use? I’ve tried a couple and we have tried cartrophen, which did make a difference. In fairness I take a bit longer to warm up too. He’s a lucky boy you listen and take such good care of him.

 

[Ceriann]

At that age if you are going to try steriods over arthramid I would get a Cushings test just to make sure that there is not an underlying issue that could increase the laminitis risk of steroids.

On the list to discuss - thanks for the prompt.

 

[spacefaer]

When you say she offers canter in the school, that can sometimes be a sign of soreness - it can be easier for them to canter on a surface than trot.
Our old boy only ever walks or canters round the field, never trots. We know his hocks are arthritic and his front feet have compensatory issues.

 

[SpeedyPony]

What supplement do you use? I’ve tried a couple and we have tried cartrophen, which did make a difference. In fairness I take a bit longer to warm up too. He’s a lucky boy you listen and take such good care of him.

I've been using synequin, but it's hugely expensive- I'm thinking of going on to riaflex as that has a similar composition and is less than half the price- if he's the same on that it'll be a saver, otherwise he can go back onto the synequin.

 

[Ceriann]

When you say she offers canter in the school, that can sometimes be a sign of soreness - it can be easier for them to canter on a surface than trot.
Our old boy only ever walks or canters round the field, never trots. We know his hocks are arthritic and his front feet have compensatory issues.

When you say soreness is that feet or hocks or both? I am very conscious certain gaits are more comfortable so limit her to walk/trot.

 

[spacefaer]

When you say soreness is that feet or hocks or both? I am very conscious certain gaits are more comfortable so limit her to walk/trot.

I suspect both. We don't ever work him in a school (or lunge him) as the soft surface and the turning is bad for his hocks. Front feet we are in the process of diagnosing but he shows significant improvement after nerve block so I know there's an issue (s) there
Hocks have been an issue for a while in themselves and I think are currently being aggravated by the front feet

 

[Gloi]

I have found hoof armour great this year, allowing mine to go without boots and I'd really recommend trying it on her thin soled feet.

 

[Ceriann]

I have found hoof armour great this year, allowing mine to go without boots and I'd really recommend trying it on her thin soled feet.

I’ve just got my order funnily enough. Good to get such a positive review.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I’ve just got my order funnily enough. Good to get such a positive review.

I used it when one of mine developed thin soles and it definitely helped and the soles did improve after having a few years barefoot.

 

[Gloi]

I’ve just got my order funnily enough. Good to get such a positive review.

Mine has always been barefoot but I've used boots up to now because he'd wear badly on the roads and pick up gravel but after a couple of coats have only used the boots for any extra long rides and that was probably just for my peace of mind. Putting it on the frog and lower heel bulbs help him too. His feet are looking really good ? with great frogs.