WWYD

[TheChestnutThing]

So someone came to buy one of my horses and sent a deposit (non refundable).

They asked for a payment plan which I accepted (as I know this person) expecting the first payment to be made before the horse left me (he was to leave today). It was discussed at the time that it was a sale and not a loan or lwvtb and that I needed some form of first payment (not just deposit) before he left.

Yesterday this person said they would only pay first payment in Jan and second payment in April which I said absolutely not to. They then said they would pay full monies in Jan, again I said absolutely not.
They said they cannot afford to pay anything before he leaves today.
I said well I have paid livery for October so horse can stay whilst you come up with cash. Buyer said they won’t have cash before Jan.

So sale was cancelled and buyer wants deposit back.

Where do I stand. I’ve been throughly messed around, put other buyers off, yard owner had viewings for the stable today which she had to cancel (she was trying to help me out so she could refund me the months notice if that makes sense), so I’ve messed her around.
Do I be nice and give deposit back or keep it?

Aka, what would you do?

 

[AmyMay]

For an easy life I’d just give the deposit back.

 

[dottylottie]

i’d keep the deposit in your position, although payment frequency should probably have been discussed a bit sooner!

in my eyes you take a deposit to prevent being messed around, and you have been. i think it’s cheeky to not pay anything until jan!

 

[Gloi]

Say the horse is still for sale to the first person to pay the full amount. If the first buyer still wants it they can go get a bank loan. Keep the deposit for being messed about.

 

[Gallop_Away]

The buyer has broken the terms of your agreement. I would retain the deposit.

 

[Jambarissa]

Is any part of this agreement in writing? That the deposit was non refundable or the terms for the payment plan?

If it isnt I'd give the deposit back, it's your word against theirs and they'll bad mouth you all over FB.

Even if the deposit part was without having the rest of the terms in writing I'd say the buyer hasn't broken the agreement because there wasn't one.

Morally I do think you are entitled to keep the deposit.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

You made it clear first payment was due before horse left. They are lucky to have been offered a payment plan in the first and have breached the agreement at the first stage. And have left you with no sale coming into winter. I would absolutely keep the deposit.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Keep the deposit

 

[ihatework]

I’d give your head a good wobble for agreeing to a payment plan, that was never going to end well. I’d then keep deposit provided the terms were clearly documented in writing. If they weren’t I’d return deposit and give my head another wobble.

 

[Magnetic Sparrow]

Offer to pay the deposit back in January?

 

[Barton Bounty]

Offer to pay the deposit back in January?

Half in january and the rest in april

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Is any part of this agreement in writing? That the deposit was non refundable or the terms for the payment plan?

If it isnt I'd give the deposit back, it's your word against theirs and they'll bad mouth you all over FB.

Even if the deposit part was without having the rest of the terms in writing I'd say the buyer hasn't broken the agreement because there wasn't one.

Morally I do think you are entitled to keep the deposit.

They sent me an agreement that said non-refundable deposit.

 

[Surbie]

The agreement said non-refundable so I'd keep the deposit.

 

[nagblagger]

Keep the deposit
If you feel guilty say you will refund when the horse is sold.

 

[Abacus]

You are entitled to keep it, at least to pay for the livery until the horse is sold to someone else, at which point it would be fair if not legally necessary to return the remainder.

Easy to say now but I really don’t approve of payment plans - not sure anyone should be buying a horse on credit - what if there’s a big vet bill, etc. Surely better to wait, and save up more quickly for one without the monthly cost of keeping it.

 

[Jenko109]

Given the terms of this agreement were clearly not documented, I would give the deposit back.

It's all well and good saying the deposit was non refundable, but obviously there was a serious lack of clarity on how the payment plan was going to work, how quickly the money needed to be paid by, how much needed to be paid and at what intervals etc.

The buyer paid a non refundable deposit, but they obviously had a different understanding on the arrangement to what you did.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Where do I stand. I’ve been throughly messed around, put other buyers off, yard owner had viewings for the stable today which she had to cancel (she was trying to help me out so she could refund me the months notice if that makes sense), so I’ve messed her around.
Do I be nice and give deposit back or keep it?

I'd split it between yourself and the people who were messed about by this. Make a list of what it actually cost to bend over backwards to help the 'buyer' , in case she objects. That is what deposits are for.
FWIW I think you had a lucky escape. I doubt very much you'd have been paid if the horse had left the yard.

 

[tda]

Morally I feel you should keep the deposit, but in real-life, as you already know the person I'd probably give it back for the sake of a quiet/easy life

 

[ycbm]

Is any part of this agreement in writing? That the deposit was non refundable or the terms for the payment plan?

If it isnt I'd give the deposit back, it's your word against theirs and they'll bad mouth you all over FB.

Even if the deposit part was without having the rest of the terms in writing I'd say the buyer hasn't broken the agreement because there wasn't one.

Morally I do think you are entitled to keep the deposit.

An agreement does not have to be in writing to be a legally enforceable contract.
.

 

[cauda equina]

It's probably going to cause the least hassle to give it back, but then you wonder what is the point of a deposit at all if a buyer can reclaim it after simply changing their mind

 

[Cortez]

What part of Non-refundable do they (and you) not understand?

 

[Melody Grey]

I would refund the deposit for an easy life but learn from it that payment plans are asking for trouble.

I worry that when people can’t pay for the horse, they may not be able to fund veterinary treatment either which is a bit of a red flag for the safety of the horse in their possession (though I understand that many use credit cards for this).

 

[ycbm]

I would refund only after you have sold the horse and only if you get the same amount or more for it and don't have to pay more livery because of the delay.

By definition, deposits are non returnable unless the horse is not fit for sale or withdrawn by the seller, otherwise they would serve no purpose whatsoever.

 

[Jambarissa]

An agreement does not have to be in writing to be a legally enforceable contract.
.

Yep but it's a hell of a lot easier to prove if it is. Even just confirming things in texts is OK but when it's a spoken agreement people tend to hear different things.

 

[Tiddlypom]

What part of Non-refundable do they (and you) not understand?

This.

A non refundable deposit is to give the seller some recompense if the buyer messes around. The buyer has messed you around.

Keep the deposit.

Payment plans are always messy, many buyers will default on them before the horse is fully paid for. Avoid.

 

[J&S]

I would not sell my/a horse to this person. If they are strapped for cash now what is going to change in the future?

 

[ycbm]

Yep but it's a hell of a lot easier to prove if it is. Even just confirming things in texts is OK but when it's a spoken agreement people tend to hear different things.

Nobody is disputing that but your post appeared to be suggesting that if it wasn't in writing then there was no contract. It's a common misconception that contracts have to be written. They don't. You just need to be able to prove them on balance of probabilities.

In this case she does not have to prove the deposit was non refundable because a deposit serves no purpose whatsoever if the buyer can simply change their mind about buying the horse and have it back. By definition, if the horse is still available to buy in the same condition as when the sale was agreed, the deposit is not refundable unless the buyer can prove otherwise.
.

 

[ycbm]

OP I think you've had a lucky escape and that the chances of you ever being paid for the horse were slim to zero.
.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Buyer knew from the get go that I did not want a loan/lwvtb and that I wanted the horse sold.

I asked them to send me date for final payment instalment in a bill of sale. This turned into basically a BHS loan agreement where buyer then typed into it…non - refundable deposit and the payments.

With them not being able to then come up with the cash before he left me, the sale was then cancelled by me…due to this they think they can have their deposit back and have asked for it twice now.

 

[AmyMay]

What an unavoidable mess.

Hey ho. You live and learn.