XC Woes

[iknowmyvalue]

Feeling slightly disheartened and frustrated at the moment. We’ve made a lot of progress on the SJ front (to be tested on Sunday...) but went XC schooling today and feel like we’re never going to get anywhere. His jump/technique are so much better, my confidence is still not great but heading in the right direction, but he still feels the need to stop and inspect almost every fence before he will agree to think about jumping it. After he has, he’s usually fairly happy to jump it.

Has anyone else been here? Will we ever get anywhere? What can I do?

I accept that maybe we both just need more time/experience. This was our first XC school since last summer, he’s actually only been XC 3 times since 2019... Plus I’ve got a fair amount of issues around XC anyway, so I don’t always ride him my best, and sometimes drop him at the last minute. But still, I guess I’m just frustrated and don’t know what to do next.

 

[shortstuff99]

Have you ever taken him hunting? A few times drag hunting might help him improve his bravery.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Have you ever taken him hunting? A few times drag hunting might help him improve his bravery.

Yep, he’s done a few seasons of hunting. He’s usually fine if he’s following other horses. Same with pairs XC. The occasionally stop but usually because the stride is wrong because I have no brakes at all if he’s following someone else

 

[Roxylola]

I'd try working over smaller things, literally little logs you can just walk trot and canter over. And just work til he will go forward over them

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I'd try working over smaller things, literally little logs you can just walk trot and canter over. And just work til he will go forward over them

I think this is going to be the key. Thinking about it he only started stopping when things were getting a bit bigger/more technical (by bigger I mean like 70-80cm. So maybe I’m just being impatient? I’ve had him nearly 5 years, but I wasn’t actually riding him that often because of uni. Plus he’s only been back in work a year after being out for 7mo with an injury. The first time he went XC I could barely get him out of walk and we were only doing 40-50cm, so I guess we’ve improved since then!

 

[Roxylola]

Yep, sounds like a lack of confidence as the questions get harder he stops. I'd be really focusing on he must get to the other side without stopping before I'd worry about height. If that means you walk fine keep them small enough to walk, and just build from there

 

[Cherryblossom]

I agree about making them small. The eventer who broke my mare has an excellent BE record. She starts her horses super small, and none of them are ever given the option to refuse. If they stop, they go nowhere until they clear the jump; no circling or trying something different. Because she keeps the jumps small enough to safely do this for a decent length of time, all her horses have a really honest attitude. They’re not beaten over the fence, so they’re not scared, they just learn that the easiest course is to go over the jump from trot/canter ad that’s less work than doing it from a halt and they gain nothing from stopping.

 

[paddi22]

we get a lot of green horses in and teach them xc. I keep the jumps super small until the horse is pulling me to them and keen to get over and almost 'bored' with the height. I keep them at a season doing the tiniest hunter trial jumps so they get a full experience of ground/mud/water/hills/shadows etc so that I know they have a solid education for anything they will encounter and gain confidence at it over a small height. I'm very very slow bringing them on, but it does stand to them and I think the extra year I keep them small makes them more confident. I would never raise xc height with a horse unless it was absolutely raring to carry me into the jump and felt like they enjoyed it.

it adds more time onto the start of their education but I find they go up the heights faster then, because it's never really about the heights, (even our cobby ponies can fly round a metre event). I think it's more about the horse having the heart and confidence to take it on.

 

[Bernster]

I have similar issues as my boy is very steady in his jumping, prefers to chip in a stride and likes to look at an early fence on a xc course when he’s competing solo. I’ve not really cracked it tbh but keeping it small def helps us, as I stay within my comfort zone. For me, I need to get him motoring and in a good canter and practice getting him to jump on a forward stride. A lot of our issues are also me as I’ve developed a defensive seat now in response, so I need to do more grids and pole work. And hopefully that will translate on the xc course.

Pairs, hunting, a gazillion xc lessons etc, don’t help - he’s great at those, it’s having that same confidence going solo that’s our issue.

 

[Bernster]

Oh, and I meant to add, don’t be too hard on yourself, it sounds like he’s not done loads of xc and this was your first time out for ages!

 

[Ambers Echo]

Echo all the above. He just needs confidence. Use multiple different ways of increasing that: follow a horse. Have a horse on the other side he is riding to. Let him circle the jump on both reins (ie so he can see out of both eyes) before you present. So instead of him stopping to have a look you plan a look and then present. Keep jumps small and inviting. Stay within YOUR comfort zone so you don't mentally abandon him or ride less effectively just when be needs you most. As he gets more confident, don't get bigger immediately- instead slowly lose these safety net things till he is happily cantering and popping 50/60cm fences, going through water and up and down small steps, linking them together, staying relaxed. Then start to go up but in a stepwise way - 2 easy and 1 more challenging then 2 easy so you are sandwiching a more challenging fence between easier ones. Increase technical difficulty or height but not both at the same time.

As a random aside, this is exactly the issue I have with Eland - small XC courses should be all about confidence and building positive experiences for horse and rider. You want the horse cantering and popping fences on undulating ground with a few things to see like water and steps or banks and a selection of inviting, confidence building fences so you all finish with a smile on your face and the feeling that XC is fun rather than terrifying.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

thanks all! Having mulled it over I’ve come to a similar conclusion, I’m expecting too much too quickly for both of us. I’m going to try and take it back to basics, and try and get lots of practice in. Steps/water/ditches etc he’s a pro at, and they don’t faze him at all, so it’s just the solid fences we need to work on...

I think 60-70cm is our “comfort zone”, where I’m not quite so convinced he’s going to go rotational if the stride is wrong and where he can step over them if needs be. Luckily the course I went to yesterday has lots of fences (and lots of types of fences) that height or smaller. Planning to go back there with a friend with her been there done that old horse in a few weeks, and see how we get on.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Mine likes to inspect jumps in great detail but we've been having many, many lessons and as mentioned above, he goes over no matter what, from a standstill and we've been doing small jumps so there is nothing too difficult. I was allowed to growl at him today as he wasn't scared just needed me to put brave pants on and get assertive. It takes time and practice so keep going!!

 

[Jellymoon]

Does he put his head down on the approach to the jump in order to have a good look at it?

You could try this over some small jumps to start with: get a good strong hunting canter on the approach keeping his head up, don’t let him peer down at the jump, then on landing, and this is VERY important, send him away from the jump very positively. Land and GO! Like you are trying to win Burghley.
Keep doing this , even if you get a horrible jump and he lands in a heap, send him away, until it becomes second nature.
Keep the jumps small so you feel very positively and are brave enough to ride strongly, and string a few together, but every single jump, he has to land and spring away immediately.

 

[LEC]

thanks all! Having mulled it over I’ve come to a similar conclusion, I’m expecting too much too quickly for both of us. I’m going to try and take it back to basics, and try and get lots of practice in. Steps/water/ditches etc he’s a pro at, and they don’t faze him at all, so it’s just the solid fences we need to work on...

I think 60-70cm is our “comfort zone”, where I’m not quite so convinced he’s going to go rotational if the stride is wrong and where he can step over them if needs be. Luckily the course I went to yesterday has lots of fences (and lots of types of fences) that height or smaller. Planning to go back there with a friend with her been there done that old horse in a few weeks, and see how we get on.

I don’t think I would even sit on a horse Xc if I thought it was incapable of learning and going to have a rotational at 70cm. I think this is your problem. It doesn’t matter what you do, you are going to be in a vicious cycle where he needs confidence and you are not giving it to him because you are worried about it.

Tbh xc doesn’t sound very fun if you are stressed about falling and any horse however talentless can jump 60/70cm. If you have holes in your sjing and they stem around confidence I would get those filled before moving on. You are setting yourself up to fail at the moment.

This might sound really harsh as probably not what you want to hear. I see it time and time again people setting themselves up to fail. Set yourself up for success and get the sjing sorted, move onto simulated xc so xc questions made out of sj - get really confident so when you go xc it looks small and your horse has the skill set to answer the questions even when he makes a mistake.

 

[DabDab]

Completely understand your rotational fear given your previous experience. Lots of great advice up thread in terms of how to approach things with H. But might also be worth looking into some sports psychology for you...?

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I don’t think I would even sit on a horse Xc if I thought it was incapable of learning and going to have a rotational at 70cm. I think this is your problem. It doesn’t matter what you do, you are going to be in a vicious cycle where he needs confidence and you are not giving it to him because you are worried about it.

Tbh xc doesn’t sound very fun if you are stressed about falling and any horse however talentless can jump 60/70cm. If you have holes in your sjing and they stem around confidence I would get those filled before moving on. You are setting yourself up to fail at the moment.

This might sound really harsh as probably not what you want to hear. I see it time and time again people setting themselves up to fail. Set yourself up for success and get the sjing sorted, move onto simulated xc so xc questions made out of sj - get really confident so when you go xc it looks small and your horse has the skill set to answer the questions even when he makes a mistake.

No, I appreciate the honesty. He’s quite capable of answering the questions, the fear of a rotational stems from a freak accident with my previous horse, not any sign that he actually will.

I’ve spent lockdown/winter really working on the SJ and both our confidence has come on enormously and we are confidently doing courses of 85-90cm now. I (wrongly it seems) thought that would translate directly to XC, but clearly we still need more work there. Will definitely see if I can find somewhere with some arena XC style fences to hire to work on that.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Completely understand your rotational fear given your previous experience. Lots of great advice up thread in terms of how to approach things with H. But might also be worth looking into some sports psychology for you...?

actually yes I’ve thought about it before but never actually got around to it. Maybe something to look into again now I’m wanting to go out and compete more... I do also think I forget how much having a break from things knocks my confidence, I’m always a bit wobbly my first time XC after a break.

 

[fredflop]

You can work on xc style fences in arena. Corners made out of poles, ditches/water trays. If you can get your hands on a bit of old telegraph pole, that could make a good little step over obstacle.

 

[Red-1]

My husband bought my olde venter, Charlie Horse, because of this. I have taught countless others to XC, but he... didn't enjoy it!

We were very successful 90 and 100, usually won a numnah (!), but the step to Novice was a step too far. We narrowed it down to the fact that he didn't like to jump where he couldn't see the landing. Drops were fine, steps fine, you can see the landing from there. Hunting and team chasing were also fine. Although he couldn't see the landing, he could see that other horses had landed, so there must be one...

At 90 and 100 he could chip one in and still go. Novice was a bit big for him to chip one in, so he had the odd stop. I shipped him off to a pro at this stage, they hit him harder and could force him to go, but he still hated it. I put him on the market as a supreme RC horse, safe as houses (tractors/wheelie bins/flags/ novices - he was 'proof' of everything and kind with it) but the people who came to view were either unsuitable or wanted to event! One person got funny with us, rally wanted to buy him, Mr Red stepped in and bought him off me then and there, for £8,000.

Charlie Horse then had a charmed life, friends learned on him, people took him to competitions, people borrowed him as a SJ schoolmaster, I hunted him... but he never got over his fear of not seeing the landing.

For context, we were having XC lessons, confidently, over BE Intermediate style fences, where he could hack round first, see the landing, or over island fences, where he could see the surroundings. In the midst of this, there would be the tiniest log where the landing was not visible due to the terrain, and he would grind to a halt. I think it was kindest that he became the horse of dreams for other people, and I got a hum dinger of an eventer who DID want to go XC!

I just saw it that Charlie Horse was from Ireland, had probably hunted as a baby, and knew that checking out that there was a landing was keeping us all safe. Can't argue with his logic!

 

[Tiddlypom]

How old is he now?

If he's not naturally bold XC, and you understandably have some issues XC after your prior experience, it doesn't sound like a great match tbh. You both need your partner to be confident, and it's not quite working now.

Do you really want to go eventing again? If you do, then maybe he isn't the horse to be doing it with? A bolder but careful horse might suit you better, rather than persevering eventing with the current one.

 

[Ambers Echo]

You could be me! I stopped jumping for years after a rotational fall which broke ribs. I was terrified at first. You absolutely CAN regain confidence if you do want to get back to XC riding. X

 

[iknowmyvalue]

How old is he now?

If he's not naturally bold XC, and you understandably have some issues XC after your prior experience, it doesn't sound like a great match tbh. You both need your partner to be confident, and it's not quite working now.

Do you really want to go eventing again? If you do, then maybe he isn't the horse to be doing it with? A bolder but careful horse might suit you better, rather than persevering eventing with the current one.

He’s 11 but low mileage, had done nothing when I got him, and I’ve not had the time to ride/compete him consistently until last year (then COVID happened...)

To be honest I know he’s never going to be the horse to go up the levels on eventing. That’s fine with me. He’s never going anywhere. My plan was always to get something else once I’m in a financial/life position to do so. It would be nice if we could bimble around at 80/90cm but if it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen.

If it really doesn’t work I’d happily retire him from competitive jumping and just stick to dressage/hunting and save jumping for fun/the odd pairs Hunter trial etc. Just seems a shame to give up when he’s come such a long way!

 

[milliepops]

I don't think you need to give up but a horse that lacks confidence needs the rider to do the confidence heavy lifting so I would definitely scale back the pressure on yourself until you can do that for him. It's not just brave pants stuff, but knowing you have the skill to get him to the fence correctly so he gets from a-b in a way that doesn't add to his own anxiety.
Could you ride some more xc-established horses in the kind of scenarios that you want to do with your horse? it might help to break the thought cycle and concentrate on the right things instead?

I think you can squish a square peg into a round hole but it's always a bit of a compromise for everyone - I did jump my welsh D for a bit because I thought she should do a bit of everything, but tbh we have all been happier since i stopped trying to make her be something she isn't, naturally, and concentrated on her strong points. So if you end up buying something else for XC fun and reserve your chap for the things he excels at, there is no shame in that whatsoever.

 

[paddi22]

have you seen your instructor or anyone ride him xc? does he still do the 'look' before the jump with them?