XL Bullies are out. For the chav-about-town, this season's accessory dog is...

[conniegirl]

because unless you make it much wider ranging, banning all dogs of a broad "type"

I think you need to look at the legislation. It has always been type not breed. If it looks like a banned dog then it is considered a banned dog regardless of iif you have papers to the contrary

 

[OlderNotWiser]

The boxer half really wouldn't worry me. Apart from the potential to keel over from a heart condition.

I agree, I just couldn’t believe how quickly a new ‘must have’ breed appears in certain communities.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think you need to look at the legislation. It has always been type not breed. If it looks like a banned dog then it is considered a banned dog regardless of iif you have papers to the contrary

I think you've misunderstood my post. My point is that dogs of pitbull "type" were banned, so people developed the XL Bully which was different enough to not be caught by that legislation and now they are banned. In another 20 years or so (possibly less) there will likely be another problem breed/type/whatever you want to call it that will be similar but different enough not to be caught by legistlation.

I'm saying to capture all these dogs we'd probably need to ban all bull type dogs over a specific weight, which wouldn't be proportionate or reasonable.

 

[P3LH]

Sorry but this just isn't true. Many 'nice' people have been killed by their own or other people's dogs. Or are you saying that all the people killed by dogs were bad people? All those dogs were being abused?
If only bad people/chavs want to own XL bullies, what does that say about them as a breed/type?

And yet again it's this 'it's not the dog, it's the owner' thing, completely discounting the huge part that genetics plays.
I'm not saying any of this for fun, it's not to be argumentative or contrary, it's my own experience of dealing with countless numbers of other people's dogs and sitting geeking out over pedigrees since I was a kid.
What we do as humans plays only a part in how our dogs turn out, and that's only when we KNOW the genetics.

As, I'm guessing, one of the very few people on this thread who has actually been around Dutch Herders, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.
They're pretty rare and not in widespread use as either police or sports and there's a reason for that. A lot of folks used to call them 'Dumb Dutchies'. You can get good ones but a not so good one? You'd have a better time trying to train a brick.
I really don't think I'm going to see many of these crosses about the place.

Deflecting onto some idiots doing a stupid cross because you don't agree with the legislation, ain't it.

I’ve never understood why people can accept that if you buy a herding breed or stock dog it’s going to be pushy, like to make things move, bright and busy. Or a terrier will like to kill things, be independent, like to free roam, know it’s own mind. A gun dog will generally be biddable and like to carry things around and do things. A guard breed will do what it says on the tin.


Yet with XL bullies there is complete denial, and other such modern similar types. I stress this point rather than bull breeds generally as I find the temperament in most established bull breeds is generally stable, predictable and all the bells and whistles of their roustabout/roguish charm without too much of the hot under the collar type behaviour they would have once had generations ago. XL bullies are a modern invention, whose personality was being bred to be what is seen in the headlines not all that long ago. Mix that with being generally highly strung and super reactive, and throw in no scrutiny of breeding stock, mostly poor socialisation and owners who wouldn’t manage a flea on a lead and voila.

 

[gryff]

There are some beautiful lurcher pups being advertised, I think, from a rescue centre. Saluki cross Malinois!! They are absolutely lovely looking pups. To be fair to the advert, they are quite blunt about both breed characteristics.

 

[P3LH]

Also, I’d like to think of myself as a fairly nice/good person, yet one of my current dogs sees herself as a diminutive version of Robert Mugabe.

 

[I'm Dun]

There are some beautiful lurcher pups being advertised, I think, from a rescue centre. Saluki cross Malinois!! They are absolutely lovely looking pups. To be fair to the advert, they are quite blunt about both breed characteristics.

That combo is my worst nightmare! I dont even like more than a tiny sprinkling of saluki in lurchers, crossed with a mali doesnt bear thinking about!

 

[skinnydipper]

From what I've seen XLBs don't give much/any warning. No aggressive displays. Very subtle body language clues, if any. Just straight in there.

 

[AmyMay]

Also, I’d like to think of myself as a fairly nice/good person, yet one of my dogs sees herself as a diminutive version of Robert Mugabe.

We have a lovely client, whose dog has been beautifully brought up. God forbid you ask it to do something it doesn’t want to. All I can say is thank the Lord it’s small.

Our Jack was the same.

 

[P3LH]

From what I've seen XLBs don't give much/any warning. No aggressive displays. Very subtle body language clues, if any. Just straight in there.

What I like to call shark eyes, it’s the same as what I’ve observed in Akita’s when they do damage. No signs, no change, oozing constant serenity and calm and then it’s on.

 

[ihatework]

What I like to call shark eyes, it’s the same as what I’ve observed in Akita’s when they do damage. No signs, no change, oozing constant serenity and calm and then it’s on.

I had a friend with an Australian Cattle Dog just the same. Easy and biddable 99.9% of the time. The other 0.1% came from nowhere I once felt a shift in the dogs energy, nothing else, and left never to fully engage with it again.

Imagine that in XLB size and jaw strength. Shudders.

 

[skinnydipper]

What I like to call shark eyes, it’s the same as what I’ve observed in Akita’s when they do damage. No signs, no change, oozing constant serenity and calm and then it’s on.

Akitas, another breed I'm not fond of.

 

[gryff]

That combo is my worst nightmare! I dont even like more than a tiny sprinkling of saluki in lurchers, crossed with a mali doesnt bear thinking about!

Exactly what I thought. I love Salukis, but don't want a lurcher with any Saluki in it at all.

 

[splashgirl45]

When I was looking for a lurcher I discounted any saluki crosses, I wanted border collie/whippet who could have a bit of bedlington . I got a 3/4 whippet with 1/4 being bc and bedlington so not quite what I wanted but close .

 

[skinnydipper]

And what exactly is wrong with a Saluki lurcher?

RIP sweetheart.

 

[Cortez]

And what exactly is wrong with a Saluki lurcher?

RIP sweetheart.

She's beautiful. I have had saluki lurchers in the past, and have a young one now. This one is more of a challenge than previous ones, but she's going to be just fine when she grows up. Which will hopefully be soon.....

 

[Ratface]

In my far-off youth, I had an Afghan Hound who was incredibly beautiful but a bit inattentive to most things - especially training. I would love a Saluki, but The Cat, my age and diminishing health preclude any more dogs.

 

[I'm Dun]

And what exactly is wrong with a Saluki lurcher?

RIP sweetheart.

Too independent and aloof for me. I think they are gorgeous dogs, but I prefer whippets and their velcro dog stuff.

 

[cbmcts]

I would encourage anyone with a genuine interest in dogs, training, behaviour, genetics etc to volunteer or help out in a training club/class/rescue/kennels etc, it will teach you so much more about dogs (and people) than simply looking at your own dogs who live in your home.

Especially if you see the result of several generations of various breedings in different homes with different training styles, it really will change your view of 'it's not the dog, it's the owner' and you can end up being able to tell a dog's heritage by the way it is behaving or how it looks.

Of course it is much, much harder to come to this conclusion with so many cross breedings and mixings and nothing written down/recorded.
It might sound snobby but it's a lot easier to deal with the known than the unknown. People have mental or physical genetic ticking timebombs living in their home and they don't even realise it.

Second this, especially regarding the people. Such a change in attitude, mainly about taking responsibility and putting in the effort with their (large, as it's a breed specific club) dog. It's all about the quick fix while not upsetting the fur baby as that upsets the fur mummy and daddy. Usually because their spoilt, un/ill-mannered dog then throws a tantrum which scares them!

It's the same with rescue - calls saying my dog has bitten me, you have to come and collect it from the other side of the country NOW. When you try and find out more, you are met with hysterics and told it's your fault that a 'lovely, healthy' dog will be put down. Somehow any issues are the responsibility of someone, anyone else to sort out even if the dog is an adult that they've had since a pup.

Same with the breeding, there appears to be a lot of Eastern European/working line type dogs in family homes, chosen - if any thought went into it, which I personally doubt most of the time - because they are reputably heathier, being lighter and are fabulous looking dogs. Temperament wise, they are like malis in a rottweiler suit, bright, busy and really need a job. I can now spot and hear them a mile off. When this type of dog is in an ineffective home for whatever reason, there are going to be problems but it's rare to see people up their game, take the help and advice that is freely offered and learn to handle their dog.

Many years ago, that was me, out of my depth with a dog I really struggled with. I got many things wrong with that dog and even subsequent ones but I sought help, gritted my teeth, hugely expanded my vocabulary of swear words and learnt to handle MY dog. Then I got involved with rescue and to this day, am still learning but as I'm stubborn, I don't give up on the dogs. The people, however...

While I'm no fan of the XLB and quite a few of the other large breeds that might replace them, there is a big element of people being the issue rather than a particular breed. If people are not prepared to start being realistic about their abilities, facilities and the effort they are able to put into their dogs before they bring them home as well as being very picky about the origin of the dog, there are still going to be serious problems with dogs for society as a whole. Maybe not to the same horrific extent as the XLBs but I do not fancy having to deal with an ill mannered, out of control cane corsa/akita/LGD type if they are mismanaged on a daily basis. As a society, we really do have to start forcing people to take responsibility for the choices they have made and somehow enforce that. The laws are in place but don't appear to be enforced sadly.

 

[Jemima50]

The next 'status dog' was always going to be worse than the (loyal and steady, but not good with dogs) APBT or the (generally lazy and affable, but huuge) XL bully.
Jeremy Clarkson was quite correct when he described the creation of the (hypothetical) 'Wolftronic'.

I'm starting to see adverts for "Bull Herders". I had to look it up. Seems to be an APBT or American Bully crossed with a Malinois.

What did you expect ?
When a 'breed' is banned/restricted , a new 'breed' is introduced.

 

[Cortez]

What did you expect ?
When a 'breed' is banned/restricted , a new 'breed' is introduced.

So, what: just let everyone have whatever dog they like, treat it how they like, and never mind the attacks, injuries and deaths?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Maybe....just maybe...the XL bully was developed because all of those other breeds have been tried already, and they just didn't fit the bill? And showed their unsuitability far, far sooner than 18 months?

 

[skinnydipper]

Too independent and aloof for me.

Not my experience with her or Salukis that I have known.

I'm sorry you haven’t ‘clicked’ with the ones you have met.

 

[skinnydipper]

...

 

[splashgirl45]

And what exactly is wrong with a Saluki lurcher?

RIP sweetheart.

Yours looks beautiful, the only ones I have met have been very prey driven and as my last lurcher (coursing whippet/ bedlington/ bearded collie) was like that I wanted more of a pet type. My mistake was that her dad was a coursing whippet and not a pet whippet..

 

[Jenko109]

I had a friend with an Australian Cattle Dog just the same. Easy and biddable 99.9% of the time. The other 0.1% came from nowhere I once felt a shift in the dogs energy, nothing else, and left never to fully engage with it again.

I also know someone who used to have one.

He was a seemingly wonderful dog. He came out with the horses and was friendly and polite.

The owner warned me from day dot to never try and push him to do anything if he does not want to do it as he will have you.

You could not remove a tick from him for instance as he would quickly switch if he felt you had crossed a line.

 

[Jenko109]

When I was looking for a lurcher I discounted any saluki crosses, I wanted border collie/whippet who could have a bit of bedlington . I got a 3/4 whippet with 1/4 being bc and bedlington so not quite what I wanted but close .

A border collie x whippet is one I would consider for the future.

In the hope of getting an agility machine with a decent off switch.

 

[splashgirl45]

This one was pet whippet/border collie , very easy to train and normal dog prey drive, she was brilliant looked whippety with border collie sharpness . I’ve never managed to find another

 

[skinnydipper]

Yours looks beautiful, the only ones I have met have been very prey driven and as my last lurcher (coursing whippet/ bedlington/ bearded collie) was like that I wanted more of a pet type. My mistake was that her dad was a coursing whippet and not a pet whippet..

She was very much a pet, very loving with the best silky ears. She would sometimes climb on my knee and sit with her bum on my chest or curl up like a cat. She was like a limpet on the bed, no need for a hot water bottle. She liked soft toys, she never destroyed them. She used to take them upstairs and I could hear her jumping about playing them. I've kept her favourite.

She could be naughty, you couldn't leave meat unattended on the worktop even for a moment and it was trial and error finding a bin she couldn't get into .

She is looking a bit forlorn on the photo, she didn't like the weather, she liked to be warm and snug. If it was raining anybody would think she had been beaten.

I didn't have her from a puppy, travellers dumped her and her brother.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I also know someone who used to have one.

He was a seemingly wonderful dog. He came out with the horses and was friendly and polite.

The owner warned me from day dot to never try and push him to do anything if he does not want to do it as he will have you.

You could not remove a tick from him for instance as he would quickly switch if he felt you had crossed a line.

This is essentially my old dog. However because I know his lines and his immediate relatives, I know this comes from nature and not because I am not 'nice'
And because I was equipped with the right information, he has always been carefully managed and his interactions with people outside the home has always been carefully controlled. I also am fairly competent at reading body language and know when he has had enough.
Touch wood, he has managed to make it to double figures with superficial injuries being sustained by me and me alone, and he is the best dog I will ever own.

Are these types of dogs for everyone? Are they gentle giants, furbabies, affable, misunderstood?
No. They're super dogs for people who know what they are doing and luckily are so intolerant of poor handling that the uninitiated realise in about five minutes.