Xrays and scans tomorrow for Pidge - what Q do I need to ask?

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Pidge

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Ok so off to vets first thing in the morning with Pidge. They are doing Xrays, scans and nerve blocks to see if they can pinpoint where and what caused his lameness. So what questions do I need to ask? Should they go as far up as his hocks? Do they need to examine his pelvis etc? Any advice much appreciated as usual.
Instructor gave sis a lesson today and I trotted Pidge up and he was sound which is good as he came off his bute last Thursday. Didn't do flexion tests though. Also tomorrow is a bad day amyway as it will be 2 years to the day I had Higgs PTS as he had grass sickness
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so any good vibes for Pidge would be good as not sure I can handle bad news tomorrow
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They nerve block as high as it takes for the horse to come sound. My horse had his shoulder nerve blocked last year!

Vets are usually very good at explaining all you need to know, you dont tend to need to ask extra questions. 1 tip is make sure you take a bridle, I didnt once & it was a flipping night mare, particularly if they have been on box rest!

Best of luck for tomorrow. Which vet are you with?
 
Ah so they won't just go as high as the fetlock then as that was where they thought the problem was?
Can I ask a stupid question? Why take a bridle? He has been having 10 mins in hand walking each day and is fine in a headcollar so do I need to take his bridle then? Been on box rest since last Monday evening and prior to that had a week in a small part of the field on his own (20m x20m area)
Straitons at Penkridge, he has to be there between 8 - 8.30am so am aiming to leave the yard by about 7.15am.
Thanks for the advice and best wishes
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You will either find out what it is or find out what it isnt!!!! Either way you will be wiser!!

Hopefully it will be found and treatable.
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Good luck

L
 
If he's sound they won't be able to do the nerve blocks. Which is good in a way as if he's coming right on box rest, although you won't know what caused the lameness you may be advised to leave him on rest a while longer then bring him back into work. If the vet sees enough lameness (which I doubt by what you're saying) he'll block as far up the leg as he needs to see him come sound, then will x-ray that area. My advice is to not let the vet give you the "dumbed down" version of what he really wants to say. My vet was quite relieved that he could talk to me and not my Mum after Maiden's blocks etc once I'd told him I was doing an equine degree! I'm sure he told me a lot more though when he wasn't trying not to use the long words, than if he would have had to put it in layman's terms.
Good luck!
 
thanks, just want to find out what is wrong or was wrong with him. Can't you tell I'm impatient!
 
Well whenever my horse travels, he thinks he's going somewhere exciting. He comes out the bnox all full of adreniline, then if I have to trot him up in just a headcollar I cant hold him & he gets quite dangerous; he is often bargy at home - but he always looses all composure at the vets. Plus nerve blocks tend to wind them up, as they cause quite a lot of pain.

They do usually keep going until they find the pain source, when my horse first went in last year, the vet thought he was lame in his right foot. But he had to have both his left & right shoulders blocked out before he came sound; they just kept blocking until they could give me some form of diagnosis. (Trust me though, it isnt good for your wallet when they do that many blocks, so prey he blocks out in the fetlock
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[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a stupid question? Why take a bridle?

[/ QUOTE ]
As someone else said, and especially with a big'un like Pidge, anything will get annoyed if it's having huge needles stuck in it's legs. But also, I was told to take Maiden's saddle as well in case she wasn't lame enough and needed to be ridden to make her lame enough for the vet to see a difference once blocked. If I were you I'd take your saddle as well.
 
oh poo, so does that mean its bad he's sound now? God this is confusing
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so if he is still sound after vet does flexion tests then they can't nerve block?
On the plus side he is better on 5 ACP am and pm and have found a quicker way of doing his bed
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semi deep litter, idea from Claire on here, tramped down base of shavings just muck out top layer and get the wee out from the bottom layer, much quicker and a much less stressed mum. Does mean however that Pidge looks about 18hh in his box though
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ah hadn't thought of that thanks will go get his bridle ready for the morning.
Ooh the nerve blocks don't sound very nice, though Pidge luckily does tend to be pretty chilled out with injections and the like. When he was microchipped he never even noticed the injection and boy was it a big needle! Have got a claim form from the NFU as guess I'm going to be going over my £120 excess somehow
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yeah I suppose trying to stop 600kg of horse flesh in just a headcollar could be interesting
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vet just told me to take him there first thing in the morning and leave him there all day, think I may have a chat with them when I take him and can always pop back with saddle later in the day as booked the day off work.
 
Sorry I keep on posting, I keep hitting proxy errors and getting held up!
The whole point of a nerve block (as I'm sure I explained before but not so pointedly as now) is that horse is lame, say 3/10, and once the vet blocks the nerve that is sending the pain messages from the affected part to the brain, the horse becomes sound as he does not know his foot is hurting any more, and this makes horse sound or half-1/10 lame (for example). So Maiden was half/10 lame when vet first saw her, I rode her for a week and she became 2/10 lame, vet trotted her up to confirm this and then blocked her foot. She was still 2/10 lame, so he blocked her pastern and she was very nearly sound. So that was a significant enough difference for the vet to see. However if Pidge goes to the vet's tomorrow sound, or even only 1/10 lame, it will be incredibly difficult for the vet to see if he comes sound after each block. Hence there won't be any point in blocking. And the point of blocking before x-raying is that x-rays are only really effective when you can focus on one specific point on the horse, they can't be used to image the whole leg or you can't see what you're looking for. So my vet then imaged Maiden's pastern area only (x-rays and ultrasound).
Glad he's getting more sane though, maybe Maiden has stolen some of his madness though as I never knew she could passage until this morning!
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I'm thinking of going this route with my boy, but just wondering how much (ball park) are the nerve blocks?? and are they just injections??

Pidge, good luck tomorrow!!
 
Just tried to find my last vet's bill but it was sent to the insurance so I have NO idea how much blocks were, but two visits with about 10 blocks (ish), plus x-rays and ultrasound, and two day's livery was around £450.
Nerve blocks aren't a single diagnostic tool, they are nothing unless used in conjunction with other modalities such as x-ray and ultrasound. They simply give the vet an area to focus images at. So the blocks themselves are just local anaesthetic injected into wherever on the limb to anaesthatise certain nerves and block out pain, but no it isn't "just injections" as they need to be used with other techniques.
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glad its not just me getting these damn proxy errors
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don't apologise for posting, still can't PM can we?
right got you re the nerve blocks, so if he is pretty much ok it makes diagnosis that way more difficult. Hopefully the scans will show something up if they can't nerve block. Will they scan both legs so they can compare?
Oops sorry Pidge's madness obviously went elsewhere, was it a good passage though?
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thanks fernando, don't know how much the nerve blocks cost I'm afraid, but have had 2 lengthy vets visits, bute, ACP and stuff for leg so think I will be well over excess already
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I had nerve blocks done on my horse a couple of months back. Foot (twice) fetlock and hock. Cost for the blocks and then the x-rays (of both hocks and all four feet!) was £500
 
thanks Izt, I'm not stressed, I'm not stressed, I'M NOT STRESSED
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It's no good I can't convince myself I'm not stressed.................. now where did I put that chocolate?
 
I've never been asked for the saddle.

I got there and horse was walked up and down and trotted up and down. Then flexioned.

Patches was then brought on to a circle and lunged on a hard surface and then a soft surface to compare any differences. Blocks followed, walked around gently for 10 mins to get the local anaesthetic circulated and then flexioned again as well as trotting in a circle on the hard and soft. This was repeated for each successive nerve block.

X-rays (and scans if deemed necessary) then followed. Whole process took about an hour and a half and the vet chatted to me the whole way through. I'd personally want to be there when Pidge has his work up.
 
ouch again, did you claim off your insurance or not? am just a tad concerned that they will then place exclusions on him?
 
Blooming proxy errors! From memory, nerve blocks aren't hugely expensive - vets time is & other diagnostic tools can certainly add up!

They start at the lowest point & work their way up until they see an improvement - what you don't want though, is a sound horse (unless of course he's now sorted - in which case, fab news!). They may try to put him under pressure a bit to bring out the lameness & definitely take your saddle as well as it may be easier to spot the lameness when ridden.

If I were you, I'd stick around if you're able to as you will learn from the experience.

Re what to ask, that just depends on what they tell you - don't be frightened to ask whatever you want though - ask them to elaborate if you don't 100% understand. Don't be frightened to ask 'what happens next', 'how about trying x y or z', 'what did you check', 'what's the treatment/dianosis/prognosis', 'is there any advantage to a referral', 'would a bone scan help'. Loads of Q's just depending on whether or not they identify the problem.

If they tell you to do something that you think may cause a problem (for example box rest & you fear horse will go bonkers), don't be frightened to tell them. Nothing worse than putting the phone down thinking 'omg, what am I going to do?'.

My last Q would always be 'is there ANYTHING else I can do to help - eg supplements, magnets, physio' etc etc. My theory, hit it from ALL angles...

Hope you get a positive outcome.
 
Possible exclusions will depend on the prognosis.

Don't ever take an exclusion lying down though - with the help of your vet, you can often argue them...
 
Yeah I did as Patches then had follow up treatment which brought my bill to over £1800. If you do claim for tomorrow, you'll be able to add the initial consult/visits to the claim as well.

In theory, you should tell the insurance company anyway of such a problem and investigations and it would be excluded whether you claim for the veterinary fees or not. I know that most people don't reveal veterinary treatment to their insurers if they're not making a claim, but technically you should and it could affect any future claims, for lameness on that leg ,if this episode of lameness/treatment is disclosed by your vet at some point the future. Does that make sense?

The good thing though is that the NFU are very specific in what they exclude. Some insurers would exclude the whole leg for this type of claim, but the NFU wouldn't.

Good luck tomorrow.
 
thanks Patches, Dad is supposed to be meeting me at the vets as they are letting me leave horsebox there so will find out when exactly they are looking at him and make sure I am there. I just thought it was normal to leave them there and collect later on?
 
Yes that does make sense. NFU are very good and I had no problems when claiming for Higgs.
Fingers and everything else crossed for tomorrow then, feel a bit better thanks to a bag of minstrels
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