Yard move ....

[throwawayaccount]

My yard you still have to pay £10 arena hire if I want to book a lesson that isn't with their instructors. - is this normal???

sounds a bit money grabbing, but then again, my old yard you had to pay to use the arenas...even if you were a livery. I get paying for the lights etc, particularly in winter .. so, for me that isn't a negative. if you did move, ordering your own hay isn't that big a deal and you could probably jump on the delivery schedule someone else is on. and indoors...well, they're a luxury. as long as the outdoor is properly surfaced and you have a good all-weather coat for you/sheet for your horse if needed..you just crack on

 

[WelshD]

I'd stay where you were if it were me faced with that choice. Unless she is an exceptional instructor I'd not give up on more grazing, an indoor school and an undercover stable personally

 

[Red-1]

I am struggling to understand what you mean when you say she is not 'officially insured?' Is there some unofficial insurance? How does that work? Is she insured through her employer at the yard you intend to move to, but doesn't have insurance to teach in her own time? Would she be insured to teach you if you move to her yard?

Is she doing teaching legally or not claiming wages to the taxman? If so, how legit is the yard? Is that insured as a business for liability? If not, is it safe, are there risk assessments etc?

It sounds as if she is off teaching elsewhere with no insurance. It sounds like a bit of a wing and a prayer, I think I would avoid that person, unless I just don't understand something?

 

[Deltofe2493]

I'd stay where you were if it were me faced with that choice. Unless she is an exceptional instructor I'd not give up on more grazing, an indoor school and an undercover stable personally

you're right I feel like I'm the one trying to accommodate her teaching me... whereas I'm the one paying her so she should technically try and find a way to make it work for the both of us, not just me fitting in her schedule.

BUT saying that she is very good and has always been supportive.

Tbh, might not move to her yard, but have found another yard close by which has everything I'm looking for except individual turnout... no meter for lights / walker. No cost to hire the arena for lessons and although have to buy own bedding would be allowed to use straw. Just waiting for them to come back to me on the cost.

I do like my yard set up and my horse is happy, but like I say - the owners likes things their way and liveries have to work around the owners i.e. not wanting me tying up outside while I'm mucking out (where else can I put my horse???), not being able to lunge in the school and having to find a key to the round pen and rake it afterwards and working around the riding school etc. is a bit frustrating

I have booked in another instructor for next week who I have seen reccommended on FB - so see how that one goes!

 

[Deltofe2493]

I am struggling to understand what you mean when you say she is not 'officially insured?' Is there some unofficial insurance? How does that work? Is she insured through her employer at the yard you intend to move to, but doesn't have insurance to teach in her own time? Would she be insured to teach you if you move to her yard?

Is she doing teaching legally or not claiming wages to the taxman? If so, how legit is the yard? Is that insured as a business for liability? If not, is it safe, are there risk assessments etc?

It sounds as if she is off teaching elsewhere with no insurance. It sounds like a bit of a wing and a prayer, I think I would avoid that person, unless I just don't understand something?

sorry apparently I can't type English - she is just not insured. She just works freelance. She started off helping me when we were at another yard together when I was struggling so it just became a regular thing.

 

[Chianti]

sorry apparently I can't type English - she is just not insured. She just works freelance. She started off helping me when we were at another yard together when I was struggling so it just became a regular thing.

Doesn't it worry you having lessons from someone who isn't insured? It's Ok until something goes wrong.

 

[Deltofe2493]

Doesn't it worry you having lessons from someone who isn't insured? It's Ok until something goes wrong.

She's a lot more knowledgable than me and I would rather have somone on the ground supervising than me get in a tizz on my own when mare is being a cow lol so I felt a lot more comfortable paying her £20 - plus she knew how to call a dressage test! OH is useless lol.

 

[Deltofe2493]

UPDATE --

Went to view the other yard yesterday

Negatives
- changing environment - will this bring on ulcers??
- they only supply haylage - is this better or worse for horses prone to ulcers?
- individual turnout at the moment. If another mare comes, they can have individual but if another mare comes then we would be in pairs.
- same mileage distance but 3 mins further - 16 min drive - am I being a diva???
- No overnight turnout in the summer

Benefits
- £260 a month for DIY including haylage. £40 a month for ad-lib straw & £30 a month to do catch in Mon-Fri for the month (handy as I work in an office and they catch in aroud 3/3.30pm) - currently paying £285 incl. own field and ad-lib hay. Mare is mucky so going through 2-3 bales per week at £8 per bale.
- undercover stables (one with a window available for ventilation)
- indoor and outdoor school
- undercover wash bay
- can lunge in outdoor school
- don't have to pay to book arena for lesson & don't have to pay for lights
- flexible with instructors
- £15 a day for full livery - current yard is £25. I travel with work so away 4 days at least once a month so this would save me over the year
- Owner has a box she said she would be happy to take me out as long as fits in with her schedule etc. Cost TBC
- Off road hacking
- Walker free to use

Thoughts?

 

[Arzada]

Thoughts

Returning to the question, what's in this for the horse? I would never keep a horse out in the summer by day with heat (increasing each year), flies etc and in then in at night which is when horses choose to be out because it's cooler and the flies are largely absent

For me I would never want out in pairs when the pair has separate owners (unless of course it's with a well known friend and even that could become problematic)

 

[Deltofe2493]

Returning to the question, what's in this for the horse? I would never keep a horse out in the summer by day with heat (increasing each year), flies etc and in then in at night which is when horses choose to be out because it's cooler and the flies are largely absent

For me I would never want out in pairs when the pair has separate owners (unless of course it's with a well known friend and even that could become problematic)

More variety of work. I mainly school at the moment as it's a faff to find the key to the lunge pen which doesn't have lights. So lunging / hacking is saved for weekends and I don't over work so just do one or the other. But also don't love to hack as it's main roads to the woods and I used to love hacking her out pre-injury! (we were at another yard with less road work)

And then school 2-3 times in the week if that if I can find space to ride with all the pony club / riding school going on. I would also be able to afford to have lessons and become a better rider so she can become stronger and use herself correctly etc- she's a tb so likes to have her brain occupied. We're very rusty after 6 months of walking in straight lines. But also selfishly this is what I would like too, DO horses really care about this stuff??

Why do you say that re paired turnout? Is that because of attachment or injuries?

 

[Andrew657]

Would you be allowed to get your own duplicate of the lunge pen key - as this seems to be one of your biggest irritations

 

[Deltofe2493]

Would you be allowed to get your own duplicate of the lunge pen key - as this seems to be one of your biggest irritations

?? it really is! I work full time and part time so am always in a bloody rush getting from one place to the next! So this is an extra step and time which could be spent cuddling my pony

I don’t think my YO would go for it, only staff have a copy of the key

 

[Arzada]

Why do you say that re paired turnout? Is that because of attachment or injuries?

Those are certainly a concern if one horse can't be left alone and/or one is overly dominant. People have different ideas about how they want things done, how they treat horses and you won't know who you will end up sharing with.

 

[jules9203]

This makes my blood boil!! You are thinking about changing yards so you can continue to have lessons with someone with no insurance. if that yard allows it then the chances are that yard has no insurance either. Are you really happy putting your horse and you at risk? It doesn't matter how much an instructor knows or how lovely a yard appears. If there is no insurance in place you are taking a serious risk. Would you go with a driving instructor that has no insurance?

 

[Deltofe2493]

Those are certainly a concern if one horse can't be left alone and/or one is overly dominant. People have different ideas about how they want things done, how they treat horses and you won't know who you will end up sharing with.

so they will catch in Monday - Friday for £30 a month and they have a yard rule that no horse is left out alone. The field she would be in is about 10 steps away from the barn.

if crazy mares do come owner has said she has a chill gelding she could go out with.

not just changing yards for lessons with no insurance, it is generally all round cheaper and with the cost of living etc I am trying to keep my head above water.

with spare cash I can afford lessons with someone with insurance!

also I’m away at least 5 days a month next year and my current yard is £25 a day and new yard £15 a day, so that’s quite a bit of cash per month and over course of the year.

I have also advertised for a sharer but will be quite picky if someone does respond

 

[Patterdale]

This makes my blood boil!! You are thinking about changing yards so you can continue to have lessons with someone with no insurance. if that yard allows it then the chances are that yard has no insurance either. Are you really happy putting your horse and you at risk? It doesn't matter how much an instructor knows or how lovely a yard appears. If there is no insurance in place you are taking a serious risk. Would you go with a driving instructor that has no insurance?

Makes your blood boil? Get a grip.

It’s absolutely not comparable to a driving instructor. And doesn’t affect you at all.

 

[jules9203]

Patterdale - I believe the OP asked for opinions, that's mine and I do believe insurance is important. If, because of something the instructor says, the rider has a life changing injury who is going to cover the cost for any changes that need making to their home for wheelchair use/ 24hr care?

 

[Patterdale]

Patterdale - I believe the OP asked for opinions, that's mine and I do believe insurance is important. If, because of something the instructor says, the rider has a life changing injury who is going to cover the cost for any changes that need making to their home for wheelchair use/ 24hr care?

But that’s the choice the OP is making isn’t it? It doesn’t affect you and there’s no need to be angry.
We all make choices in life and they’re rarely the same as everyone else’s.

Disagree by all means but I just personally don’t like to see angry ranting at people just because you don’t agree with their choices.

 

[Deltofe2493]

Honestly thank you for the honesty and opinions it’s what I’ve asked for and really wanted to hash this out from an objective POV!

I did post up thread about a new instructor but I still have to pay £10 to use one of the 3 arenas even on a Monday when the riding school is shut which adds up over the month!

 

[ycbm]

It wouldn't bother me at all to use an instructor with no insurance. Nobody is doing anything illegal. If i was silly enough to do something dangerous that they told me to do I wouldn't be suing them for it. I've never asked an instructor their insurance status, that's their problem if they want to take that risk (edit - that I might sue them). Novices are different, maybe, but I really don't see any problem for an experienced rider on a horse they know well.
.

 

[Deltofe2493]

Back to the original question -

opinions on new yard?

or should I just stay put and suck up the costs / jobs and accept it’s all part and parcel of having a horse?

 

[throwawayaccount]

new yard seems OK, i personally don't like the idea of no overnight turnout in summer.

maybe chat with your vet about the possibility of moving yards and any further ulcer management you may need or any advice they can give?

 

[Deltofe2493]

new yard seems OK, i personally don't like the idea of no overnight turnout in summer.

maybe chat with your vet about the possibility of moving yards and any further ulcer management you may need or any advice they can give?

that is my biggest fear too ?

I did chat to her yesterday and we’ve said start her on a calmer for a week before I leave (if I decide to) and feed hay and haylage for a week until she gets used to the change in diet

I am one of these people though thinking if it’s cheap is it cheap for a reason? Or are my current yard costs extortion idk

 

[throwawayaccount]

that is my biggest fear too ?

I did chat to her yesterday and we’ve said start her on a calmer for a week before I leave (if I decide to) and feed hay and haylage for a week until she gets used to the change in diet

I am one of these people though thinking if it’s cheap is it cheap for a reason? Or are my current yard costs extortion idk

mm... usually.

as an example, I was on a yard years ago (6-8 yrs ago) and the livery was done by the girl who ran the yard. but she actually did it properly and very cheap. it worked out brilliantly for me

but then I've noticed a lot of livery services now tend to cut corners, they're lazy etc, don't do the full service or charge you for it but again, aren't doing everything you want and 'forget' things.

i feel your pain in trying to find a yard that ticks all the boxes. my current yard was meant to be just that but things keep cropping up and presenting themselves as new issues [that weren't meant to have been]

i won't derail but yeah i can definitely relate!

 

[Deltofe2493]

It's just frustrating because I spent almost £300 with strangles / ehv & gutteral pouch tests to move to the yard I'm at. I always knew I was going to spend more on shavings but I counteracted it as they run shows / clinics on site so it meant I wouldn't have to box. I've done 1 clinic (which wasn't even that good) and the past 2 shows that were due to be hosted have been cancelled because they've had clashes with other shows so I ended up hiring a couple weeks ago which on top of the costs I'm already paying is just working out too much for me.

I completely agree - the last yard I was at part livery she clearly wasn't being fed or kept in a routine. She would have random turnout buddies as they were a dealers yard with little turnout so it was whatever suited them. No wonder the poor thing has ulcers so that's why I am apprehensive with someone else taking care of my horse. I know I am not perfect but she's happy and sound now so trusting her in someone else's care is a huge thing for me.

I'm away max 5 days at a time so perhaps I get OH to go and check on her when I'm away just to make sure things are being done and keep her on DIY.

Re things cropping up - my YO shouts over to me this morning while I'm minding my own business mucking out 'have you got your money' 1. good morning to you too. and 2. money for what?? (it's for a lesson on saturday)

 

[Winters100]

It wouldn't bother me at all to use an instructor with no insurance. Nobody is doing anything illegal. If i was silly enough to do something dangerous that they told me to do I wouldn't be suing them for it. I've never asked an instructor their insurance status, that's their problem if they want to take that risk (edit - that I might sue them). Novices are different, maybe, but I really don't see any problem for an experienced rider on a horse they know well.
.

Same. I don't see riding with an uninsured instructor any more risky than riding with no instructor. Maybe a beginner should be more worried, but as a relatively experienced adult I would simply say 'no' if an instructor asked me to do something which was obviously dangerous. To have any come back on an instructor, insured or not, you would need to prove not only that they told you to do something obviously irresponsible, but also that you did not have the knowledge to recognise it as such and to refuse. This seems to me to be a pretty high bar for an experienced adult riding their own horse.

There seems to be a misconception that ensuring that those around us (grooms, yard owners, trainers) have insurance somehow protects us. It is only a help in case they are found to be directly responsible for an accident, in this case it is, of course, useful in order to ensure that they will have the funds to pay an amount awarded by a court. An insurance company would almost always contest that there is liability, and they have enough resources to defend themselves and their clients rigorously. Those who worry about who would pay for adaptations to their house and necessary care in the case of an accident would be better to take out a policy themselves, and to make sure that they do not stray outside of the terms of the policy.

I am trying to imagine a scenario where I might feel that an instructor would be responsible in case I had an accident while taking a lesson, but I am afraid that I simply cannot think of one.

 

[Barton Bounty]

From what it sounds like your happy to move, the only way you will know is to do it. Wouldnt worry me about being kept in at night, If your horse is happy to. Mine would come in every night ?

 

[Deltofe2493]

I do want to move but also want to make sure she’s happy.

there’s part of me that thinks I’m being selfish and my YO is completely correct and I’m throwing my toys out the pram because it’s not the way I want it but if my horse is happy do I just stay put?

tbf she was in / restricted turnout most of this summer anyway due to box rest and only went out august - October. Would have brought her in sooner if shavings weren’t so bloody costly ffs