yard owners insisting on cash?

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FionaM12 said:
I'm another who doesn't understand why you or your Mum cares what tax they pay. If you go through life worrying about who pays what, or receives what benefit and feel hard done by, then really your life wouldn't be worth living.

Maybe they just find having a regular supply of cash convenient, especially as you're the only livery. But really, who cares? If you're happy in every other way, I wouldn't risk causing bad feeling.
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You have been lucky enough not to get caught up in someone elses tax problems ;)

Pan
 
PandorasJar said:
Request a receipt. This way it's in writing and proves you've paid each month.

I personally prefer bank as it is easier to keep track of. We know if it's been paid monthly and it's easy to keep a record.

If we have cash (which several pay in) we always put it through the books.

Remember pubs etc generally pay in cash and still put it through the books. Maybe their yard staff are paid in cash and it makes life easier? If so I would request it but I wouldn't enforce it.

If you don't want to do cash say that you are not always around a bank monthly and prefer not to carry that much cash on you. You'd prefer setting up a order as you don't need to worry about forgetting to pay.

Pan
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Thank you very much for the advice.

I think my mum probably also likes to keep track of spendings so obviously it is easier for her to just glance through a cheque book/bank statement to see what has gone out etc - not so easy with cash!

Thank you again :)
 
OP - I'd first up offer to do a bank transfer / standing order. If YO reason for wanting cash is purely down to inconvenience/bank charges then they should be happy with this.

If YO refuses and insists on cash, then it is perfectly possible they are doing a tax dodge. Now this is down to them and really not something you need to get involved with. What I would say is someone dishonest enough to dodge tax, is likely to be dishonest enough to claim you haven't paid, or kick you off no notice etc ... to that end I would not be handing over any cash without obtaining a signed receipt.
 
Personally i don't this it's any of your mums business what they do with their money. Just ask for a receipt or set up a standing order. Not a big deal really...
 
When we used to have liveries we used to prefer cash as the shavings and hay deliverers wanted paying in cash, and the farrier also wanted paying in cash, so it was easier to have the cash in a pot.

We had two DIY liveries that had haylage included for £25/wk. We didn't declare it, rightly or wrongly. To be honest, after the price of making the haylage and treating the land etc, plus the general wear and tear on the yard and fields, it didn't make a penny for us. If you add on the cost of insurance and business rates, it means that you make even less.. If you then factor in the liveries themselves, who were very self centred thoughtless people, you come to the conclussion that we did - get rid of the liveries and keep the place for yourself!

So your mum may have a chip on her shoulder about people not paying tax on renting stables, but if she looked at the whole picture instead she may see a lot more. At the moment she sounds like someone who will get you kicked off the yard sooner or later!
 
ihatework said:
OP - I'd first up offer to do a bank transfer / standing order. If YO reason for wanting cash is purely down to inconvenience/bank charges then they should be happy with this.

If YO refuses and insists on cash, then it is perfectly possible they are doing a tax dodge. Now this is down to them and really not something you need to get involved with. What I would say is someone dishonest enough to dodge tax, is likely to be dishonest enough to claim you haven't paid, or kick you off no notice etc ... to that end I would not be handing over any cash without obtaining a signed receipt.
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Ihatework thank you - with the way the cash is handed over at the moment yes it could be very dodgy as it doesn't actually go hand to hand so I will definitely do something to make sure we have some sort of proof of paying :)
Yard is nice but YO does a lot of money haggling/bargaining so we do need to be careful!!

Sorry if thats a crime too everyone :D
 
Honey08 said:
So your mum may have a chip on her shoulder about people not paying tax on renting stables, but if she looked at the whole picture instead she may see a lot more. At the moment she sounds like someone who will get you kicked off the yard sooner or later!
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Oh gosh she wouldn't get me kicked off I think the only conversation she has ever had with the YO's is "oh its raining" sort of style and turns up at that yard once every couple of months. I think the cash thing just worries her - she is not horsey or yardy!

:)
 
Iv always paid cash, no receipt, no contract, just free roam off the place and the yo...... Well I only see him once a month when I go to pay him and been the same for 4 years. He's not interested in my horses or what I do and I don't want him to be so alls good.
Just the way I like it
also pay cash for farrier,hay,feed actually I don't even own a cheque book
 
My mum and I are setting up a standing order for the future as decided it will be easier and there is proof of paying and it means she can keep track of spendings better.
So everybody on here can take a long deep breath and stop getting angry now :)
I think my mum is just one of those people who like to do things properly and know where everything has gone etc and that she is clear from any tax confusion and everything :)

All sorted thank you very much for the advice everyone left.

Anna :)
 
Black_Horse_White said:
Glad you and your mum have sorted it out. And you don't need to apologise for worrying about other people evading tax. It's their problem and not yours if they choose to do it.
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Thank you :) It's just like Pan said they had got caught up in it before even when it wasn't them evading. We just feel much more comfortable to know everything is being done honestly :)
 
Am glad you've sorted it, but for future reference, lots of farmers and country folk prefer cash as it's easier. Nothing to do with tax evasion.
 
When I moved to my current yard, I offered the farmer cash as I thought he would prefer it. But he won't let anyone pay in cash! He wants either cheque or standing order. I like to pay by cash just because I'm not waiting for the money to go from my bank account. But he's pretty good and pays the cheque in straightaway - doesn't sit on it for weeks like some.
 
I always pay my yard owner cash and prefer to do it that way. Our yard is not run as a business as it's his private home. Whether or no he declares it is upto him.
 
Standing order is the easiest way, which sets up monthly payments of a fixed amount on a fixed date until you decide to cancel, tho if at another bank not the same as yours it can take a couple of days to get to them so agree with them what day it will go from your account, find out what bank they are with and then ask your bank how long it will be before the money gets there. Max 3 working days, min same day but depends!

Key good thing is that when it arrives in their account it will be cleared funds and they wont have had to troll to the bank to pay it in. And also there will be a record on the bank account it comes out of, you can choose what reference to put so you can put horse livery and their surname or something which could then be used later to prove.

Any extras can be covered by cash but I too would ask for a receipt which could be the bill itself crossed through and Paid marked on it with a date and sig by them.

I wouldnt get involved in tax affairs of someone else unless they also appeared to be claiming benefits and definitely had some massive cash income they werent declaring. I dont think a single livery comes into that category unless they are running a multimillion pound gunrunning operation on the side......
 
There could be many reasons why the YO may want cash other than tax evasion. I run a livery yard and have five livery clients all on part or full livery. I don't even come close to having to pay tax even though all my payments are made by cheque or direct bank transfer. When you add up all the expenses to run the yard, which can also include all running costs of a lorry or car and trailer, business rates, electricity, water, feed, bedding, maintenance, etc it is not likely that many yards pay much tax. Also, if they have a business bank account, it will cost them for every cheque that they pay in. They may also get better deals on essential items if they pay by cash. So if it is not causing you any problems personally, then it is nothing to do with you their reasons behind wanting cash.
 
Actually, I pay my livery online. I just log on at the beginning of the month and pay it. It goes into YO's account instantly.
 
i have always paid cash on yards.

I dont care what they spend the money on thats none of my business - i pay for my stable and field and thats that :)

I dont get a recipt ive always gone on trust - if i couldnt trust my yard owner.manager - i wouldnt be there!
 
I was at a yard where cash was insisted on. It was a pain for me as with more than one horse on livery, I couldn't take the full amount out of a cash machine in one go. So I either had to go into the bank and queue :rolleyes: or go to the cash point more than once.

Anyway after a while they pissed off a few liveries who left then dobbed them in to HMRC. After that bank transfer was acceptable :D

Whether it is your business if they are evading tax, I don't know. I pay tax so I don't see why other people think they shouldn't have to :mad:
 
I must admit I do get a bit amused when people who bang on about single mums and benefits etc etc seem to not mind a bit of tax evasion ;)

Id want to cover my own back re receipts as yes, mistakes are made and paid payments can be forgotten about, and if it comes down to a query in 6 months time Ive not a hope in hell of being able to prove Ive paid cash if I dont have a receipt :)
 
I have a small business and guess what my customers like to pay in arrears by cheque, but I have to pay up front for all my supplies. Cash is real, cheques are bits of paper with words on, they have to be taken to a bank and then wait ten days to see if good or not.
It is not very likely that they will be making a profit [on which they have to pay tax], but miracles do happen however if they are running a business which they are hiding from the Inland Revenue, they will be caught some time or other. Just ask for a receipt, keep all details in one little cash book if this is easier.
Banks may charge per cheque being put in to a business account, but if cash is paid in it will only be one transaction charge.
 
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