Yard owners view on worming!!

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midnight mayhem

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Just had a call from a fellow livery at my previous yard (I left months ago after my horses were fed un-soaked beet by another livery.)
Anyway-YO has told her off for over worming her horses. She wormcounts twice a year and then worms twice a year for the ones the wormcount does not pick up (tapeworm etc I'm assuming) YO thinks worming is not needed as the other livery (same one whom fed the unsoaked sugarbeet) does not worm/wormcount her horses at all. So now YO now only wants horses to be wormed every two years if they have to worm at all. I'm lost for words-anyone else had an experience like this before? What are people's thoughts? Sorry if this post was hard to follow.
 
Is this a BHS recognised yard? You friend could get a leaflet on sensible worming protocols and pass it to YO and other livery.


Our YO, not horsey, is the opposite - insists we blast the poor horses 5 times a year whether they need it or not. You have to buy the wormer from the YO since they feel we might lie about doing it otherwise. This means the owners of a very old and of a cushings horses on special meds have to argue their case quite hard to avoid doing it. One just buys the stuff bins it and uses the one her vets recommends for her horse instead.
 
As a bare minimum I'd want my horse to have 1 x encysted red and 1x tape a year. TBH I'd just worm my horse out of sight of YO if I liked the yard in every other way!
 
midnight mayhem said:
Just had a call from a fellow livery at my previous yard (I left months ago after my horses were fed un-soaked beet by another livery.)
Anyway-YO has told her off for over worming her horses. She wormcounts twice a year and then worms twice a year for the ones the wormcount does not pick up (tapeworm etc I'm assuming) YO thinks worming is not needed as the other livery (same one whom fed the unsoaked sugarbeet) does not worm/wormcount her horses at all. So now YO now only wants horses to be wormed every two years if they have to worm at all. I'm lost for words-anyone else had an experience like this before? What are people's thoughts? Sorry if this post was hard to follow.
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If I remember right even the worm count lab we use recommends worming twice a year.
 
This is a difficult one as some vets (i.e. my previous vet) sent out worming reminders 4X a year but the one I've got now says don't do that do a poo sample check instead. So basically there is a huge divergence of opinion, obviously, and I feel it is a little unfair to lambast the YO here, in the circumstances.

Although having said that, if the yard in question operates a shared grazing policy, then there needs to be a co-ordinated approach to worming.

If each livery has a separate grazing area, then surely YO can use discretion and say to each livery that they're responsible for worming (or not) their own horses in the timeframe that they see fit?

Personally, if I was the "friend" that OP is concerned for, I'd be inclined to do regular poo checks and show the results to the YO. If worming is needed, fine, if not, don't do it. Simples. Any vet worth their salt would back up that policy surely.
 
I could understand a YO asking a livery to worm or worm count but what does it have to do with the YO when a livery is worming. I would tell them to mind their own business :mad:
 
wallykissmas said:
I could understand a YO asking a livery to worm or worm count but what does it have to do with the YO when a livery is worming. I would tell them to mind their own business :mad:
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If horses have free access to pasture and are not required to be stabled for 24 hours after being wormed, it has everything to do with the YO - because of the chemicals deposited on the land.
 
amymay said:
If horses have free access to pasture and are not required to be stabled for 24 hours after being wormed, it has everything to do with the YO - because of the chemicals deposited on the land.
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Personally I don't keep in for 24 hours I poo pick every day, regardless of the land and how the ops friend is running the set up for a YO to tell an owner they can't not worm their horse twice a year is madness imo, but then we all do things differently.
 
Horses are not allowed to be stabled on this yard as YO also does not agree with this. I dont know what the reason for the two yeAr thing is. Lord knows-just glad I moved as I've never been one for being told what to do with my own horse!
 
If I really wanted to stay there and it was only the worming situation that was a problem I would just say "Yes, yes, whatever" and worm my horses the way I wanted regardless.

As a YO I do tell my Boarders when de-worming is due and what we are worming for (and what is suitable) at a given time, no one has ever turned around and said "I don't worm", but then it is in the contract that a de-worming programme is followed, I don't give people a choice, worm or don't keep your horse here. Most owners choose to let me provide the wormer and administer it when I am doing the others in their paddock.
 
The need for worming is surely proportional to the stocking rate? If we don't know that, we are all guessing.

For some reasons, the Americans don't seem as enthusiastic about worming as we do. I've always wondered about that.
 
It's not just tape and encyested though is it, bots and pinworms aren't picked up either. Isn't it only small red worms that the count picks up on anyway? So what about all the other worms? And a worm count to me aren't reliable anyway and people have had problems with colic thinking the counts are clear so no need to worm. I don't think a lot of people relise it's only a snap shot of that time and the eggs that are in that certain piece of muck u used, a different piece of muck could give u a different Reading.
 
Any horse that comes here at livery goes onto my worming programme.
I bulk buy getting discount and worm all the horses on the same day. Livery gets charged at cost.

No one has ever gone against this.
 
I was at a yard with no grazing management, an enforced working programme of twice yearly if lucky! I assumed the horses would have a high worm burden & counted mine - 3500 RPG was the result. Yard owner actually said to me when I showed her the result "worms don't kill horses" needless to say no longer at that yard. Seems lots of yard owners are clueless about worming.
 
thatsmygirl said:
It's not just tape and encyested though is it, bots and pinworms aren't picked up either. Isn't it only small red worms that the count picks up on anyway? So what about all the other worms? And a worm count to me aren't reliable anyway and people have had problems with colic thinking the counts are clear so no need to worm. I don't think a lot of people relise it's only a snap shot of that time and the eggs that are in that certain piece of muck u used, a different piece of muck could give u a different Reading.
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The other types you mention are generally picked up symptomatically and treated as and when/if required, also some are included in the wormers that are absolutely required.

That means a wormer for encysted redworm, and (unless blood testing to see if its needed) a tapewormer. Both annually. Regular wormcounts will pick up dangerous levels of the other worms but not encysted stage or tape - both of which can be dangerous incl the colic risk.. so you are right about people being dangerously misguided to solely rely on worm counts - as misguided as people who solely rely on throwing wormers at their horses and not thinking about resistance.

Edited to add I would not follow a yard rule that prevented worming that is the required standard for tape and encysted, esp as it can be done in one dose of pramox. (Nor would I follow a yard rule which insisted on blanket frequent worming for every single type of worm as long term thats as harmful for horses in general).
 
amymay said:
If horses have free access to pasture and are not required to be stabled for 24 hours after being wormed, it has everything to do with the YO - because of the chemicals deposited on the land.
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I think and I may be wrong here as the OP post is not clearly worded.

1) Her friend worm-counts and worms for tapeworm and encysted redworm etc. twice a year presumably unless worm-count indicates it should be more frequent. This is sensible and in accordance with good practice.
2) YO says she only should worm once every two years which is clearly nonsense.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I think and I may be wrong here as the OP post is not clearly worded.

1) Her friend worm-counts and worms for tapeworm and encysted redworm etc. twice a year presumably unless worm-count indicates it should be more frequent. This is sensible and in accordance with good practice.
2) YO says she only should worm once every two years which is clearly nonsense.
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well said. YO is NOT acting in the horses welfare and given their position of control they are responsible for doing so. If they were adamant I would be getting a vet to 'have a word' with them. If they want to restrict turnout after worming to ensure the dung is removed and not on land, that would be their right, but not to prevent the recommended minimum worming.
 
Liveries went on to our worming plan. If they disagreed and didn't want to worm (unless with medical reasoning/vet advice etc for using a different wormer which was fine or strict worm counts and sufficient wormer the rest of the year) they didn't stay. Yard horses frequently come and go from hacking to competing to field rotation to changing yards. No way I'd personally be happy without at least worming my horses 1-2 times per year with pramox (dependant on herd movements and worm counts). On the yard if we let a worming plan slip (and there were some on the yard who would happily never worm or count) it would be our grounds that suffered. If people provided an alternative that was fine, but it was clearly stated from the start.

If over worming with the same wormer it could be come ineffective, but I wouldn't be happy with worming once every two years when only some worms show in worm counts, some in bloods and some in nothing.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I think and I may be wrong here as the OP post is not clearly worded.

1) Her friend worm-counts and worms for tapeworm and encysted redworm etc. twice a year presumably unless worm-count indicates it should be more frequent. This is sensible and in accordance with good practice.
2) YO says she only should worm once every two years which is clearly nonsense.
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Do you know, I read the initial post as twice a year.........

My bad.
 
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