Yearling injured during professional training, should I claim?

And who would you have blamed had 2 lunge lines been used and your 'bad to load youngster' got tangled in them!

Take the blame for something you yourself could have prevented by correctly handling him/her!!
Jesus, people are always quick to want to claim/sue nowadays and half the time the problem is their own making!
 
Buy a rampless trailer or park on a banked area so the ramp is not steep for the yearling. There was no negligence on the trainers part so suing will just cost you more money.
 
SusieT said:
If the professional is not insured that is their bad.
When they are being paid to educate a horse and owner they are responsible for ensuring that nobody gets hurt- Vets are the same.
Therefore you should have a good case against them -what have they said?
I know to some it may seem mean claiming when the horse had a history- but that is why these people are qualified professionals and the idea is that they can resolve the situation without the horse getting hurt- i.e this is why the owner employed them.
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I have to say that I agree with this. If the professional can't be expected to load the horse without injury, OP, or any of the rest of us, might just as well invite Joe Bloggs from down the road to 'have a go' at getting the horse onto the box. Surely the whole point is that the professional advertises their ability to get better results than the owner, or indeed Joe Bloggs. If the owner can't rely on that, there is no point in employing the expert.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I have to say that I agree with this. If the professional can't be expected to load the horse without injury, OP, or any of the rest of us, might just as well invite Joe Bloggs from down the road to 'have a go' at getting the horse onto the box. Surely the whole point is that the professional advertises their ability to get better results than the owner, or indeed Joe Bloggs. If the owner can't rely on that, there is no point in employing the expert.
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So if you had a rearer, and got a professional in to try and resolve the issue, would you expect that the horse would instantly not rear with them? Of course the horse is going to still leap off the ramp whilst the issue is being sorted.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I have to say that I agree with this. If the professional can't be expected to load the horse without injury, OP, or any of the rest of us, might just as well invite Joe Bloggs from down the road to 'have a go' at getting the horse onto the box. Surely the whole point is that the professional advertises their ability to get better results than the owner, or indeed Joe Bloggs. If the owner can't rely on that, there is no point in employing the expert.
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But it's absurd to expect that any horse is 100% predictable?
You honestly think the professional showed negligence in their handling of the horse, based on what we have heard?

A friend of mine got kicked by another horse during a clinic, serious open fracture. So many people told her to sue the RI ... or the other horses' owner. She luckily healed well from her accident and got on with her life, but I dread to think how much it would cost to even get something like this to court. A woman kicked on a bridleway a few years ago spent over £20,000 suing the owner of the horse (well, her insurance company as it happened), only to be told by the judge that horses can be unpredictable and she'd not been encouraged or invited to approach the horse and therefore shouldn't have got close enough to get kicked. Horses be horses.
 
Moomin1 said:
So if you had a rearer, and got a professional in to try and resolve the issue, would you expect that the horse would instantly not rear with them? Of course the horse is going to still leap off the ramp whilst the issue is being sorted.
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No, but I would expect the pro to put the baby steps in place to minimise the risk to all involved as far a s possible. TBh I think that only OP's insurance company can answer the original question, which I am sure they will, when she gives them the details of what happened in order to cover her vet bill.
I do wonder what some people do if they are involved in a car accident - do all these 'no claim' people refuse to contact their insurance company?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
No, but I would expect the pro to put the baby steps in place to minimise the risk to all involved as far a s possible. TBh I think that only OP's insurance company can answer the original question, which I am sure they will, when she gives them the details of what happened in order to cover her vet bill.
I do wonder what some people do if they are involved in a car accident - do all these 'no claim' people refuse to contact their insurance company?
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A car accident is completely different. Cars are not animals, which are unpredictable, particularly those with issues. How do you actually propose that this professional prevent a large strong animal from leaping off a ramp, on the second only attempt at resolving the issue? Loading a problem horse is always going to be a risk, and you can be the best professional in the world, but you are still going to have to accept the rough with the smooth whilst trying to sort it out. Now, if the professional beat the horse stupid, or tried loading it on a busy main road, then fair enough. But OP says the horse simply did what it normally does - leap off the ramp, which is the very issue that she called him out to resolve. Therefore naturally, the horse IS going to jump off the ramp whilst the problem is dealt with. It's a bit like saying a professional can prevent a horse which backs out of a trailer at rapid speed on the first attempt at loading it. It's not going to happen, the problem has to occur in order for the professional to work on it.
 
So if you fell off your own horse and got injured while being taught by a professional instructor it's OK to claim against him because he is a professional and therefore should not allow you to fall off??

Oh and another thought, did it have travel boots on? Injury probably could have been avoided if it did have!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
No, but I would expect the pro to put the baby steps in place to minimise the risk to all involved as far a s possible. TBh I think that only OP's insurance company can answer the original question, which I am sure they will, when she gives them the details of what happened in order to cover her vet bill.
I do wonder what some people do if they are involved in a car accident - do all these 'no claim' people refuse to contact their insurance company?
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OP can of course ask her insurance company if they wish to pursue the trainers insurance company .
She can claim against the trainer for the excess and damages if she chooses to , if she lucky the trainers insurance company might pay out to avoid cost if she's unlucky and she pursues it to court and looses she will be exposed to them seeking to recover their costs from her so she had better start thinking about how she going to prove the trainer was negligent rather than this was an unfortunate accident .
 
Goldenstar said:
OP can of course ask her insurance company if they wish to pursue the trainers insurance company .
.
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She probably won't need to ask them, they will ask her for every detail of the incident and will tell her if they decide to claim from the pro's insurance company. If the pro's insurance co meets that claim, OP will have the basis of a claim for her excess. It isn't a personal vendetta against the pro, it is the way of the world and is why sensible professionals in any field make sure that they have adequate insurance.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
No, but I would expect the pro to put the baby steps in place to minimise the risk to all involved as far a s possible.
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Just wanted to remind everyone, it's a yearling the OP has. Yearlings, if not loaded regularly as little ones, are notorious for leaping off trailers. Doesn't bother me as I have a huge trailer with no ramp so I don't have to be concerned about them injuring themselves. They learn over time to not do it, but it is definitely not unusual for them to do it the first few times.
 
Spring Feather said:
Just wanted to remind everyone, it's a yearling the OP has. Yearlings, if not loaded regularly as little ones, are notorious for leaping off trailers. Doesn't bother me as I have a huge trailer with no ramp so I don't have to be concerned about them injuring themselves. They learn over time to not do it, but it is definitely not unusual for them to do it the first few times.
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One of mine used to jump in and out. I just used a long rope and stood clear. Eventually she understood the concept of stepping onto the ramp and walking up and down, she now loads and unloads fine.

To expect nothing to go wrong because you have hired a professional is unrealistic, you are dealing with a live animal with a mind of its own who has no idea that it's supposed to behave impeccably because it has a professional on the end of the lead.

Suck it up, pay the vet bill and have some lessons yourself on working with young horses.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
She probably won't need to ask them, they will ask her for every detail of the incident and will tell her if they decide to claim from the pro's insurance company. If the pro's insurance co meets that claim, OP will have the basis of a claim for her excess. It isn't a personal vendetta against the pro, it is the way of the world and is why sensible professionals in any field make sure that they have adequate insurance.
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If you put in a claim for a damaged leg caused by an accident loading they are not going to say who else can we pursue for this they will pay for the injury it's vets fees cover , if you are freelance groom leading in a horse from the field and it spooks and falls over damaging a knee would you expect to be liable ? Because that's what you're saying anything that happens while you are offering a paid for service is your fault .
I never said it was a vendetta against the pro I am simply saying OP will have to prove the trainer was negligent it's not the pro's fault just because it happened the law allows for stuff happening every trainer who has a pupil injured in a fall is not liable for that fall , every teacher who has a child hurt on a school trip is not liable.
Bad things happen all the time often no one is liable for them it's just an accident
 
Goldenstar said:
If you put in a claim for a damaged leg caused by an accident loading they are not going to say who else can we pursue for this they will pay for the injury it's vets fees cover , if you are freelance groom leading in a horse from the field and it spooks and falls over damaging a knee would you expect to be liable ? Because that's what you're saying anything that happens while you are offering a paid for service is your fault .
I never said it was a vendetta against the pro I am simply saying OP will have to prove the trainer was negligent it's not the pro's fault just because it happened the law allows for stuff happening every trainer who has a pupil injured in a fall is not liable for that fall , every teacher who has a child hurt on a school trip is not liable.
Bad things happen all the time often no one is liable for them it's just an accident
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You are quite correct in that accidents happen.
However, I can assure you that if a child is injured on a school trip, or indeed in school, beyond a minor graze, there is a full investigation of the incident. Parents do make claims against schools, for which the school is insured. Teachers are usually insured through their unions against allegations of wrong-doing, which *may* be discovered through the investigation of an incident.

That is somewhat different from the case of a self-employed person, presumably, advertising or otherwise claiming that he is capable of dealing with a problem loader and teaching it to load safely. Which again is different from a self-employed, or employed, groom leading a horse to/from the field in the normal course of their day. The groom has not claimed any special skills that the owner does not have, just the time to do the job.

IME insurance companies want to know the details of any incident leading to a claim on them from thread to needle, with a view to finding another party who can be claimed from, or wriggle out of paying in some other way.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
You are quite correct in that accidents happen.
However, I can assure you that if a child is injured on a school trip, or indeed in school, beyond a minor graze, there is a full investigation of the incident. Parents do make claims against schools, for which the school is insured. Teachers are usually insured through their unions against allegations of wrong-doing, which *may* be discovered through the investigation of an incident.

That is somewhat different from the case of a self-employed person, presumably, advertising or otherwise claiming that he is capable of dealing with a problem loader and teaching it to load safely. Which again is different from a self-employed, or employed, groom leading a horse to/from the field in the normal course of their day. The groom has not claimed any special skills that the owner does not have, just the time to do the job.

IME insurance companies want to know the details of any incident leading to a claim on them from thread to needle, with a view to finding another party who can be claimed from, or wriggle out of paying in some other way.
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'Special skills' do not include the ability to physically prevent a large strong animal from jumping off a ramp if it chooses to do so. It includes the skill to gradually work on that issue and rectify it, not magically wave a wand. A professional trainer who reschools problem horses, cannot instantly stop those horses from rearing etc the second they get on them. The horse is still going to rear to start with. However professional and experienced they are, they are not going to be able to prevent the behaviour happening instantly, it takes time.

Most children going out on school trips are not unable to understand basic instructions, are not 200kg plus, and are not being asked to do something that is essentially very alien and potentially dangerous to them, unlike a yearling.
 
The most dangerous part of loading is going up and down the ramp and the potential to fall off the ramp and injure the lower leg, anyone who has horses and travels them should know this. Adding a lunge line will not stop a horse from falling off a ramp, it may steer it but there could be a potential risk to the people on the end of the lunge and to the horse if it bolts through taking the person holding the line.

As a risk assessment I would be more worried about people than the horse. I have quite a few youngsters, when I get them some are a but wary of the ramp, with food patience and standing well back they usually learn to negotiate them in their own time. If it was a real problem I would have got hold of a 3.5 tonne lorry with a low ramp and used it as a stable for a week.

I am sorry your horse has been injured, lower limb injuries take a while to heal but who ever was loading this would have been a risk, every time you load or unload you take that risk. You are angry because he did not use the lunge lines, but if the people had been injured he would could perhaps be deemed responsible for their injuries as he would have no idea of their capabilities or experience.
 
Goldenstar said:
Or caused it if they made a youngster panic when it started jumping about .
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WHat happened to doing things like putting rugs, saddles, boots or whatever on as part of basic training, in controlled and relaxed conditions so that the youngster gets used to it? Or stepping over obstacles, plastic sheets, through puddles?
 
carolineg said:
I actually suggested we had a lunge line each to keep her straight and prevent the filly hurting the professional but the professional didn't want to. If we had had a lunge line each side as I had suggested, she wouldn't have been able to fall off the side as she did.
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Yes she would, a lunge line aint going to stop a horse. Even if it is only a yearling. Saying that the trainer will (should) have insurance. Not sure how a claim would go though, you were there when it happened?
 
If this had happened to me, then this is why my horse has insurance. Yes, there is the first few hundred that needs to be paid, however, this should never be an issue as you know yourself you should have this ready for the occasion anyway.

If my horse had a known problem, I would not blame someone else for any injury occuring whilst getting someone else to sort it - unless it was obious negligence and amateur-ness. But then I wouldn't use them nor let it get to a point where injury is caused. It seems more rotten luck than negligence.

Accident can happen at any point. Insurance is for that.

By all means, if you are not happy with their service, no longer use, recommend them or review them highly, but far as insurance goes...I wouldn't be persuing them. Be glad you are insured.

Speedy vibes for a quick recovery.
 
Sorry, but with animals come costs. I am presently paying over £100 a month for prescription food for one of my cats, yes he is insured but food no longer covered. I am not going to sue my vet for keeping him alive to eat the food! I am thrilled he is still with us after expecting to lose him months ago.
Sorry but I really can't understand the mentality here. If money is more important than a life then you need to decide if owning animals is really what you want.
 
Who is to hold these lunge lines, would a panicking youngster bother? I have seen lorries with gates, and youngsters could put their foot through them, if you knew he was a leaper was the lorry on grass, was he booted, there are so many things to consider, I really don't think he can be considered negligent because he did not use your method, in a way your previous methods had failed.
 
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