Yet another delightful rider..... not..... when will this end?

eahotson said:
We shall have to agree to disagree.
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I don’t hold the same view as you on CDJ but I will say it’s good to have someone with a different view for the sake of discussion.
I didn’t particularly like Sport Horse saying you can’t have an opinion if you’ve not officially complained but it also brings something to the discussion and the more it’s spoken about the better for horses surely.
 
This is why I have zero patience with people defending her behaviour. That horse has been abused and will have permanently lost trust and confidence in people. It’s totally unacceptable and no one has shown any interest in the horse who experienced the abuse. As someone who owns a pony who was abused, they never fully get over it and you have to manage them so carefully. This should have been a come to Jesus moment where BD stepped up to put the welfare of the horses at the centre of the sport, rather than just brushing it under the carpet and expecting everyone to just forget and move on.
 
I'm Dun said:
I dont understand this, youve commented so many times about cruelty in sport and how bad horse sports are. But you think CDJ should now be welcomed back with open arms? Make it make sense because I dont get it
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Maybe because I think we are all human and err from time to time and the general standard of care in Carl's yard is good.I believe in second chances and I have met genuine cruelty from someone who really knew what they were doing.Charlotte isn't even on the same page.
 
eahotson said:
Maybe because I think we are all human and err from time to time and the general standard of care in Carl's yard is good.I believe in second chances and I have met genuine cruelty from someone who really knew what they were doing.Charlotte isn't even on the same page.
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She hit a horse 27 times while complaining the whip wouldnt let her hit harder. That means shes done it before as you cant know a different whip hits harder unless youve used said whip to hit harder. But because some people are worse this is fine even though horse sports are bad and horses are mistreated doing them? I'm totally confused.
 
I'm Dun said:
She hit a horse 27 times while complaining the whip wouldnt let her hit harder. That means shes done it before as you cant know a different whip hits harder unless youve used said whip to hit harder. But because some people are worse this is fine even though horse sports are bad and horses are mistreated doing them? I'm totally confuse
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I don't think she made much contact.The horse appeared more irritated than anything.It is not something I would do but,as I have said many times,she has been severely punished. Time to start again and not all cruelty involves hitting a horse.
 
eahotson said:
I don't think she made much contact.The horse appeared more irritated than anything.It is not something I would do but,as I have said many times,she has been severely punished. Time to start again and not all cruelty involves hitting a horse.
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No, but some does! Does she need to demonstrate a collection of noxious behaviours? And intention also matters. She wanted to hit the horse (who has clearly been damaged by her experiences of this sort of thing, whether CDJ alone or more probably others too for which we have no evidence) harder than she could.
 
BurntontheoutsideTurkey said:
No, but some does! Does she need to demonstrate a collection of noxious behaviours? And intention also matters. She wanted to hit the horse (who has clearly been damaged by her experiences of this sort of thing, whether CDJ alone or more probably others too for which we have no evidence) harder than she could.
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How do you know it has been damaged.??
 
eahotson said:
You have read something?That is not proof.I truly don't understand your obsession with Charlotte, I really don't.
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It is horse welfare I'm interested in and she along with other elite riders discussed here appears to be antithetical to that. Given that she has just now popped back into public prominence and is being fawned over by large numbers of undiscriminating people on SM, she is the topic du jour. In turn, I don't understand the servile worship of a fairly flawed, over-ambitious, unempathetic human (a description that applies to all these riders) by those people.
 
BurntontheoutsideTurkey said:
Being accused of being obsessed as if an interest in welfare is a bad thing. There's lots of that on FB posts on this subject.
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Ah yes, if someone can't shut down negative opinion, they resort to personal criticism and insults. It's very strange on a discussion forum, but happens a lot.
 
Look, if you have done something to deliberately cause unnecessary pain and distress to a horse, it's not a mistake, you have done it before and you have been exposed doing it, it doesn't matter one bit if someone somewhere has done something worse. If you hadn't been exposed, would you still be doing it? Because why would you stop if you had started down that path in the first place and you have been getting results?

It doesn't matter WHO is doing the abusing. It matters that some people don't seem to see a horse as a sensitive, intelligent being in its own right. It is just a dumb animal, a tool to make money, garner prestige and adulation from fans and boost your ego.

A horse is not a thing to force to bend to the will of a human. It is a sensitive animal, with an incredible generosity. They let a predator climb on top of them and push and pull them around, then try to do what is asked, even if they don't understand it.

How much better would the world be, if people were as generous and understanding as horses?
 
St Nicnaclaus said:
What we don't know is how the horse was treated outside of the CDJ video. If the owner and rider were on board with that type of training then possibly it was just the norm for them.
Pleased to read the horse is now in a respectful home.
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But this has all been discussed on another thread on this forum. The owner of the mare was not on board - did not like the treatment. I can't help but think that a particular youtubing Australian 'horsewoman' had a lot to do with the whole debacle, esp since it is believed that she is the one who put the footage out there in the public eye. (And it is thought that she was the one who was laughing in that footage, and i have to say, I agree with that, taking into consideration her behaviour in a different video - which is in this thread.)

I was shocked at the time to finally realise who the Australian woman was, not because I knew her (I didn't) but because I'd seen a couple of her videos. (And because she's Australian.) And I think this is why a lot of you Brits feel so shocked and appalled and all the rest of it - CDJ is one of you guys. But I think the footage of that woman (the other woman) abusing someone else's horse (which has been talked about on this thread) is worse than what CDJ did.
 
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eahotson said:
You have read something?That is not proof.I truly don't understand your obsession with Charlotte, I really don't.
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Whipping a horse 27 times IS abuse, and it makes no difference whether it's an elite, professional trainer, or Joe Bloggs at the local livery yard.

This was very clearly not a momentary lapse, and while it is very much just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the abuse of competition horses, I think we've agreed numerous times on here that the only way to tackle abuse is to call it out wherever it happens, and whoever it is meting out the abuse.

My own personal opinion is that it might have been better for her to have done an interview where she expressed genuine regret and remorse, and gave assurances around the training methods she is using now.

It wouldn't have stopped all the bad feeling towards her, but it would have helped I think.

I also don't think the media trumpeting about her triumphant return was particularly wise, and has definitely contributed to the bad feeling towards her.
 
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