Yikes, thats some attitude...!!!

palo1

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I barely ever join in threads like this but blimey! It will all be fine OP. You have bought a young horse you like and he has some current issues with his manners and respect. You don't have to spend loads of money necessarily on youngstock livery/professional yards or employ esoteric internet/youtube based training methods. Accept where you are and the fact that this horse may take more time to untangle. Slow down any kind of plan and do NOT 'crack on'!! Do you have a professional who can support you? If not, find a sensible and sympathetic someone who can work with you, within your budget and with your existing facilities. Accept too, that this may be a steep and possibly difficult learning curve. It would be helpful for this horse to have more company possibly so how about approaching a charity for a companion or even two (possibly a strong mare who can instill some manners into the young'un). If this horse has not been within a herd so far, it is not a total disaster nor is it something you must make up for at great cost to yourself. It just is what it is. He can still be a perfectly fine, functional horse! He may or may not be too much for you but at 2 and a half, you can't yet say. If you like him, work with him till he is a better chap and has a better chance in life. I would turn him out with the other horse/horses for a week or so and just allow the normal kind of interaction of feeding, checking, putting on a headcollar, tying up etc. Don't ask more than that just yet possibly. If need be, don't cause more anxiety by taking away his only security (your other horse). But slowly, slowly ask for a tiny bit more, making sure that anything you ask for is responded to as you want it to be; politely, attentively and respectfully. If you ask too much, go back a little but try not to get stuck with repeating the same 'safe' actions! If he leads nicely away from the other horse one day, the next day just ask him to walk through the gate politely, turn and wait before walking back through the gate and back to his pal nicely for example. You may find it very hard work and rather demoralising but many people have and can deal with tricky horses in less than ideal situations; you may or may not want to be one of these!! Good luck, he is a really smart sort.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Not lunging, no. But a lunge rein nevertheless. You need this so that you are safer, and to also give you the advantage of leverage. This youngster, as far as he is concerned, is in charge, and you (or someone) needs to show him that he isn't.

A good book is an Australian publication by Tom Roberts, called Horse Control -- The Young Horse. He talks a lot about the use of leverage.


The post I quoted advocated lunging!

I wouldn't use a lunge-line for leading either. IME, the handler is safest close to the horse's shoulder, a longer line gives more leverage to the horse, who is bigger and stronger anyway. But I do agree that the horse needs to learn that he is not in charge.
 

BOWS28

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Bless you OP. I really feel for you, youngsters are not always easy!! A good friend of mine has always had youngsters and not one of them have ever been the same! She spent years having to adapt her set up etc to fit the horse until the most recent. He has been a dream and settled straight away and couldn't care less whether he is on his own or all 4 of the others are out with him!!

Firstly, i would chill and consider the pros and cons of where you are. YOU are happy here, it is convenient for you and staying somewhere familiar will always make you feel relaxed as possible. You say there is the option of getting him more company. i think this would be a fab start. Once he is settled at 'home' you will find he will be more willing to interact with you as 'mum'. Yes you don't have all the facilities in the world, but i know people that have produced youngsters with much less!! You will find when he is abit more open to building a bond with you, you being relaxed in a familiar, comfortable environment will be a lot of reassurance for him! There was something you liked when you first saw him - don't give up on that! All good things come to those who wait. Give him time to adjust. Get him some more friends. Maybe there a people near by in a similar situation to you? A couple more youngsters in the field will give him time to socialise, learn some manners and maybe put him in his place. All skills that will help you in the long run, but will be put in place naturally without human interference.

Once he has had some time to calm himself down and is ready for the next step, begin with the catching and feeding routine. at 2 1/2 i can't imagine he needs a feed at all if you have grass. When catching, make it part of the drill to have him stand quietly while you open the gate. Open it wide enough so that you can walk through side by side. Each week ask for a little more and repetition is key. if he barges, he should be expected to walk back out through the gate and do it again and again until it is done quietly. Don't tell him off to correct him, just repeat until you get the desired reaction.
Grooming may also be a nice addition to your one to one time. My girl has a scratchy spot above her wither which makes her go weak at the knees. She completely relaxes and you could do it for hours!

He's a very smart boy OP. Don't give up on him just yet. Good Luck x
 

Roasted Chestnuts

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Op I think you need to calm down and take a step back. He’s new to you and you are new to him. He is used to getting his own way and has never been anywhere.

I have a youngster who I have brought back to a yard with no facilities. We have stables and turnout but no school etc. It’s close to my house and my job (right between the two and is five mins from my house. However I have accepted that I will not be able to keep him there forever as it doesn’t have the facilities I need for breaking in a youngster eventually.

If I were you I would find somewhere to put him that will suit your needs. He will be three this year and will need to start his education and the safest place for you to both do that will be somewhere with stables and a school.
 

MotherOfChickens

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I wouldn't use a lunge-line for leading either. IME, the handler is safest close to the horse's shoulder, a longer line gives more leverage to the horse, who is bigger and stronger anyway. But I do agree that the horse needs to learn that he is not in charge.

I agree with this fwiw, if they build up speed to the end of a line you've not a hope in hell-standard leadrein with a knot on one end and keep him very close. Other than that good luck OP -its very early days. Having had youngsters with no facilities I will add that its very difficult-actually pretty impossible with one thats not so straight forward. I'd keep a contingency plan of sending him somewhere to get him going, even if its just temporary with a view to getting him back anf really working with him over the summer when its easier to be more consistant.
 

scats

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OP- does the field mate regularly leave? Does it go out of sight? Sorry if I missed these details.
I think you can raise a youngster with only one or two others, as others on this thread have done, but it does become more difficult when you don’t have the control over what the other one is doing.
But that aside, it’s very early days, so I really wouldn’t panic.
When I was in my teens, I got my first unbroken project and it arrived and for the first week was like a Tasmanian devil and kept spinning and bombing off when I tried to do anything with it. I remember going home and telling my un-horsey mother that I thought I’d bitten off more than I could chew and she told me that the horse was a baby, had had his whole world turned upside down in the last week, left his friends and his home and arrived in a brand new place with a brand new person who was suddenly expecting things of him and maybe he just needed some time to adjust to what had happened. She was right. I removed any expectation other than he must not do anything to deliberately hurt me, and just got to know him. Within a month he was actually chilled enough to begin his education, and all the worry had been for nothing. A stark lesson for a teenager, that came from a non-horse person. Sometimes we can let emotions and expectation cloud our judgement.

If I were you I would just get to know him and him you. Give him firm but fair boundaries when it comes to handling, but don’t be expecting too much at this stage. Expect that he’s bound to be hot and stressy and likely to freak out if his field mate leaves. He has become extra-clingy because he doesn’t yet feel secure in his new environment and in his mind, his field mate is his best chance of staying safe.
I will admit though, that I do find it easier to have a place to bring them into, such as a stable. I like to be able to have the stable as a place that they know they come in to be groomed and handled etc. That’s totally personal preference though.
 

SatansLittleHelper

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I don't have time to respond in full, just wanted to say that I've carefully read all of the replies and taken everything on board.
I have someone coming later this afternoon that has forgotten more than I'll ever know about horses and that I trust implicitly to be completely honest in her appraisal of the situation. Hopefully then I can start to formulate a plan. Thanks once again for taking the time to reply :)
 

Goldenstar

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This horse needs Time to settle to adjust too a new place different people new rules not sold and cast out into the world again as a problem horse .
No horse however experianced should be assumed to be happy in a field alone or when horses are moved when they are in a strange environment why any one who knowing they had bought a young homebred would be remotely thrown by the issues described is beyond me .
Why get an unbroken horse if you don’t have the facilities and confidence to cope with what perfectly normal .
What hope has a totally inexperianced horse when people are not confident leaders Op choose this horse now she needs to man up and get stuck in .
First thing is a companion she needs to beg steal or borrow a third horse for the field .
She need to catch Daily at the same time and do the same things with him and then put him back out .
Don’t fuss the horse to much be kind clear but distant let him come to you for friendship
Do this for a month and reasses
This is all part of the journey with this type of project if you don’t enjoy it it’s not the right type of horse to choose .
I canot stress enough I don’t see anything that is not perfectly normal and to be expected .
 

oldie48

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A friend bought a rising 3 yr old PRE described as unspoiled. Actually he'd lived with his stallion as the mare was sold and was basically untouched until he changed homes. She has a field and stables and once they'd managed to load him and get him home he settled in the field and into his routine until the first time his friend was taken away which was a couple of weeks later. She'd popped him the stable whilst they were away and he destroyed it. she left him in the field on his own and he jumped out of it. However, she reclaimed the pony I had on loan as a companion and he soon settled again and she could take the other horse away without any drama. It has been uphill for her, she doesn't have the facilities to bring on a youngster so she's had to pay for help, he's been backed twice now as the first time it really wasn't done well, he will now load (he was impossible to load or tie up for months) and he is now polite to lead and that has taken a lot of work. I've hacked out with him (4 now) and he's a sweetie, takes everything in his stride. My friend has talked about how difficult it has been but he is getting there and they have a great bond. He's basically a horse with a good temperament and attitude who just gets overwhelmed at times. Try not to get despondent, it's such early days and if you can get another little pony to keep him company I'm sure that would help. Good luck he's a very smart fellow.
 

LaurenBay

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And breathe!!! you haven't ruined him. You are still getting to know him, he is still getting to know you, as you said his whole world has turned upside down. Give him time to be a Horse and don't expect too much of him. Your best option would be to turn him way with other youngsters for a year and re access then. You could find yourself with a completely different Horse.
 

splashgirl45

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in my ignorance of the best thing for youngsters is turn out with others of the same age(which i now know) , i bought a 15 month old part bred trakehner filly and she went in with a mixed herd of 4 older horses ranging from 6 to 21. we did have stables but no other facilities, i just got her used to me by bringing in at night with the others and a quick brush and pick out feet and the following years i did a bit of local showing and walking out in hand with my friend who was riding hers,,,i had never backed a horse before but knew all of the basics from books etc, broke her myself when she was 4 and had no problems as by then she knew me well. it can be done, she turned out to be a very easy horse to take anywhere and do anything and she stayed with me till PTS at 24...if i was younger i would do it all again as it was a great experience and i had a great bond with her...i would say a companion is a must and let him relax for a while and dont expect too much too soon....good luck hope all goes well...
 

ycbm

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I just don't understand why people are suggesting herd turnout with the same age horses for a three year old. He is old enough and well enough grown to back within a few months at most, if his behaviour calms down. Meanwhile, he needs to learn to trust humans, that humans are leaders not doormats, and that safety lies with humans. He ain't going to learn that sent away to run around a field with a bunch of youngsters. And SLH isn't going to learn how to manage him, or even have her own horse to spend time with and enjoy.

I can't see any benefit at all, to horse or human, in sending this horse away.
 

Tiddlypom

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The OP really does need an easy keeper who will suit her current local facilities. These facilities are convenient for her, are within her budget and will suit an easy horse.

Since I have been on the forum, the OP has owned at least 3 horses, all of which turned out eventually to be unsuitable for her - a coloured sports horse and a coloured cob, who were both sold on, and a bay IDx who was PTS. This new horse would seem to be even less likely than the others to suit her, which is why I think that moving him on is the best option, both for her and for him.
 

Palindrome

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The OP really does need an easy keeper who will suit her current local facilities. These facilities are convenient for her, are within her budget and will suit an easy horse.

Since I have been on the forum, the OP has owned at least 3 horses, all of which turned out eventually to be unsuitable for her - a coloured sports horse and a coloured cob, who were both sold on, and a bay IDx who was PTS. This new horse would seem to be even less likely than the others to suit her, which is why I think that moving him on is the best option, both for her and for him.

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as the horses have been sold onto good homes, perhaps this horse will be different perhaps not but I think it's best for the horse to let him settle down rather than move him again so quickly.
 

Clodagh

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I just don't understand why people are suggesting herd turnout with the same age horses for a three year old. He is old enough and well enough grown to back within a few months at most, if his behaviour calms down. Meanwhile, he needs to learn to trust humans, that humans are leaders not doormats, and that safety lies with humans. He ain't going to learn that sent away to run around a field with a bunch of youngsters. And SLH isn't going to learn how to manage him, or even have her own horse to spend time with and enjoy.

I can't see any benefit at all, to horse or human, in sending this horse away.

I agree with this, I would find a calm gelding to stick out in the field, so there are three, and move on from there.
 

SatansLittleHelper

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Thank you for all of the replies/advice and even critical comments...They have been needed.
I have spent many hours in Bailey's company today, just observing, not handling, along with someone extremely experienced in young horses. She had read through this thread and met Bailey etc and come to the following conclusions:
* Its no wonder people on here think I'm a dickhead because quite frankly I make myself sound like one. 😳😳
* I underestimate my ability with horses but grossly overestimate my physical abilities (I have Fibromyalgia and ME)...which is where my main problems lay when I'm stressing out.
* I have an emotional reaction to horses that seem to have had a hard time and consequently buy with my heart, not my head and this isn't doing me, or them, any favours.
* She sees no advantage to turning Bailey out with a bunch of youngsters but definitely agrees there needs to be a third horse in the field.
* Bailey is mainly reacting out of anxiety, as many of you have said.
* He has almost definitely been punished physically (not suggesting severe abuse) ie been smacked on the face, for biting etc which has escalated the issue.
* She agrees that for the time being I need to stick to the basics and not put any pressure on him. However I must firmly insist he stays out of my space.
* She believes I'm perfectly capable of getting all of the basics right here but feels that physically I will be unable to give Bailey what he needs long term and that ultimately we won't be the right match.

There were many other things discussed but the general outcome is as follows:
* I will very likely have to sell Bailey on to a more suitable home but for at least the next month I'm going to gently, firmly and quietly on his basic manners and teaching him how to relax.
* A third horse will be sought but for the time being it's been agreed that the mare in the field will not be moved from his sight in order to avoid causing him undue stress.
* I will spend as much time as possible passively interacting with him, such as hanging around the field, poo picking etc.
* Nothing else is to be done with him other than catching, tying up and basic handling for at least the next few weeks. Then my friend will come over when she has time to reassess the situation.

All ending in the comments that I'm not allowed to so much as sniff another horse for sale until she has fully approved it as suitable. I'm not allowed to buy anything Under the age of 5, nothing unbroken, sad, mangy, skinny, ancient and nothing with legs skinnier than my own!!
I have to do right by Bailey and then look for the horse I need and not the one I want.
All her words, not mine.
 

Michen

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Thank you for all of the replies/advice and even critical comments...They have been needed.
I have spent many hours in Bailey's company today, just observing, not handling, along with someone extremely experienced in young horses. She had read through this thread and met Bailey etc and come to the following conclusions:
* Its no wonder people on here think I'm a dickhead because quite frankly I make myself sound like one. 😳😳
* I underestimate my ability with horses but grossly overestimate my physical abilities (I have Fibromyalgia and ME)...which is where my main problems lay when I'm stressing out.
* I have an emotional reaction to horses that seem to have had a hard time and consequently buy with my heart, not my head and this isn't doing me, or them, any favours.
* She sees no advantage to turning Bailey out with a bunch of youngsters but definitely agrees there needs to be a third horse in the field.
* Bailey is mainly reacting out of anxiety, as many of you have said.
* He has almost definitely been punished physically (not suggesting severe abuse) ie been smacked on the face, for biting etc which has escalated the issue.
* She agrees that for the time being I need to stick to the basics and not put any pressure on him. However I must firmly insist he stays out of my space.
* She believes I'm perfectly capable of getting all of the basics right here but feels that physically I will be unable to give Bailey what he needs long term and that ultimately we won't be the right match.

There were many other things discussed but the general outcome is as follows:
* I will very likely have to sell Bailey on to a more suitable home but for at least the next month I'm going to gently, firmly and quietly on his basic manners and teaching him how to relax.
* A third horse will be sought but for the time being it's been agreed that the mare in the field will not be moved from his sight in order to avoid causing him undue stress.
* I will spend as much time as possible passively interacting with him, such as hanging around the field, poo picking etc.
* Nothing else is to be done with him other than catching, tying up and basic handling for at least the next few weeks. Then my friend will come over when she has time to reassess the situation.

All ending in the comments that I'm not allowed to so much as sniff another horse for sale until she has fully approved it as suitable. I'm not allowed to buy anything Under the age of 5, nothing unbroken, sad, mangy, skinny, ancient and nothing with legs skinnier than my own!!
I have to do right by Bailey and then look for the horse I need and not the one I want.
All her words, not mine.


Don’t decide anything too quickly. I got told by plenty of instructors and professionals that I’d need to sell Boggle as he would always be too sharp for me.

We’ve had great fun proving them wrong :). Take each day as it comes
 

SatansLittleHelper

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Don’t decide anything too quickly. I got told by plenty of instructors and professionals that I’d need to sell Boggle as he would always be too sharp for me.

We’ve had great fun proving them wrong :). Take each day as it comes

If it's possible to keep him then I will :)
I just need to be very realistic xx
 

DabDab

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Good luck op, hope Bailey settles a bit and you can get a better idea of the horse underneath. But I think your friend is right - as I read your description of Bailey and your description of your set up, I did think 'ah, that's going to be a lot of work, I wonder if that's what she was after'.

You need a horse like mine - substantial, lovely comfortable movement, easy to do, kind. But he's 10 (almost), and him at 3 was hard work. Big young horses can be pretty heavy going unless they're very sedate naturally. Just the size and power of them makes normal behaviour seem more dramatic at times.
 

poiuytrewq

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Out in a settled herd and left alone apart from nice interactions like taking some hay out and a nice scratch if he approaches you for a few weeks at least. Sounds like he needs a good long settled period to let him unwind and relax.
Absolutely this, just a few friends and let him chill, visit him often, give him a rub and have a chat. Let him relax and learn your ok.
 

gunnergundog

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* A third horse will be sought but for the time being it's been agreed that the mare in the field will not be moved from his sight in order to avoid causing him undue stress.
.

You have some good friends. Both the owner of the mare agreeing not to move her horse and the person giving advice. Cultivate them!!! :)
 

Marigold4

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I think you need to change your attitude ASAP. If you are discouraged like this from just a few days interaction, I can't really see you sticking it long term and he will not respond favourably at all.
Take a deep breath and step back for a few days at least to give him and yourself some breathing room. Luckily there are several excellent suggestions of how you can address his stressed behaviour at the moment:

There is nothing wrong with leaving him be and just hanging out in the paddock with him. He will most likely overcome his anxiousness with natural curiosity, probably quicker than you may think. I suggest wearing a hat and taking a lunge/dressage whip in with you for your safety if things go South.
You need to change his living situation, in order for him to grow up well adjusted he needs a herd to interact with. I would never put a horse of his age in with one other horse only (I understand if circumstances are difficult, but you really need to try with this one IMO it's the most important change you can make for him).

I think you'll find you can reassess the situation by taking a step back and making the changes he needs, and these changes will be repaid fully in time. Good luck and remember you've only had him a short time, it will get better :)
 

Marigold4

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So basically I have properly screwed this up already :(
I don't want to mess this poor guy up.
I had an unsettled two year old who didn't like the companion mare who was supposed to keep it company. She kept fence-walking and jumped out at one point. I advertised on FB and someone lent me a little companion pony whose job had been nannying youngsters in the past on a temporary basis. Two year old settled well after that. Don't panic. Been there but it was ok in the end.
 

be positive

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Your friend sounds very sensible, keep her close when you go looking next time, Bailey is a smart boy and is likely to find the right home without too much trouble, if it had been a couple of years ago I would have been on my way today to pick him up!!
 
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