Young Dog Chasing (Killing) Hens

3Beasties

3Beasties

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I'm after some advice please.

My cocker spaniel Lacey is 7 months old. I've had her since 7 weeks and since then she has been bought up around our free range hens.

Despite my best efforts she still finds these too tempting and given half a chance she will chase/catch and would kill. There have been some very close calls but thankfully all hens have lived to tell the tale.

It can't go on though. Up until recently while I am with her she would generally listen and stay away from them but I literally have to be 'on top' of her the whole time. It causes problems when I am not home and other people let her out though. Last week she managed to get hold of one (having not done so for a long time) and since then, even when I am with her she is going for them again. I know it's only natural for her but I need to sort it out.

Keeping the hens in isn't an option and I really don't want to have to keep her tied up every time we are outside. It's bad enough now (not many daylight hours when we are actually out with the hens) but come Summer it is going to be even worse!!

I will obviously speak to my trainer again when we start classes again but just wondering if there is anything I can be working on in the meantime!

It is zero tolerance when it comes to chasing hens but the message just doesn't seem to be registering with her!
 
I introduce my dogs to the hens (and horses) on a long line, such as a soft lunge line. They feel the control but can free range more and if they dash towards something I stamp on the line. Has worked for several rehomed spaniels, but they were all adults, a pup has more trouble controlling their chase instinct. One way to have them learn to cope without chasing is to crate them so they can see but not chase. Works for dogs who chase cats as well, even my JRT
 
Never mastered it. My dog won't think about even looking at them with a stink eye if im about but as soon as im out of sight its curtains for the hens. Some of my hens have wandered into the dog pen never to be seen again. Might not work it out of her, and even if you think you have you may find them gone in the blink of an eye
 
if she has worked out that she can chase when you are not there and she gets self rewarded by the chase then there is in my experience not much you ca do other than contain either the chicken or the dog-unfortunately dogs need never to learn they can do stuff we cannot see
 
No real advice i'm afraid but my cocker was the same and would go for the yard hens.
I have no idea what really clicked in her head but I would just keep her tied up or in the car but then one day she was out and playing with another dog and i realised she was copying him and ignoring the hens, even as they pecked around her. Is there perhaps another hen-friendly dog you could couple her to, to teach her the ropes?

Mrs Spaniel now ignores the hens unless they run and then it gets all too tempting but its half-hearted and she stops as soon as I or anyone call her off.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I've tried the long line idea. That's how she was introduced to them as a young pup. Problem is, she knows when she's on it and when she isn't!

When she goes for them I just have to try and grab her as all re-call goes completely out the window as she is completely in the hunt zone and nothing will break that. I've tried the nicey nicey, I've tried telling her off, neither work. She can be fine for weeks and then suddenly she sees her opportunity and strikes. The only time she really stayed away from them was when she got a shock from the electric fence that was around their pen.

Our other dog, a lab, is hen proof so she has got a good role-model!

Keeping the hens contained is not an option. Instead I need to find a way to be able to teach Lacey that hens are NOT, under any circumstances, an option.

ETA - I did think I had a bit more control over it as when out with her I would take a ball and keep her focused on that but tonight she went for a hen on route to getting the ball, hence posting tonight!
 
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The answer is simple; You send the darling Lacey to me, you go and have lunch, you come back and collect her and she will never chase or kill another hen again, ever.

If I can do it in 10 minutes, so can you.

Alec.
 
We never cracked it with ours. We ended up buying electric poultry netting and fancing them off from the dogs as I couldn't be sure 100% I could trust them. Ours didn't kill the hens they would just pull all their feathers out.
 
Alec is right, the dog needs to learn not to chase the chickens and that can only be done now if you really mean it !
 
My patterdale x was a nightmare for chasing birds of any description, even to the point that she jumped into a river to chase a swan once, I nearly died of fright. She only ever managed to kill one but only because I never let her get the chance.

One day when she was about 8, we had recently moved, and she went up the lane to visit the neighbours chickens and ducks. She met their goose and came home very fast indeed! She never chased another bird again.
 
I'll tell you about a shepherd I know but don't tell some on here or they'll be up in arms ! The man in question has the best dogs I know and the best relationship you could imagine with them all. They would do anything for him and with him scarcely having to say what to do. True one man dogs......anyway, one time I went round for a coffee and he had a young dog that barked when I pulled up. My shepherd friend went out and in no uncertain terms the dog was told that was unacceptable. That was it, non of his dogs barked, he thought it annoying and so wouldn't tolerate it. I and I expect Alec would be of the opinion that one short sharp lesson works better than any amount of softly softly training that never gets through to the dog .....just tell your dog it's not to chase the chickens and mean it !!
 
Doormouse said:
My patterdale x was a nightmare for chasing birds of any description, even to the point that she jumped into a river to chase a swan once, I nearly died of fright. She only ever managed to kill one but only because I never let her get the chance.

One day when she was about 8, we had recently moved, and she went up the lane to visit the neighbours chickens and ducks. She met their goose and came home very fast indeed! She never chased another bird again.
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We do have a goose but one of the first things she did when we got her home as a tiny pup was to chase him, it wasn't funny but quite a sight. She hasn't chased him for a lonnng time but although he is the hen's 'guard' she seems to find away around him (we have a large property so I guess goose can't cover it all!)
 
3Beasties said:
We do have a goose but one of the first things she did when we got her home as a tiny pup was to chase him, it wasn't funny but quite a sight. She hasn't chased him for a lonnng time but although he is the hen's 'guard' she seems to find away around him (we have a large property so I guess goose can't cover it all!)
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I suspect he was a very aggressive goose and I am fairly sure he pecked quite hard and certainly chased her which frightened her a lot. We had much the same with our rottie as a pup, we had an old ewe who had been a bottle fed lamb and in her old age lived in the yard. She saw the rottie pup wandering round the yard minding her own business and charged her, bowled her over and over. It was awful to watch but the rottie never ever chased sheep.
 
Crikey, I expected the wrath of the righteous. A relief! :)

3B, I will share PMs with you if you like, but an open discussion may prove to be of more use. It's very rare for the most determined dogs to learn a lesson from one event. I have a 4 yo Cocker bitch here, and we have Guinea Fowl as well as everyday hens. When she arrived (2 yo), she caught one and killed it, and though she's never done it again, BUT …….. every time she comes out of her kennel and sees them in the yard she looks at me to see if I'm watching her!

We can't expect any sort of compliance from a dog when the basics of simple obedience aren't in place. We pile temptation upon temptation, slowly and only when we have a measure of control. Expecting a dog 'not to' (and dear lord that applies to Cockers!), is asking a bit much. First, we need compliance, not from the standpoint that we're pleased or relieved, but that we WILL be listened to.

The delight(?) of your dog, for me is what decent spaniels are about. Short of a visit to North Norfolk (though you'd be most welcome), I'd suggest that you place a lead on her, walk about amongst your hens and feed them, and ANY attempt to chase them is jumped on and from a height. Imposing your will upon the strong-willed isn't about causing pain but having the dog 'listen' to you.

Another ploy could be that assuming that you have her in a 'down' position, that you leave her where she is (scruff her and replace her if she moves) and you then feed the hens. Any attempt to move needs remedying. When she understands that the hens are your property, then she'll show both them and you some respect!

The trainer of spaniels will use your pup's drive to good effect, but that's not what you want, I realise. She sounds just about ideal! :) To achieve a level of obedience, and the maintenance of a reasonable flock, young Lacey needs to understand, and it may be a bumpy path. Your level of displeasure is the only likely remedy (that or stick her in the post and send her to me!) :)

Do you have any competent gun dog trainers near you?

Alec.
 
Once a dog chases it is very difficult to stop it as it self rewarding every time there is a slip up. The only way to protect your hens it either to shut them up when the dog is out, or keep the dog on a lead.
 
Thank you for your reply Alec

Crikey, I expected the wrath of the righteous. A relief! :)
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Oh no, not at all, I am definitely in the 'short sharp lesson' camp with this one! She is however, above all, a pet. Lives in the house, shares my sofa and sometimes even my bed!

My concern with dealing with this in a firmer way is that she seems to lack confidence around people and I would hate to do something that would set her back in terms of that. She is an odd one as comes across as VERY confident at times but in certain situations she's a real worrier and is really rather shy of people (something we are working on!). She also seems to takes offence very easily and it can take a while to get her back on side!

Saying that though, she is extremely trainable so I am sure there is a way to solve this.

3B, I will share PMs with you if you like, but an open discussion may prove to be of more use. It's very rare for the most determined dogs to learn a lesson from one event. I have a 4 yo Cocker bitch here, and we have Guinea Fowl as well as everyday hens. When she arrived (2 yo), she caught one and killed it, and though she's never done it again, BUT …….. every time she comes out of her kennel and sees them in the yard she looks at me to see if I'm watching her!
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If you weren't there and someone else let her out would she go for them? I can't be there all the time and I can't seem to drum into everyone else the importance of NOT giving her the chance to go, once she's gone it's too late, she's had her reward!

The delight(?) of your dog, for me is what decent spaniels are about. Short of a visit to North Norfolk (though you'd be most welcome), I'd suggest that you place a lead on her, walk about amongst your hens and feed them, and ANY attempt to chase them is jumped on and from a height. Imposing your will upon the strong-willed isn't about causing pain but having the dog 'listen' to you.

Another ploy could be that assuming that you have her in a 'down' position, that you leave her where she is (scruff her and replace her if she moves) and you then feed the hens. Any attempt to move needs remedying. When she understands that the hens are your property, then she'll show both them and you some respect!
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I will give both a try, thank you! I suspect she won't attempt to go for them if on a lead but we will see. Likewise, if I am right by her I'm not sure she will make her move. Every morning I let the hens out when she is with me. She will sit and stay a short way away from them (generally without me even telling her to) and then follows me away from them without a second glance BUT I don't know if that is more to do with the shock she got from the fence months ago and is therefore cautious around that area!

The trainer of spaniels will use your pup's drive to good effect, but that's not what you want, I realise. She sounds just about ideal! :) To achieve a level of obedience, and the maintenance of a reasonable flock, young Lacey needs to understand, and it may be a bumpy path. Your level of displeasure is the only likely remedy (that or stick her in the post and send her to me!) :)
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Her drive is rather incredible, and when it doesn't involve terrorising our hens I LOVE watching her work!! The speed in which she covers the ground is quite scary but does give me such a thrill. One of her favourite things to do is to find tennis balls so although not the 'real' thing in terms of working, she is getting to use and develop her natural instinct to hunt and retrieve.

Do you have any competent gun dog trainers near you?
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I'm sure there are but I wouldn't know who! Any ideas, Hereford area? Although I don't intend to 'work' her I have been thinking about some general lessons anyway as I think it would provide me with some useful training tools/exercises that could improve her general obedience and give her something to think about!

Here's a piccy of the little monkey!
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12208255_1069264253113570_6574710572420733745_n_zpsqelmhhe2.jpg
 
Dry Rot said:
Oh, I know! You are going to distract her with treats! :D
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Oh treats are great for teaching useless things like this :biggrin3: :biggrin3:

[video=youtube;ICnfv9Qf7CQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICnfv9Qf7CQ[/video]

[video=youtube;B-OSiJBtZOM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-OSiJBtZOM[/video]

[video=youtube;mv8o8w7l72k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv8o8w7l72k[/video]

But fresh chicken wins over cooked sausage any day of the week in her eyes lol!
 
I was being facetious!:)

My GSD pups are now 12 weeks old and have discovered the 30 or so OEG hens on free range. When they are in hot pursuit, I trundle along behind with a schooling whip and give them a whack on the butt at the same time as I shout "Leave!". They have suddenly discovered that chasing hens is not so much fun after all and now also respond to the 'Leave" command. The 'Leave" is a warning that to continue to do what they are doing is dangerous, but other than that it is nothing to do with me.

IF they kill a hen (and that day will come), the corpse will be hung on the electric fence and I shall disown any association with it. If they get a shock, it is the hen that did it -- I am the nice guy at all times and won't be around to get the blame!
 
Dry Rot said:
IF they kill a hen (and that day will come), the corpse will be hung on the electric fence and I shall disown any association with it. If they get a shock, it is the hen that did it -- I am the nice guy at all times and won't be around to get the blame!
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I did similar with my lurchers and lambs (let a ewe beat them up) - they say now adays that it can make them worse. Didn't with mine though...
 
Ok... I am prepared for the backlash that will come from me posting this, but I know it helped me so it's worth sharing!

My Dane X Doberman was horrendous for chasing things when he was young. I got him from the blue cross at 6 months having had no training and no time outside until he got there.

In the end the way I solved it (after trying EVERYTHING else) was to borrow an electric collar from the gamekeeper. He wore it for one day. He went to chase chickens, got a hefty zap, he went after the sheep, same thing. And now, ten years on, I trust him implicitly with all manner of farm animals. He is no longer a chaser. He's a pleasure.

(Running away now).

Eta the thing that worked about the collar was that he didn't associate it with me. In his eyes the chickens and sheep zapped him, so he ran straight back to me. Worked wonders.
 
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according to my barbara woodhouse book (which was given to me by an undoggy person) you have to use a half dead chicken with some squalk left in it and whack the dog around the head with it.
other advice for car-chasers- get friend to drive by and if the dog attempts to chase the car then said friend lobs a book at the dog,preferably a yellow pages.

i am not saying to do this,it is just what i read in an old book.lol
 
EQUIDAE said:
I did similar with my lurchers and lambs (let a ewe beat them up) - they say now adays that it can make them worse. Didn't with mine though...
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Not quite the same thing. Yes, some dogs will be made worse. Terriers, for example, especially some breeds, will be 'turned on' by the infliction of pain. So, rat bites dog; dog then decides every rat should be eliminated. But some dogs will be put off rats altogether.

I do not approve of sticking a dog in with an aggressive ewe or tup. Much better to walk it through a field of sheep, on the lead, and tap is on the nose with a small switch when it even looks at sheep with the word "Leave!" (Some will object to this because 'it hurts the dog'. No pain, no gain -- sadly!). Sheep and lambs running away are particularly tempting. After a few lessons, the dog won't even want to look at sheep!

The short answer to the OP's question is that working dogs should be locked in a kennel unless under the immediate supervision of their owners. They have been bred with a high prey drive for centuries and it's a bit late to expect them to change their ways now. Also, chasing a ball is the sure way to train a dog to chase. Teach them to Sit on command when pups, then to Sit when they see something moving, like a rolled tennis ball, then it is easier to train them to Sit to a rabbit or a bird flushing, as they should do. The response should be automatic as you are merely replacing one behaviour (to chase) with another (to sit) which is what training should be all about.
 
Alec is right, it is just a question of HOW, and the very best way is how a bitch reprimands her pups. Scruff him, roll him on the ground and stand over him in a threatening manner until he becomes submissive. He won't be scared of you any more than he was scared of his mother, unlike if you wallop him, and he is a smallish dog, not sure I would want to do it with a GSD or a rottie :).
Sudden sharp and very shocking makes them very reluctant to risk the same result in future - like the dog who chased a cat round the corner of a house and ran slap[ bang into a tiger. You just wouldn't risk it would you?
 
Starzaan said:
Ok... I am prepared for the backlash that will come from me posting this, but I know it helped me so it's worth sharing!

My Dane X Doberman was horrendous for chasing things when he was young. I got him from the blue cross at 6 months having had no training and no time outside until he got there.

In the end the way I solved it (after trying EVERYTHING else) was to borrow an electric collar from the gamekeeper. He wore it for one day. He went to chase chickens, got a hefty zap, he went after the sheep, same thing. And now, ten years on, I trust him implicitly with all manner of farm animals. He is no longer a chaser. He's a pleasure.

(Running away now).

Eta the thing that worked about the collar was that he didn't associate it with me. In his eyes the chickens and sheep zapped him, so he ran straight back to me. Worked wonders.
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No back lash from me. It's no different to the shock she got off the electric fence but just means it works in all places, not just around the chicken house. Short, sharp lesson for what will hopefully be a lifetime of peace.

(Not saying that this is what I will be doing but I am in no way against them being used correctly and have used one in the past myself!) *runs away with Starzaan*
 
Years ago we had exactly the same problem with our springer - unfortunately she did manage to kill a number of ducks and chickens. An old gamekeeper friend told me a trick to cure her. Bunny huggers look away now! We tied a dead duck to her collar for about ten days so that everywhere she went she trod or tripped over her feathered victim 24 hours a day. It was sad to watch but by the end she so hated this new companion that she wouldn't even look in the direction of the chickens etc. We finally removed it (much to the relief of all) and from that day on she gave the poultry a very wide berth, including walking round them the long way rather than go anywhere near them. It was a short sharp lesson she never forgot and when she chased our sheep she was locked in with a ram for a few minutes - that also worked.
If you don't have any 'casualties' to use try getting an intact bird from a butcher. This trick certainly worked for us and you have nothing to lose if you give it a try.
 
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