Young horse bucking - tack issue or balance?

[millikins]

Just supposing you are in or near Hampshire, TDS in Alton are not retained by any brand and have a range of 2nd hand saddles as well as new.

 

[Red-1]

That's a good point. Yes this one was £630 new which, as you say, you can likely get a decent leather one second hand for not too much more but sadly my fitter didn't offer me the option - it was this one or nothing and, because I trusted her judgement, I went with this one.

She was fine hacking in it last Sunday so will see what she's like tomorrow on our next hack!

I would not ride out again for 2 reasons...

1. You suspect the saddle is causing your horse an issue, where previously there was none. For this reason alone I wouldn't put the saddle back on the horse.

2. The saddler has, kindly, offered a full refund if you return the saddle. I presume this was under the understanding that the saddle has had little use. It seems unfair to keep using it, and then deciding to return it when it has more use.

 

[lannerch]

That's a lot of baby horse! What size did he grow to? She's bucking during the canter, sometimes just kicking out with one leg as if something is bothering her. She had physio 3 weeks ago with no reported soreness and she's been fine in her ridden work between then and the new saddle. I'll hack her tomorrow then try in the school one evening and see if it happens again.

That’s exactly what my boy used to do , one legged kick out most of the time. He is now 17.3 and age 19

 

[Mimi2005]

Just supposing you are in or near Hampshire, TDS in Alton are not retained by any brand and have a range of 2nd hand saddles as well as new.

They sound ideal but sadly I'm up north

 

[Barton Bounty]

They sound ideal but sadly I'm up north

How north? Like scotland north? I know a lady cicily jeffries and she is the borders ?

 

[Mimi2005]

I would not ride out again for 2 reasons...

1. You suspect the saddle is causing your horse an issue, where previously there was none. For this reason alone I wouldn't put the saddle back on the horse.

2. The saddler has, kindly, offered a full refund if you return the saddle. I presume this was under the understanding that the saddle has had little use. It seems unfair to keep using it, and then deciding to return it when it has more use.

I don't know if it will be a full refund but hoping so as it is barely used but you make a good point, thank you.

 

[Mimi2005]

How north? Like scotland north? I know a lady cicily jeffries and she is the borders ?

No not that north, West Yorkshire

 

[Mimi2005]

That’s exactly what my boy used to do , one legged kick out most of the time. He is now 17.3 and age 19

Very big lad! Yes, bless her, there is definitely no malice in what she is doing, just looked like irritation

 

[Hallo2012]

id say saddle.

I've just had one made for my 4yo and after a couple of rides he wasn't happy, just a bit of snatching and head tossing and not wanting to canter-you could say its just being 4yo but nothing else had changed.back in old saddle and after a tentative 5 min was fine.

saddler has adjusted a few things and re flocked and he seemed happier but i now have a fortnight to see how it progresses and if STILL unhappy saddler will swap it for a different saddle no drama and no more ££££ as he agrees you cant argue with what the horse is saying despite on paper it looking a great fit.

if its making the horse buck its not fit for purpose and id be looking to return for full refund.

 

[sbloom]

Thank you, that's a good idea re getting something second hand but it's knowing what to look for that I find tricky. Fitters all seem to specialise in certain brands nowadays whereas back in the day they used to source you what you needed and bring a variety to try.

It's expensive to stock multiple brands, REALLY expensive. Unless you want to run a big tack store and several fitters it's often just not possible. On the second hand front there is little margin left in them, if someone only fits second hand saddles then it'll be nearly impossible to make a living - the internet has brought buyers and sellers together, the former want to buy as cheaply as possible and the latter want to sell at the highest possible price.

Bucking into canter - often the saddle running forwards into the shoulder and/or tipping back, or possibly too long. It's really common and no, the same effect isn't felt in the walk or trot. I am slightly concerned that this is news to the fitter. I am also of the belief that horses suffer nerve impingements, just as we do eg sciatica, and some of those can have these (often mild but not always) slightly "explosive" or sudden reactions.

Did the saddle fitter see you ride? Red flag and against all codes of conduct yet even lots of "qualified" saddle fitters (none of the qualifications are technically anything other than an accreditation) don't see customers ride.

 

[tda]

No not that north, West Yorkshire

Sarah Steel is Wakefield area, and used to have a range of 2nd hand SADDLES, she is mega busy tho.
Àlso Angela Brock, she is top side of Bradford if you can find her on fb she has a range of 2nd hand, often wider fits, but worth a try
And I wouldn't use the wintec saddle again either

 

[Mimi2005]

id say saddle.

I've just had one made for my 4yo and after a couple of rides he wasn't happy, just a bit of snatching and head tossing and not wanting to canter-you could say its just being 4yo but nothing else had changed.back in old saddle and after a tentative 5 min was fine.

saddler has adjusted a few things and re flocked and he seemed happier but i now have a fortnight to see how it progresses and if STILL unhappy saddler will swap it for a different saddle no drama and no more ££££ as he agrees you cant argue with what the horse is saying despite on paper it looking a great fit.

if its making the horse buck its not fit for purpose and id be looking to return for full refund.

Sounds like you've got a great saddle fitter there!

 

[Mimi2005]

It's expensive to stock multiple brands, REALLY expensive. Unless you want to run a big tack store and several fitters it's often just not possible. On the second hand front there is little margin left in them, if someone only fits second hand saddles then it'll be nearly impossible to make a living - the internet has brought buyers and sellers together, the former want to buy as cheaply as possible and the latter want to sell at the highest possible price.

Bucking into canter - often the saddle running forwards into the shoulder and/or tipping back, or possibly too long. It's really common and no, the same effect isn't felt in the walk or trot. I am slightly concerned that this is news to the fitter. I am also of the belief that horses suffer nerve impingements, just as we do eg sciatica, and some of those can have these (often mild but not always) slightly "explosive" or sudden reactions.

Did the saddle fitter see you ride? Red flag and against all codes of conduct yet even lots of "qualified" saddle fitters (none of the qualifications are technically anything other than an accreditation) don't see customers ride.

I hadn't thought of it that way so thank you for putting forward from the fitters point of view. I just really wouldn't know where to start to source a saddle at random for my young horse so am heavily reliant on finding a fitter who can help me. She is newly backed and I want the process to be as comfortable for her as possible so she has a positive experience and can focus on other learning rather than discomfort from her tack. Once she's finished growing and filled out/muscled up, my plan will be to either have her a custom made saddle or invest in a quality saddle that fits her just as well.

I wonder if it was running in to her shoulder then because she was also throwing her head up in the air so really hollowing herself.

The saddle fitter watched her in walk and trot but, for the first time since being backed, we couldn't get her in to canter which in hindsight should have been a red flag but the fitter said it was fine for her not to canter. We didn't join the dots on the day because we have only ever taken her in the arena when it is quiet but on this particular day there was a show jumping class in the arena next door, a trailer with unsettled horse inside and another horse sharing the flat arena with us so there were many added distractions and she didn't seem happy but we put it down to all the other activity winding her up, rather than the saddle.

 

[sbloom]

Not wanting to canter in a new saddle isn't unheard of, so I'm much happier at what happened on the day. It's down to balance, a new saddle creates a new balance, and canter requires the best balance and strength from the horse, so it's not uncommon for a young horse especially to struggle into the canter with a new saddle. However, from then on it's clear something isn't right.

Post the saddle back and speak to some other fitters in the area about their approach, how they work with young horses, do they look at posture, balance, way of going etc. I know there's a Wow remedial fitter up your way, Olivia someone IIRC, and there could be other good ones (I'm not the most massive fan of Wow but they can work very well with the right fitter etc). This is a partnership, not just a saddle purchase.

 

[Mimi2005]

Not wanting to canter in a new saddle isn't unheard of, so I'm much happier at what happened on the day. It's down to balance, a new saddle creates a new balance, and canter requires the best balance and strength from the horse, so it's not uncommon for a young horse especially to struggle into the canter with a new saddle. However, from then on it's clear something isn't right.

Post the saddle back and speak to some other fitters in the area about their approach, how they work with young horses, do they look at posture, balance, way of going etc. I know there's a Wow remedial fitter up your way, Olivia someone IIRC, and there could be other good ones (I'm not the most massive fan of Wow but they can work very well with the right fitter etc). This is a partnership, not just a saddle purchase.

Thank you, that makes sense and something which I will bear in mind when we try saddles in future. The saddle was returned yesterday and is now back with the fitter. I struggle to find holistic fitters, especially in my area, I suppose I am probably too far from you/not at that stage just yet with what we need? I haven't heard of Olivia but I will see if I can find her contact details...the trouble I'll have is if it is a long time before they can visit that will throw a spanner in the works as I'm wanting to do a good few weeks with her now to cement the foundations then leave her be to absorb what she's learnt and continue her growth etc, then bring her back in to gentle hacking through the spring/summer.

 

[sbloom]

...the trouble I'll have is if it is a long time before they can visit that will throw a spanner in the works as I'm wanting to do a good few weeks with her now to cement the foundations then leave her be to absorb what she's learnt and continue her growth etc, then bring her back in to gentle hacking through the spring/summer.

So often the right groundwork does more than you think, and the ridden component comes back so much more quickly. I'm a stuck record but Balance Through Movement Method is brilliant.