Young horse rearing over backwards...WWYD?

doriangrey said:
You have been through a very traumatic incident OP and you need to put yourself first now. I'm sure Molly will cope if she is turned away for a few months or sent to a sensitive trainer. You've probably got a few 'what ifs' flying through your thoughts at the moment and you must give yourself time to deal with these as you heal. Agree with Terry, some horses seem naturally to evade or react to fear by rearing just as others will plant or buck or bolt. I don't think any horse plans to go over backwards but it's probably one of the worst scenarios when it does happen. Molly sounds as though she is very well looked after so concentrate on yourself now and get well :)
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absolutely echo what doriangrey says.

Whether 4yo Molly is turned away to mature more or ridden regularly onwards at this point in her life for some time first, it will make no appreciable difference. She is a horse and that's that. Either option will work so don't spend too much time worrying what's best for her. Either will work. Focus on your recovery and take it easy even when you feel well, it'll take you a couple of weeks to work the shock fully out of your system, and then however long it takes for the broken bones to knit. Get yourself 100pc. Try not to dwell on the injuries or the "what ifs" and try not to over-analyse what happened. it was one of those situations where many little things culminated into one big thing - what I call a "clusterfXXX" situation - one little goes wrong, then another, then another, then BANG. The important and good thing is that all the "what ifs" didn't happen and so you're going to be absolutely okay in time so look forwards in life and enjoy your life. Very best wishes to you. I prescribe sunshine and chocolate to aid recovery too.
 
Caol Ila said:
I also agree with Terri. I would send to another trainer for a few weeks and then turn away, as I would worry that this horse's default reaction to stress or pressure is standing up on two legs. Another horse dancing around and swinging its bum towards her won't be the scariest thing she'll ever encounter. What happens when you're on a hack and you meet llamas, out of control dogs, hot air balloons, rattling tractors, hang gliders, burnt out cars, screeching children on bicycles, etc.? Or when the horse in front of you gets spooked and whirls around into you?

Because I am a chicken about such things (and certainly would be even more so if the horse fell on top of me), I would pay someone else to fix that.

Do I get cupcakes? :D
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Everyone can have cupcakes :-)

That's the thing really...her reaction to other scary things. On hacking so far, she has never spooked, looked, but not snorted or spooked or even so much as given anything a wide berth. She has gone past pigs, a shire x galloping uo the the hedge, motorbikes passing at 60mph, other horse having a paddy, her reaction was to just walk past and lead that horse past the really scary flag, bollards, barking dog and chickens.

She hasn't gone up since a few weeks after I got her and she hasn't put a foot wrong since, I guess it will just be time to figure out if it was babiness then and last week was a one off, or if it is a default that has just come back due to extreme stress.
 
Suechoccy said:
absolutely echo what doriangrey says.

Whether 4yo Molly is turned away to mature more or ridden regularly onwards at this point in her life for some time first, it will make no appreciable difference. She is a horse and that's that. Either option will work so don't spend too much time worrying what's best for her. Either will work. Focus on your recovery and take it easy even when you feel well, it'll take you a couple of weeks to work the shock fully out of your system, and then however long it takes for the broken bones to knit. Get yourself 100pc. Try not to dwell on the injuries or the "what ifs" and try not to over-analyse what happened. it was one of those situations where many little things culminated into one big thing - what I call a "clusterfXXX" situation - one little goes wrong, then another, then another, then BANG. The important and good thing is that all the "what ifs" didn't happen and so you're going to be absolutely okay in time so look forwards in life and enjoy your life. Very best wishes to you. I prescribe sunshine and chocolate to aid recovery too.
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Thank you...wise words. I don't think the utter boredom helps either. Maybe I'll start another cookbook. :D
 
Yay Cookbook! How about a cookbook with helpful hints to keep humans amused and entertained while on boxrest. Craft projects for the barn, horses? Could be a best seller!

Terri
 
Gosh what an awful scenario :( you're right, you were very lucky it could have been much worse, and hats off to you handling the situation as times like these happen so fast, yet almost feel like they're going in slow motion!

I personally would let the dust settle. Its still fresh in your mind and sometimes we make rash decisions in the heat of things. Just take your time getting better and let her have a little breather to forget it.

I would send her to someone who deals with horses like this and knows how to "fix" them though. Not that shes broken, she sounds like she's had the best up bringing a horse could want, just to help her change the way she deals with situations she is unsure of and change the way she reacts. She doesnt sound like she does it on purpose, or to be nasty, its just the reaction she feels will work to chase the demons away!

I think the going over backwards thing was purely a terrible accident, some people say horses that aren't doing it to be naughty, once they have gone over backwards, they wont do it again. Not sure how true it is but it could have given her a bit of a scare and she might think "woah I won't be doing that again!" :o

Its entirely up to you on what you decide as only you know your horse, but for now I wish you a speedy recovery and I hope everything works out for you :)
 
First off, sending good vibes for your recovery.:)

Just something I picked up from the OP though.
It appears the problem stemmed from the behaviour of the other horses?

Being bitten so hard it draws blood is quite severe and then it was followed by the other horse seeming to turn it's back on Molly.

Just wondering if you should check how she is with the other horses in the field, where she is in the pecking order.
If she's very low down, perhaps a change around might give her some more confidence with other horses.

You can imagine her confusion if the other horses had told her in no uncertain terms to keep away and at the same time you were telling her to approach them.
 
Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
First off, sending good vibes for your recovery.:)

Just something I picked up from the OP though.
It appears the problem stemmed from the behaviour of the other horses?

Being bitten so hard it draws blood is quite severe and then it was followed by the other horse seeming to turn it's back on Molly.

Just wondering if you should check how she is with the other horses in the field, where she is in the pecking order.
If she's very low down, perhaps a change around might give her some more confidence with other horses.

You can imagine her confusion if the other horses had told her in no uncertain terms to keep away and at the same time you were telling her to approach them.
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Great post...i absolutely believe she just didn't want to go back to them. Molly is a very sociable girl. We have individual turnout but with low fences, so she has plenty of scratchy time over the fences and loves playing up and down the fence lines with Fly and her other neighbour. On the yard, she will stand with Fly or any other horse all day, just messing and playing.

But yes...I wouldn't want to go and stand by someone that had just drawn blood biting me, so no surprise she didn't, regardless of age I suppose.
 
Go back to the beginning long reining, check teeth, wolf teeth, is she getting the correct aids, not confused ones i.e. leg on to go forward, but too much contact on the mouth equals confusion. Check back.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Yay Cookbook! How about a cookbook with helpful hints to keep humans amused and entertained while on boxrest. Craft projects for the barn, horses? Could be a best seller!

Terri
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Oooh, I like it :-)


Sorry if I haven't quotes all posts...I am genuinely grateful to you all for your thoughts and help xxx
 
_GG_ said:
Great post...i absolutely believe she just didn't want to go back to them. Molly is a very sociable girl. We have individual turnout but with low fences, so she has plenty of scratchy time over the fences and loves playing up and down the fence lines with Fly and her other neighbour. On the yard, she will stand with Fly or any other horse all day, just messing and playing.

But yes...I wouldn't want to go and stand by someone that had just drawn blood biting me, so no surprise she didn't, regardless of age I suppose.
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Thanks.:)

Any chance of putting them in a field together for at least a short time? A few hours a day?
Get her used to being at liberty with other horses without a barrier.

My mare's about as low as you can get as a pony when it comes to herd dynamics. She got caught in a corner by the mare she is with and tried to jump the post and rail, got caught on the post and ending up with a foot long graze down her chest, lucky it wasn't a lot worse.

But they have settled since, she's still wary but a lot more relaxed. There's not the same panic when the other horses glowers at her.

And now she has her revenge because the mare wants to use her tail to keep the flies off and she keeps moving away.:D
 
Ironically, my ventures into training young horses started when I sent one away to be rebacked by a professional (he'd been badly started before I bought him and tended to panic-buck when first mounted, not pain, expectation of being hit). He got sent back and labelled dangerous for rearing up and going overbackwards with the trainer. To this day I still don't know what it was that happened, but I am sure he didn't do it maliciously. Like Molly, I think he probably got overwhelmed, went up, and then lost his balance. I understood the concerns, but felt the horse deserved a chance and ended up reschooling him myself. I did cure the panic-bucking and he never reared again in the whole time I had him or his subsequent home.

I suspect the advice you've been given so far is wise. Get a trusted pro to do a few weeks, then turn away for the winter and restart next year. I'd hold off thinking about whether you send her away again for that until nearer the time and see how you feel/how she is then.

Hope you recover as quickly and painlessly as possible!
 
Bearing in mind I'm not experienced in backing youngster or anything of that sort - my inclination would be to see if you have an experienced friend who can walk her out once, even just round a school so she has a good experience and then turn her away until you are ready to get on her again.

From your description she had just had a very bad experience (nosie and being bitten at the same time in a small space) and then as being asked to walk back into the same space had another horse swing round in a threatening (to her) manner - from everything you've said about her I think she got a big fright, reacted and couldn't control it.

Once you are ready to ride her again then you need to be aware this is one of her reactions to fear and maybe seek some professional advice/support in how to deal with it should she present the behaviour again but I wouldn't be inclined to send her away for schooling whilst you're laid up - if she needs something to do maybe ask a friend to lunge or long rein once or twice a week to keep her ticking over
 
I'd send her away, it'll just keep her ticking over nicely while you recover. She sounds like a nice mare who just had an accident.
As for your pelvis, go back to the hospital, ask your g.p to refer you. My friend hasnt long had a fall, hospital told her no broken bones. A week later she was back in hospital, turned out she had broken her pelvis amongst other bones
 
She may well have frightened herself into not doing it again but there is no telling. The fact that she did it several times whilst long reining and got away with it - from the reasons given - shows how fast they learn bad habits!
I do not care if Old Nick himself was waving his arms in her face a rear would have been punished hard and fast. (She would have been turned around rapidly and slapped down the sides with the lines driving her into the person arm waving) She would have realised that rearing as an aversion to whatever was not the way to go.

Flipping over can easily happen with a youngster because they do not know their limits but unless she hurt herself often it does not frighten them.

I would send her away for someone to continue with her education and tell them what happened.

Hope you heal fast!
 
Foxhunter49 said:
She may well have frightened herself into not doing it again but there is no telling. The fact that she did it several times whilst long reining and got away with it - from the reasons given - shows how fast they learn bad habits!
I do not care if Old Nick himself was waving his arms in her face a rear would have been punished hard and fast. (She would have been turned around rapidly and slapped down the sides with the lines driving her into the person arm waving) She would have realised that rearing as an aversion to whatever was not the way to go.

Flipping over can easily happen with a youngster because they do not know their limits but unless she hurt herself often it does not frighten them.

I would send her away for someone to continue with her education and tell them what happened.

Hope you heal fast!
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This^^^, if a bit anthropomorphic.:) (Sorry!).

Rearing is surely escape behaviour that needs to be dealt with instantly if it is not to become established as something that works, i.e. allows the horse to escape from the situation. A bit difficult to do with a horse on top of you, I admit, but I'm interested to work out the why's and wherefor's, if that's possible without getting flamed!

I don't think animals "realise" in that situation, do they? That would involve thinking. They react automatically as programmed by instinct, i.e. the nervous impulses go through the spinal column rather than through the brain (to put it simply) as the shortest quickest route. The trainer's response has to be as instantaneous to counter the behaviour.

But if the horse is punished, i.e. a delayed response from the trainer, isn't that going to reinforce the bad behaviour?

Does that make sense or am I rambling again?

Yes, do get well soon and look after yourself.
 
Others have advised re the horse. I'm more focused on you!

There's a number of vital nerves near L2. You really don't want any of them to be impinged :eek:, otherwise your bathroom trips will be something else :o.

Get thee back to A&E and kick up a stink. You need a back brace to make sure everything stays aligned, and regular checks with the spinal unit.

I had a compression fracture at L2. Brace for three/four months (I forget how long for sure). No riding for six months (danger of damage if I were to come off again).

Now nearly three years years on, the muscles along my spine can still go into a solid lump, which is boring and uncomfortable, occasionally to the point of tears.

Sorry to harp on OP, but if you want an active life ahead of you, better to get all sorted now.

Hope you heal well.
 
MrsMozart said:
Others have advised re the horse. I'm more focused on you!

There's a number of vital nerves near L2. You really don't want any of them to be impinged :eek:, otherwise your bathroom trips will be something else :o.

Get thee back to A&E and kick up a stink. You need a back brace to make sure everything stays aligned, and regular checks with the spinal unit.

I had a compression fracture at L2. Brace for three/four months (I forget how long for sure). No riding for six months (danger of damage if I were to come off again).

Now nearly three years years on, the muscles along my spine can still go into a solid lump, which is boring and uncomfortable, occasionally to the point of tears.

Sorry to harp on OP, but if you want an active life ahead of you, better to get all sorted now.

Hope you heal well.
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I agree with this - I had a stable compression fracture of my T7 and spent 3 days in hospital with regular neurological checks to make sure that all the bits that were meant to be working were and then 3 months in a storm trooper like corset with monthly checks and x-rays and a follow up 6 months later. It sounds like you have worse injuries than I did. Raise hell if they don't start doing something with you.

As for your horse, you know her best and I am sure you will do what is best for both of you. The one that did for me (not my horse, was schooling for someone) had a default setting that meant if when he spooked and chucked his head in the air he met resistance in his mouth he would go up and throw himself over. I wasn't quick enough that time and that is exactly what happened. While I was back riding a few months after it happened, I've not wanted to ride him again. His owner now has a very brave jockey for him and I don't think he has tried that stunt in a while.

Take care of your self.
 
I would definitely send her away to a professional while you recover.
It can only do you both good.
While it does sound like it was an accident rearing is her default reaction and may always be so better to tackle things now rather than wait encase it does become more established.
My horse rears, thankfully has never gone over and is now learning there are easier options e.g. go forward. But I do wish I would have sent him for schooling when he was younger it certainly can't hurt.
 
I used to have a horse who reared over backwards as a defence thing. Never fell, always pushed over and landed without injury everytime!

Had all the usual checks and seemed to just be one of those things. I never reacted to it and it happened less and less in the end

I did get flipped on a few times though over the years!
 
Youre out of the saddle for a few months so if shes fit for work, which im sure she is after you saying in your other post shes given a clean bill of health from your vet after the accident, if youre able to, id give her a few weeks off and then send her off or get in a sympathetic rider/trainer to get her going again.
I do hope its been a one off reaction to something because i dont buy into if theyve flipped theyre less likely to do it again, ibe seen horses flip again on more than one occassion, my young horse years ago flipped and sadly his behaviour as a rising 5yo was related to osteochondritis dissecans and was probably pain related, even after treatment he still reared as his m.o to evade if he became stressed or was reluctant to work, although he did get past it.
From your description of your horse her temperament sounds good and it might well be a one off but only time will tell.
 
I think it was an accident and scared herself as much as you. I had a rearer that used to go over very skilled at it sadley he broke my back. I agree send her away get her going nicely. I did this didn't work out for my horse and he was PTS. But he was bad he did it tied up walking to the field he spent more time on two legs than he did four sad as he was a really nice horse. good luck hope you feel better soon
 
Thanks everyone. Have been busy getting myself sorted...I am doing great. Further x rays reveal damage to T12, L1 & L2 but nothing unstable and no discernible cracks or fractures. Not to say they are not there, but everything is working as it should so they are happy. I must have a high pain threshold as what they thought were two fractures in my foot are actually two old but quite severe breaks. Never treated as I didn't know I had suffered them and cannot remember any time that I might have done it. Doc quite surprised by that, but my paramedic report said that he arrived on scene to, "patient calm and chatty, no sign of distress and occasional wincing, no tears, pain reported at 5/10".

They couldn't believe i didn't cry, lol. I genuinely don't remember it hurting though. I remember thinking, "ooof" when my back hit the tarmac and, "insert brace for squishing and then big squishing sound here" when Molly landed. She got up and I knew the bits that were hurt, but they didn't hurt. No adrenaline shakes...I am the joke of the road at the moment because I was being my usual lid back, making jokes and being inappropriate self :eek:

Pelvis is very stable, so not to ride for 8-10 weeks just to allow it to knit properly, I can drive as soon as I can stamp on the breaks. Advised to move as much as I can to keep my muscles supple and it was music to my ears as so many people saying I am doing too much. Maybe it's us horsey people, but consultant said, to you, strenuous activity might be hefting hay bales or carrying water buckets, to most, it is lifting a kettle. He said us horsey girls are born with the inability to sit still, lol.

He began my report with the line, "Horses have a lot to answer for" :D

Molly is resting until vet gives final all clear, then next week I can long rein her a couple of times a week. Doctor supports this as she is not strong or pully. Even when she went up a little at the gate, she was already only a few metres from it and it was very early on, so I wasn't forcing her to a line.

In response to one of the posts, that was the only time she went up when long reining. Other couple of times in the school were loose schooling. Only other times were having her one wolf tooth removed and two caps removed when she had her first EDT visit and rasp. She went up three times but Curtis carried on and she soon gave up...and hadn't gone up since then until last week. That EDT visit was early March.

I'm actually not really worried about her doing it again. I know her signs, so I will know not to push her through if I see them again, but rather, take a step back and let her absorb things a bit.

I can almost walk normally now too :-)
 
Just an update.

Had MRI on Friday as consultant called to say pelvic break was left side, not right, but pain was right side.

A few hours later I was told that pelvic break was very old, probably done as a kid or even born like it. No breaks or fractures at all...just very severe bruising to pelvis and spine.

Also, radiologist looked at all x rays again and foot fractures are also very old breaks.

So there you go. Nothing broken!
 
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