Young horse - taking things too slowly?

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soloequestrian

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I need either reassurance or a kick up the bum! My KWPN was four in June. She lunges, long-reins, goes out for occasional walks, loads and is happy in all her tack. I was planning to back her fully this month because my husband was on holiday so there was plenty of time with both of us here, but various things ate into that time – bad weather, illness, visitors, DIY and so I’m not as far on as I hoped to be. I haven’t done that many walks out recently because of forestry work just beside us closing off our tracks and I also haven’t managed to get her out in the trailer. At the moment I’m working on building up the amount of weight she is happy to carry.
I keep seeing adverts and Facebook posts about horses her age out winning competitions and we are nowhere near that. I’m still hoping to get her backed and out for some short hacks and perhaps in hand to a local show before the winter, but I’m also trying not to get obsessed with these goals. Do people think it does any harm to wait too long to do things, for instance if I didn’t achieve these things until next spring will she be missing out on critical timings for her education or have you found that it doesn’t really matter what age they do stuff as long as they’re not scared?
 
I don't think there is such a thing as too slow. Just do what feels right for both of you and ignore (poisonous) Facebook.
 
The only ones who matter are you and your horse! Work at your own pace, round the things that you need to work round. Your horse will still be going strong and sound, long after many of those who were out competing at a young age have broken and had to retire.
Your horse is a big girl, she won't be mature for another 4 yrs or so and you have no deadline.
 
I backed my warmblood when she was almost five and have just started competing her lightly this year under saddle at six. She is much stronger physically and mentally now and is progressing well and confidently. I've had other youngsters that were ready earlier but I bought this one as my forever horse (even bringing her back from Australia to the UK last year!) Unless you are aiming at the age classes or turning one around as a project then where's the rush? It sounds to me like you're pacing it nicely.
 
Entirely up to you, the horse doesn't care, but the longer you take the longer you'll have to wait to achieve fitness, balance and consistency and progression in the training.
 
Cortez said:
Entirely up to you, the horse doesn't care, but the longer you take the longer you'll have to wait to achieve fitness, balance and consistency and progression in the training.
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This where I am it takes time to train a horse so if you back it at five it's eighteen months behind those backed half way through their three yo year .
There's no quick way for a horse to gain muscle bulk and balance so if you start late you stay late .
If that does not matter to you do as you choose .
My new horse is very behind he arrived in England at six knowing what the tack was and not much else he eight now and much further behind on the flat the last five yo I bought myself .
It doesn't matter as long as you keep it clear in you're head where you're at .
I do think older horses are more difficult to get through backing if they are not straight forward .
 
soloequestrian said:
I need either reassurance or a kick up the bum! My KWPN was four in June. She lunges, long-reins, goes out for occasional walks, loads and is happy in all her tack. I was planning to back her fully this month because my husband was on holiday so there was plenty of time with both of us here, but various things ate into that time – bad weather, illness, visitors, DIY and so I’m not as far on as I hoped to be. I haven’t done that many walks out recently because of forestry work just beside us closing off our tracks and I also haven’t managed to get her out in the trailer. At the moment I’m working on building up the amount of weight she is happy to carry.
I keep seeing adverts and Facebook posts about horses her age out winning competitions and we are nowhere near that. I’m still hoping to get her backed and out for some short hacks and perhaps in hand to a local show before the winter, but I’m also trying not to get obsessed with these goals. Do people think it does any harm to wait too long to do things, for instance if I didn’t achieve these things until next spring will she be missing out on critical timings for her education or have you found that it doesn’t really matter what age they do stuff as long as they’re not scared?
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So what!!!

You carry on your plan and speed, if they want to be out there competing young horses and IMO doing to much to soon and ruining horses let them. You will be the one who ends up with a well educated clean legged horsey friend. Stuff them.

I know others wont agree but let me tell you a true story


Girl we will call her W had a lovely coloured gelding who jumped like a stag going over 5ft jumps at 4-5 years old in competitions. Hard competing she was, I then did not see her again for 2 years due to circumstances and work. Next thing was at a local show I saw someone there competing and asked how *A* was she said in quote * she cannot compete him anymore his hocks are ********d. Don't know what happened after that.


You take your time - all things come to those who wait.
 
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absolutely, all things come to those who wait.

only those who can wait will taste the heights of equestrian art, quote oliveira.

it does`nt mean sitting there doing nowt, obviously you are working away to arrive, however i also think if you have a good horse that offers a lot, don`t be greedy too soon.
 
Thanks everyone. I get on a bit of a downer regularly - doubt myself, worry I'm not being brave enough etc. We had a lovely walk out this morning - investigated big straw bales, watched a tractor go past at close range, all nice and calm. I will try to hold on to the positive thoughts!
 
I've done pretty much everything apart from sit on my 5yr old. She lives on the side of a hill, grew upwards like a weed when younger and is only now starting to look less gangly. We'll be doing more longreining for education and I'll sit on her when I've lost enough weight.
I bought her to keep at 6 months, so we're going at the pace we both feel comfortable :D
 
Goldenstar said:
Oh you can certainly go to slow just as people struggle to learn physical things as they age it gets harder for horses as well .
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Completely agree.
And I suppose it depends on both the horse and to what you want the outcome to be as to how slow is good/bad.
For a sportshorse aimed at mid-upper level competition, for me not being under saddle by the end of the 5yo summer is too slow. That does not mean I think the horse has to be razzing around competition, but I would want the basic training and fitness under saddle being developed at home as Cortez/GS elude to.
 
There is some evidence bone development and soundness are helped by some stress and work as growing up, as encourages strength etc. So good for young horses to have some challenge as they grow to adult hood. A totally unchallenged horse wont develop to work as well as one that has realistic challenges as reaches full adult hood.
 
Ideally my plan is to manage some light ridden hacking by the end of this year and then progress that next year, or at worst riding by Easter of next year so I suppose that still falls into the time bracket suggested. I remember a presentation years ago on evaluation of soundness in event horses and there was a suggestion/evidence that those who had raced were more likely to be sound later in their career which matches the post above. It would be interesting to see how general management affects these outcomes - mine is out 24/7 and has a mad gallop at least once each day (through choice, I don't make her!) which obviously won't be as challenging as galloping with a rider on but presumably is much better for development that spending time standing inside.
 
Meh I took things super slow with my mare as she was super gangly and took a while to grow into herself.

She's an eventer with buckets of talent. I didn't sit on her until the August of her 4th year. She did a handful of shows as a 5 year old, 2 events as a 6 year old then started BE when she was 7.

This year as an 8 year old was a bit of a wash out because we had a nasty fall xc at the start of the year which wrecked my confidence but beyond that she's been an absolute doddle. She's very sharp so I think there was a lot of potential for things to go wrong with her but beyond where I messed up when I got nervous this year, she's never said no, she's never tried to put me on the floor, she's very consistent and always tries really hard. I totally put that down to the fact I produced her so carefully and slowly.

If I hadn't had the confidence knock she was looking to go BE novice last May as an 8 year old which I don't think was bad going for her age and as she was low mileage as a youngster I hope she'll still be standing up to full work as an older horse.
 
wingedhorse said:
There is some evidence bone development and soundness are helped by some stress and work as growing up, as encourages strength etc. So good for young horses to have some challenge as they grow to adult hood. A totally unchallenged horse wont develop to work as well as one that has realistic challenges as reaches full adult hood.
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There is also plenty of evidence that too much too young causes joint issues in later life as well. Unfortunately many people who back horses st three and have them out competing as five year old rarely still have that hhorse into its late teens to have to deal with the fall out of too much too young.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
There is also plenty of evidence that too much too young causes joint issues in later life as well. Unfortunately many people who back horses st three and have them out competing as five year old rarely still have that hhorse into its late teens to have to deal with the fall out of too much too young.
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I think it's a happy medium. Not keen on young horse classes, and the stats on the longevity of horses succeeding in these, and being around competing in their mid teens are poor. BUT there seems evidence doing something in the 3-4 years is beneficial to the way horses grow and develop. Though clearly doing too much too hard is bad.
 
What we have lost with starting horse is a sense of proportion a horse can be in work at three without being overworked four year olds can be in work seeing the world without being hot housed in young horse classes .
And a horse does not need to get to seven without being able to canter a circle to avoid being overworked.
 
our stallion started work at 10 years and he has turned into something way beyond what i ever dreamed possible, with the right management, feeding and work regime he is just fine

and no it did not worry me because years ago i broke horses as old as eight, a horse to me is a horse and i treat them all the same, if fact i prefer older horses, and have found training and riding well is the key whatever the age.

a mare i knew in france was a brood mare then broken at 9 went international in show jumping at 13years

but agree about having a sense of proportion in relation to workload in younger horses
 
Goldenstar said:
What we have lost with starting horse is a sense of proportion a horse can be in work at three without being overworked four year olds can be in work seeing the world without being hot housed in young horse classes .
And a horse does not need to get to seven without being able to canter a circle to avoid being overworked.
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agree wholeheartedly.

My now-12 year old was re-backed at 9 and I was basically starting from scratch, I felt it was quite difficult to condition her appropriately for her work at the start of the process and she was also rather challenging mentally as she had her own ideas about the world.

She's rocketed along since, but I feel like I'm playing catch up a bit with her brain, still - her body is well up to the job now but she's missed out on the "socialisation" element that ought to have been happening years ago.
 
Goldenstar said:
What we have lost with starting horse is a sense of proportion a horse can be in work at three without being overworked four year olds can be in work seeing the world without being hot housed in young horse classes .
And a horse does not need to get to seven without being able to canter a circle to avoid being overworked.
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Agree absolutely.
The other thing that I think is missing from analysis of competition horses and long term soundness is how much proper slow steady fitness training they've had. I think an awful lot of youngsters miss out on that these days - they get backed and then they start to get aimed at doing something, rather than having 9 months of fitness build up before even thinking about developing them for any type of competition. I think that this often one of the reasons having horses barefoot seems to make them go from strength to strength physically. People put it down to the lack of shoes but I believe a lot of it is simply due to the barefoot rehab programme being remarkably similar to a standard fitness progression programme - when the horse comes out the other end it is suddenly conditioned properly physically
 
Goldenstar said:
Oh you can certainly go to slow just as people struggle to learn physical things as they age it gets harder for horses as well .
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Yes, but a lot of horses, especially warmbloods, take much longer to mature mentally and physically. These are very liable to break if brought on too early and asked too much. I would much rather take a late 4, early 5 yr old, and crack on with it, knowing that it has grown into its frame, and will therefore cope better with the demands asked of it. I would rather have a sound horse going into it's teens. This is what I aim to breed.
 
cundlegreen said:
Yes, but a lot of horses, especially warmbloods, take much longer to mature mentally and physically. These are very liable to break if brought on too early and asked too much. I would much rather take a late 4, early 5 yr old, and crack on with it, knowing that it has grown into its frame, and will therefore cope better with the demands asked of it. I would rather have a sound horse going into it's teens. This is what I aim to breed.
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Why would you break in a 5yo and then 'crack on with it'. It still needs conditioning.
That's kind of the point isn't is. The longer you spend getting the basics right the better. So if you start at 5, then you have something ready to crack on with at 7 in my mind. Personally I'd rather start at 4 with a view to the horse being ready for sport at 6. Maybe I think too commercially, which could be a fault.
 
ihatework said:
Why would you break in a 5yo and then 'crack on with it'. It still needs conditioning.
That's kind of the point isn't is. The longer you spend getting the basics right the better. So if you start at 5, then you have something ready to crack on with at 7 in my mind. Personally I'd rather start at 4 with a view to the horse being ready for sport at 6. Maybe I think too commercially, which could be a fault.
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I would also rather start earlier and not "crack on" having the opportunity to give them breaks then pick up a few times in the first year or two is useful, a week or two off can be so good for a young horse for many reasons, I like to give them a good foundation maybe get out a few times then back off and build up.
If I were producing an amateur horse it can be invaluable if they don't have to be ridden every day and will come back in after a few weeks off without any drama, even if you are producing a potentially top grade horse having it started at 4 and carefully produced should do no harm and may mean you have not wasted a year on something that is obviously never going to have the right attitude or lacks the talent that you really cannot assess until it is under saddle, it can then be diverted to a more suitable job.

Even people with just the one horse may find it is not the one for them however much they want it to be, there is a big difference between working them too hard and doing nothing at all, some horses will not remain sound however carefully they are started.
I had one years ago backed at late 4 did very little I bought him as a 5 year old from the field and brought him on very very slowly as he was always a bit tricky, by 8 he was not right he never did a real days work and retired a couple of years later as we could not find the issue, although he was sound in very light work he went unlevel once he was fit enough to compete, the other horse bought at the same time had SJ to Fox by the time he was coming 5, he evented for several seasons, continued to competed in WH/ Dressage/ SJ until mid/ late teens and never had a days lameness in all the years he worked, to look at them the first was a blood horse with super confo and bred to event so should have stayed sound, the second an ISH with not the best confo but far tougher in every way.
 
That's another good point BP.
I/we have just sold an event horse as a 6yo. We bought him in the spring of his 4yo year just backed. He was very quietly produced behind the scenes with the hope he might be a long term horse, but as he developed it was clear he didn't have the scope for top level. So he was then produced for the amateur market, meaning we ran him in the second half of his 5yo year putting a very good record on him and sold him this year as a 6yo for the badminton grassrootes. He will do that job all day long with a blindfold on.
 
Cortez said:
Entirely up to you, the horse doesn't care, but the longer you take the longer you'll have to wait to achieve fitness, balance and consistency and progression in the training.
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Agreed - I would want basic work established (accepting hand, moving off leg, lateral softness in WTC) by 4yo in all honesty.

Which doesn't mean international age class ready to me.

My youngster turned 3yo in April and he's a modern type, very leggy and gangly. He was (I'm still surprised) very easy to back and is straight forward to ride. It would be tempting to push him round in a demi-medium trot and really pump up the canter.

Instead, we are happily doing wonky potatoes in WTC in a green outline and have started WT solo hacks :) I'm not aiming for the 4yo classes next year as I don't think he'll be confident enough. By this time next year I'd like him to be happy doing arena hires and lessons (for the experience rather than training) with the aim of a prelim/novice under our belt for the same reasons. This way he will be nicely muscled and strong enough for his 5yo year and ready to really start competing.
 
my youngster did inhand walking and earing tack as a 3 yr old, now 4 she is working confidently in walk, trot and just started canter...she started under saddle in may.
to me you start an unfit horse with 6 weeks walking so I do young horses the same, build up gradually.
she hacks on her own, shes going out for little quiet trips. still no 'outline' as such but she is offering moments and going forward into both reins so im ok with this.
 
It is perfectly possible to occupy the mind without breaking the body of a young horse. We have a tall gangly just turned 4 year old. He enjoys being messed with but is weak. He was broken in May and he is now doing 4 bits of work a week of less than 20 minutes learning transitions, learning to be responsive, learning to wait etc. Other days he will be loaded/unloaded, maybe shown the clippers or go and watch the traffic. He is ready to do a walk and trot test and we will find him a very quiet outing nearby in the autumn. I expect he will sleep for a week afterwards.

You can teach them loads without racing and rallying them. Consistent, incremental teaching will set them up for life, and I think the best bit of advice with young horses is to always end with them thinking they have had fun and always with a little left in the tank, never exhaust them because when they start to ache they will get stroppy.
 
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