Youngster learns BIG CANTER and pops a few jumps *pics*

starbar said:
I've had a look at these pics again. Criticism around the rider aside, I think the first jumping pic is the one that makes me feel particularly uncomfortable. If this is the mare's first time over a jump, she is jumping a wonky pole the same colour as the surface, with no ground line, into water which will be reflecting the pole back at her as well. I can see the reflection in the photo. No wonder she doesn't look happy :(
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This is what struck me as well! Even my non horsey mother commented on it.
 
Christmas_Crackers said:
She's shire x - big gal

Ears and tail in canter - it was the first time she had cantered so not too fussed about that.

As for the rushing - she's not been rushed as such, she'll be 4 on the 1st of Jan (she's called drift because she was born in the snow :)). She was backed at the beginning of Spring, turned away for the summer and autumn and brought back into work 8 weeks ago - she's had her time off :)

Also - she's not mine, she belongs to my friend who breaks professionally. She's going out doing a few thing in spring and then will be sold :(
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Jesus christ, not even four and jumping? Is this for real?
 
Chloe..x said:
Jesus christ, not even four and jumping? Is this for real?
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Are you telling me you don't think showjumpers and eventers jump their three year olds ever?

I'm not getting involved in a cc session as I couldn't do any better myself. Very nice, sweet and genuine looking horse though :)
 
Agree with most of the above, that horse is too young to be doing so much, she looks very uncomfortable, feel quite sorry for her as clearly they think because she's big she can cope, hopefully she'll be sold one to someone who has more patience and will wait for her to mature before pushing her.
 
I wont comment on the age/work of the horse as such as its all been done...

BUT.

Why jump a young green horse over those crates. If she (God forbid) put in a stop at such a spooky non inviting jump and puts her foot through one, you will have a real mess. Shes a big girl and would make toast of those plastic things. If you must insist on jumping your baby, PLEASE for her sake make the jump as safe as you can. If you dont have safe jumps, wait till you have.

I dont mean to be rude, but I always think safety first. It would be so easy for her to make an innocent mistake. :(
 
I wasn't going to comment but I'm not sure if I agree with the 'forced outline' comments. To me the rider looks unbalanced, she is clinging with her heels and leaning forwards and looks to be leaning on the reins in an attempt to help herself balance, also, I know it's the horse's first canter but she neither sits in the saddle or take up the two point seat so this makes me think she can't sit into the canter. And I know it's the first time the horse has been jumped but her leg position whilst jumping isn't the best and again she's clinging with her hands making you think she's unbalanced. Again, I disagree with the positioning of the jump with the water.
I don't mean to be rude but just my opinion...
Lovely, honest horse though
 
She is a lovey looking big mare! Im in no place to comment as I have never broken a youngster, however the same issues seem to be popping up. I do however agree with the safety issue with the crates & jumping set up- looks a little dangerous to me. Maybe some guidance from a reputable instructor would point you in the right direction with her?

best wishes

elsazzo
 
redcascade said:
I wasn't going to comment but I'm not sure if I agree with the 'forced outline' comments.
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i agree with you, what i meant by the 'forced outline' is that the original op made a comment about the horse coming round. and i took that to mean that the op thought the rider had gotten the horse into some kind of outline or rounding. when in fact all thats happening is the rider is balancing themselves through the rein and pulling the horses head back.
 
redcascade said:
I wasn't going to comment but I'm not sure if I agree with the 'forced outline' comments. To me the rider looks unbalanced, she is clinging with her heels and leaning forwards and looks to be leaning on the reins in an attempt to help herself balance, also, I know it's the horse's first canter but she neither sits in the saddle or take up the two point seat so this makes me think she can't sit into the canter. And I know it's the first time the horse has been jumped but her leg position whilst jumping isn't the best and again she's clinging with her hands making you think she's unbalanced. Again, I disagree with the positioning of the jump with the water.
I don't mean to be rude but just my opinion...
Lovely, honest horse though
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Baaa baaaa :)
 
I've always been told your elbows should be at near right angles when riding (is that right) it allows the horse to carry themselves and gain a more natural outline.
I think it's good that your instructor is doing a little bit of everything, but that jump is horrible, i know its been said already but there is no excuse for that type of jump or the landing.
But again really nice horse, big horses can easily be little devils as this age
 
piggyinablanket said:
Why jump a young green horse over those crates. If she (God forbid) put in a stop at such a spooky non inviting jump and puts her foot through one, you will have a real mess. Shes a big girl and would make toast of those plastic things. If you must insist on jumping your baby, PLEASE for her sake make the jump as safe as you can. If you dont have safe jumps, wait till you have.

I dont mean to be rude, but I always think safety first. It would be so easy for her to make an innocent mistake. :(
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This. 100%. It was the main thing that I really noticed from those photos. Accident waiting to happen.

I'm very much one for not rushing young horses and to ask for a first canter AND jump in one session does seem like a lot and she is overfacing what is quite a nice young horse.

This is not something I'd normally say but I really wouldn't want someone like that teaching me anything.
 
I think some people have jumped too quickly at OP for this thread, so to speak. IMHO there is no harm AT ALL in asking / getting a 'baby' canter - outline or not, and likewise no harm is asking said baby to pop over a few fences. Its not like this is going to be repeated daily it seems and the mare, although very green looks capable of doing so. Lets face it, most Irish horses are hunted at 3, many race horses have seen the track by 3, so whats the big shoot down? The obviously care about this mare, she looks very well.
Yes, the pictures of the rider riding aren't correct, and yep OP says its her experienced instructor. I am an instructor, and Iam sure there are a few photos of my elbows that look like that - Iam just not brave enough to post them! OP didn't want comments about the rider, and as for saying 'change your instructor', well isn't that a bit harsh? What if she read this, you would make her feel awful. No one is perfect.
The only issue I have about it has been said before. The jump isn't very inviting, isn't very safe and for that the 'experience' of the rider lacks somewhat.
ETS - after looking again at the photos, I did actually cringe at some of the photos of the riding - on the flat. Hope there are no photos of me looking like that! Sorry, kinda goes against what I have said doesn't it?!! Whooppss. No body is perfect!
 
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I intend to agree with gone crackers, I have got 2 youngsters that have been backed already but now turned away for the winter.

I'd say a more inviting fence would have been beneficial with a ground pole but hey, she's gone over it fair pay to the horse she is obviously amazingly honest and a credit to you.

Its not as if she is only 15hh and only just gone 3, you have obviously done the ground work over the 8 weeks and before hand to get her to this stage, I sympathis with you, I was shot down the other day for bringing my younsters on too early its your horse I bet your proud as punch with her, shame that she is going to be sold.

Can I ask a question, is it ok to jump young horses when they go to Futurity (without rider) or is that deemed as unnacceptable??
 
What a gorgeous mare, I personally would want my youngster to carry herself before I started carrying her, and also her expression in that first jumping pic is one of worry and concern - not the way to build up courage and boldness. IMO.
 
Christmas_Crackers said:
That's a hard one - the actually needs balancing as she is so big and unbalanced at the mo. As soon as you drop the contact on her she loses all rhythm - as long as you keep a firm contact she gains confidence from you. We start long and low with her, then bring her up and then finish long and low. Hopefully this way she will develop all the right muscles in the right places :) And she's not had any gadgets on her :)

Edit - she is only 3 - she's not capable of maintaining anything like an outline yet - false or otherwise...
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Lovely looking mare, very willing and honest.

BUT, as a very big baby I'd be concentrating on the very basics and not worrying about an 'outline'. You've kind of shot yourself in the foot though "she's not capable of maintaining anything yet, false or otherwise", so why force the issue? If you recognise that she's not ready for working in an outline, I don't understand why you insist on being so set with such a strong contact?
 
All Gone Crackers said:
I think some people have jumped too quickly at OP for this thread, so to speak. IMHO there is no harm AT ALL in asking / getting a 'baby' canter - outline or not, and likewise no harm is asking said baby to pop over a few fences. Its not like this is going to be repeated daily it seems and the mare, although very green looks capable of doing so. Lets face it, most Irish horses are hunted at 3, many race horses have seen the track by 3, so whats the big shoot down? The obviously care about this mare, she looks very well.
Yes, the pictures of the rider riding aren't correct, and yep OP says its her experienced instructor. I am an instructor, and Iam sure there are a few photos of my elbows that look like that - Iam just not brave enough to post them! OP didn't want comments about the rider, and as for saying 'change your instructor', well isn't that a bit harsh? What if she read this, you would make her feel awful. No one is perfect.
The only issue I have about it has been said before. The jump isn't very inviting, isn't very safe and for that the 'experience' of the rider lacks somewhat.
ETS - after looking again at the photos, I did actually cringe at some of the photos of the riding - on the flat. Hope there are no photos of me looking like that! Sorry, kinda goes against what I have said doesn't it?!! Whooppss. No body is perfect!
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I understand what you're saying, and there is no such thing as the perfect rider, BUT I still think that you need to establish the desire for the horse to take the rider forwards willingly and with a 'smile' on their faces before trying to force an outline. It seems that everyone these days is obsessed with having their horse on the bit without encouraging self carriage and engagement forst.
 
Beautiful horse.

My youngster is a similar type and build, but she is 4 & 1/2 and still nowhere near mature enough to have the balance required to work in a consistent outline or to collect herself. I dont school her too much as such as I only have hacking available, but when I do ride her I try to build up her strength and balance a little bit at a time as I think you can over do things with a youngster. I was always taught that the horse has to learn to balance itself and you should not keep a tight contact, especially with a baby. But im not expert!! I have been having my mare on a loose rein and allowing her to take up the contact herself, which she is doing nicely now in canter, which is our weakest pace! For a big horse it is so much more difficult for them to balance themselves I think.

I popped my girl over a few jumps earlier this year and she loved it. Its always good fun to have them do something new and really enjoy it :D

Here's pics of my mares first time jumping, we have rubbish jumps too, oops..

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I dont want to sound harsh but here is my opinion.

The rider looks unbalanced making the horse unbalanced, leg and hand position, not good and looking down!

No one is perfect, but an instructor should look a little better than that, even at their worst!

You said she brakes professionally?
I would not send a horse of mine to someone that rides like that, has facilities (or lack of) like that and is doing what she is doing with that horse in terms of rushing it and not letting it mature.

Honest horse that i hope doesnt get spooked and put off.
 
Particularly in the last 2 but in each of those jumping shots, the rider is not giving an inch with her hands. If anything, she is snatching to provide balance for her poor position. Not fair on a clearly very willing horse. At this stage a small cross pole with placing and ground poles would suffice not needing to get right up her neck and out the side door should she decide not to be so genuine.
 
I think it's a bit unfair to say horses in general at the age of 3 - 4 (towards the end of being a 3 yr old) arn't ready to be doing cantering and popping fences... just look at the young event horse classes for 4 yr olds however these are ridden and trained by professionals which sorry but from what I can see she doesn't look. Sorry just my oppinion.
 
All Gone Crackers said:
I think some people have jumped too quickly at OP for this thread, so to speak. IMHO there is no harm AT ALL in asking / getting a 'baby' canter - outline or not, and likewise no harm is asking said baby to pop over a few fences. Its not like this is going to be repeated daily it seems and the mare, although very green looks capable of doing so. Lets face it, most Irish horses are hunted at 3, many race horses have seen the track by 3, so whats the big shoot down? The obviously care about this mare, she looks very well.
Yes, the pictures of the rider riding aren't correct, and yep OP says its her experienced instructor. I am an instructor, and Iam sure there are a few photos of my elbows that look like that - Iam just not brave enough to post them! OP didn't want comments about the rider, and as for saying 'change your instructor', well isn't that a bit harsh? What if she read this, you would make her feel awful. No one is perfect.
The only issue I have about it has been said before. The jump isn't very inviting, isn't very safe and for that the 'experience' of the rider lacks somewhat.
ETS - after looking again at the photos, I did actually cringe at some of the photos of the riding - on the flat. Hope there are no photos of me looking like that! Sorry, kinda goes against what I have said doesn't it?!! Whooppss. No body is perfect!
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Have to say that I too agree with most of this!

There is nothing wrong with popping a three and a half year old (or 3yr old) over a diddy liitle cross pole! Its hardly over stressing her! Nor is cantering in the school! If you were doing it every day, or nothing else (as quite a few on here seem to do - school school school) then there is. Yes there are a few issues with her position - most of us would be ripped to bits by the HHO MontyPythonesque witches ("Stone her, stone her!) if we posted our riding on here. My main issue is the lack of give whilst mid air- I agree with keeping a contact on the approach...

As for immediately changing your instructor - well of course you absolutely must, and take the advice of complete strangers on here, many of whom may actually be sixteen at least! Sorry if that sounds trollist - but I find the hysteria on here when someone posts something of them riding most amusing!

OP the horse looks like she will be lovely, and I'd continue doing most of your schooling out on hacks, which it seems like you've been doing. Especially if your school gets so waterlogged! Next time position the fence out of the puddle if you have to have the puddle!
 
Honey08 said:
Have to say that I too agree with most of this!

There is nothing wrong with popping a three and a half year old (or 3yr old) over a diddy liitle cross pole! Its hardly over stressing her! Nor is cantering in the school! If you were doing it every day, or nothing else (as quite a few on here seem to do - school school school) then there is. Yes there are a few issues with her position - most of us would be ripped to bits by the HHO MontyPythonesque witches ("Stone her, stone her!) if we posted our riding on here. My main issue is the lack of give whilst mid air- I agree with keeping a contact on the approach...

As for immediately changing your instructor - well of course you absolutely must, and take the advice of complete strangers on here, many of whom may actually be sixteen at least! Sorry if that sounds trollist - but I find the hysteria on here when someone posts something of them riding most amusing!

OP the horse looks like she will be lovely, and I'd continue doing most of your schooling out on hacks, which it seems like you've been doing. Especially if your school gets so waterlogged! Next time position the fence out of the puddle if you have to have the puddle!
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Sooooooooooooo agree with this^ in fact I reckon most of the posters on here are probably not even 13!!!!
 
Lovely horse! I too do not agree with the comments that the horse is being 'forced into an outline' dropping behind the vertical maybe?!
I do agree that it prob wasn't the best equipment/situation to be introducing the mare to jumping and the rider isn't helping the mare too much however, if people think that horses that are produced for young horse classes whether for dressage or showjumping are not being worked in an outline or jumping then you might want to think again.
 
Beautiful horse to start with.

one point - i dont think your instructor is a good rider but that does not mean she is not a good teacher. many dressage jusges dont ride themselves and would be useless if they tried. but i will be honest and say if that lady got on any of my horses and rode like that, id be telling her to get off pronto.

a youngster should be allowed to go forward without how rigid that ladies hands are. you should always sit back and 'drive' the horse. not lean forward and chase.

as for the jumping - has the mare done any loose jumping? this would have allowed her to teach herself how to jump, and how to bascule and teach her self to stride, without the limitations of a (bad) riders hands.

she looks like she will make a fab horse - but please let her be brought on at a steady pace with sympathetic, knowledgable riders.
 
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