Youngster planting feet... Won't budge.

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CBFan

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ok... he will eventually but leading to the field each morning is taking two or three times as long as it should because of it! before anyone asks, he does like his field and is often seen playing with the others etc so I don't think he's unhappy... I just think he's a clever B**ger, who knows how to annoy mummy.

He's a 3 year old cleveland bay standing at about 17hh.

He is led in a Dually headcollar (because he can be silly and strong at times and I can't hold him without it and I'm not risking a broken arm again) and basically every morning particularly (but not exclusively) he will lead out for a few yards absolutely fine and then he plants his feet and refuses to move. I have been simply putting the pressure on the nose, which obviously releases when he moves forward (and I'm VERY carefull that this always happens) but it still takes several seconds (30 ish I'd say) until he responds! while I am very patient with him over this, and am happy to stand in the middle of the yard doing this, I am also concious of the fact that he is becoming aware of my strength V's his which I don't really want to progress and above all I'd just like him to lead normally!

I have tried using a schooling whip to encourage him to move but it really doesn't work when he has a rug on so I was thinking of having a session with him this week to get him listening to me and continuing this going forward as and when necessary... Thoughts? Tips? advice?

Anyone elses youngsters test them like this?
 
No advice, but I had a CB youngster who went through exactly the same phase. Same height and age too. He would walk out fine, coming in was the problem for us. And it was even worse if the driveway was drying out - you know when it's rained, and it's drying, and there's patches which are darker? Well apparently the darker patches were horse eating monsters and couldn't be walked near. I have to confess I did once abandon him in the middle of the drive, finished off my other 2 and went back for him. He was still standing there :rolleyes:

As I said, no help at all, just wanted you to know you aren't alone! He did eventually grow out of it, but I sold him shortly after as he refused to stop growing and I'm only 5'2.
 
Just play him at his own game.

When he plants, turn him away from you and walk in the other direction, and then just spiral down the yard.
 
Would it work by almost asking him to walk in a zig zag fashion initially. so almost pushing him off balance a little bit when he does plant himself.

What happens if you back him up with a stride will he move forwards then?

Mine have only planted as foals/yearlings, by 2/3 they are more than happy to walk/trot/even canter/rear/gallop to the field in the mornings. little devils!!! But never had a CB to date.

Hope you find a solution for him.
 
Haha! I can move him sideways to get him off balance but often he will just plant himself in his new spot, so we repeat. This morning he moved forwards a couple of steps then planted... it's just stupid!

Rana, I am so glad I'm not alone!!! He's starting to make me feel REALLY stupid! and I often think I could just abandon him but I don't think he'd stay put! there are much more interesting things to do you see.. like going to annoy other horses over their stable doors... helping other owners with their mucking out... he's such a nosey bugger it wouldn't be long before he was getting up to mischief!

Nelson, backing up doesn't seem to work, but I could try it again... the thing thats so annoying is that this is a completely new trick that he originally developed in protest to being turned out over night at the start of winter... he's now in overnight and I'd hoped that it would stop... it hasn't...
 
Roxy 16.3 CB went through the exact same last year, would go so far then say "not a hope in hell" no amount of gentle, firm "shift your butt" tugs worked
We used a schooling whip...didnt work...then either me or OH would just walk behind and clap...it worked and she soon grew out of it... is now an angel to lead, unless it dark and windy in which case i get dragged one way whilst the PBA drags me the other :D:rolleyes:
CB`s eh stubborn as hell :)
 
He's a CB, I'd expect nothing less, lol!
Friend had this problem once; she solved it by tying said planted horse to a breeze block and left him there. He was happy to move once she came back for him. The tying up times got fewer within the week and then he would march past the breeze block without looking at it; it cured him so I'm a big advocate of playing him at his own game and make him wait until you're good and ready to move yourself.
 
My CB filly 18 months was doing the same last week.

However, if she were human she would def be a member of MENSA. They had been on the fields since September and she knew that there was better grass on the other side of the yard.

I have moved them all to better grazing and she is no trouble at all.

So you see, CB's are not stubborn just smarter than their owners. You need to indulge him.

(will someone tell me how to get these smiley faces to post in the message)
 
Maesfen said:
He's a CB, I'd expect nothing less, lol!
Friend had this problem once; she solved it by tying said planted horse to a breeze block and left him there. He was happy to move once she came back for him. The tying up times got fewer within the week and then he would march past the breeze block without looking at it; it cured him so I'm a big advocate of playing him at his own game and make him wait until you're good and ready to move yourself.
Click to expand...

Actually my Shagya colt went through the same phase of planting his feet - so not a CB trait.
 
Rollin said:
So you see, CB's are not stubborn just smarter than their owners. You need to indulge him.
Click to expand...

So so so True! I learnt this quite early on but OH MY GOD they do try us!!

He clearly recognises the fact that there is a hell of a lot more food in his stable than out in the field... what he doesn't realise is that that supply of food is NOT bottomless!!! lol!

Hmmmm... water pistol idea could work - he HATES water...

Clapping doesn't work, in fact I think it makes him laugh harder!

The only thing I think could work is a well timed thwack up the backside with a schooing whip.

Unfortunately leaving in the middle of the yard attached to something isn't an option as we have skip lorries, tractors etc coming and going all the time...
 
CBFan said:
So so so True! I learnt this quite early on but OH MY GOD they do try us!!

He clearly recognises the fact that there is a hell of a lot more food in his stable than out in the field... what he doesn't realise is that that supply of food is NOT bottomless!!! lol!

Hmmmm... water pistol idea could work - he HATES water...

Clapping doesn't work, in fact I think it makes him laugh harder!

The only thing I think could work is a well timed thwack up the backside with a schooing whip.

Unfortunately leaving in the middle of the yard attached to something isn't an option as we have skip lorries, tractors etc coming and going all the time...
Click to expand...

Don't be silly. What better way to bomb proof your young'un than to tie 'im up in front of a tractor.
 
Lol been having this issue with little Ronald and his started as soon as it started being dark in the evenings, he couldnt possibly walk in the dark and would just plant...no pulling, pushing, zig zagging or anything would get him to walk arghhhhh!!! was actually beginning to think he was blind in the dark lol....

It was getting to the stage when yard groom would actually give up on him and leave him out - the answer my OH (big built man) handled him for few days, leading him in and out etc and now he's good as gold!!!

I think he just needed a reminder from someone not his mummy or smaller than him lol!! Is there anyone else that could handle him for a few days and get him out the habit?

Rons not a CB lol
 
Rollin, I know he's big but sadly I know he's not indestructable...

I am so so so glad I'm not the only one... I really was starting to feel useless.

I'm off to scotland for a few days this week so he's got my dad (All 6ft 4 of him) looking after him so we'll see if that makes a difference... I'm sure he'll be perfect for him - he usually is... but it will be interesting to see if it lasts... wish us luck! it's getting silly now!

oh and I was also starting to wonder about his eyes...except he doesn't do it in the dark... strange that... something tells me he wants his tea! and yes... have tried bribery... works for a few days and then it stops working
 
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Most youngsters go through this. Get a Monty roberts headcoller, or something that pulls really tight across the poll.

When he pulls back, keep hold and hold until he gives up, and takes a step forward, then imediately release the pressure. Done correctly this always works.

Sometimes i have been absolutely knackered, hanging on if im on my own... but you have to have mind over matter.

Or just get someone to walk behind him with a stick and give him a smack on the back side!
 
Daisychain said:
Most youngsters go through this. Get a Monty roberts headcoller, or something that pulls really tight across the poll.

When he pulls back, keep hold and hold until he gives up, and takes a step forward, then imediately release the pressure. Done correctly this always works.

Sometimes i have been absolutely knackered, hanging on if im on my own... but you have to have mind over matter.

Or just get someone to walk behind him with a stick and give him a smack on the back side!
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I do have and use a Dually halter (as mentioned in My OP) and I do use it with the pressure release method, properly timed etc etc... I am often stood hanging on but he has started giving a little tug back (which temporarily releases pressure - until I catch up with him) if you have visions of 5ft10 stringbean me being launched through the air by 17hh CB you won't be far wrong... As I just said, I am concious of the fact that he is learning his strength... something I want to avoid.
 
On a more serious note - what about some Monty Roberts join up? I do use his techniques quite a lot. Have a look at this video taken by my son(we are pants with a camera). First bit is my Shagya colt as a yearling with his dam, second is me bringing 16.3hh stallion Arthur down to the yard.

He is four in the film, just backed and out at night. Note he doesn't leave me at the gate, even though the yard has five mares waiting!! I am off camera and he follows me. He trots on when I shoo him on for poo sniffing - not allowed even though he is a stallion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vmt9gFgpyM
 
Thanks Rollin... Yes I'm a firm believer in MR and have done join up with him... in fact the few times he has got loose from me (out on walks) he won't actually go very far before he stops and thinks 'S**T! better wait for her!' and then either stands and waits or comes back to me... hmmm... I may invest in a session with a local RA to see if we can crack it properly. Thanks again!
 
CBFan said:
I do have and use a Dually halter (as mentioned in My OP) and I do use it with the pressure release method, properly timed etc etc... I am often stood hanging on but he has started giving a little tug back (which temporarily releases pressure - until I catch up with him) if you have visions of 5ft10 stringbean me being launched through the air by 17hh CB you won't be far wrong... As I just said, I am concious of the fact that he is learning his strength... something I want to avoid.
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I have had the same problem with my horse in the past and occasionally still do - and he's 4.


Richard Maxwell came and had a session with my horse and used a different kind of pressure halter (not everyine likes them). More importantly, he also taught him that he can't get away from it. Now if I have any problems I just pop it on for a day or two when leading and he behaves himself again. When he plants, I keep the pressure on and he gives in within a few seconds, he usually repeats it again after a few strides, I keep the pressure on and that's the last of it. I use it less than once a month.

However, I would recommend a special session for teaching him that he can't get away. Bailey threw his toys out when he realised his usual tactics wouldn't work and I would never have had the skill or courage to hang on and work him through it. Nor is it the kind of lesson to have in a greasy paddock or yard.

Maxwell, sorted him out in less than 20 minutes. I know I would have bottled it and been unsuccessful even with the pressure headcollar - but the job is now done and I'm very grateful.
 
I don't know the name for this technique - if it has one - but it does seem to help the horse to learn to lead.
One person either side of the horse each with a lead rope attached to the headcollar. They both hold a dressage whip horizontally in front of the horse like double gates. When you want the horse to walk you both "open" the gate and point the whips forwards, You walk with the whips making a corridor for the horse to walk through. Then when you want to stop you "close" the gate bringing the whips back to the horses chest. No hitting, just touching. I've only had to do it three times with any horse before they get the idea that when the human moves they do, when human stops they stop.
If someone could supply a name I expect there is a video on Youtube.
goodluck
 
Thanks for the thaughts guys... I tried using a 'be nice' halter before and he really didn't like it and I much prefer the way the dually works, and so does he. I also like the fact that it is safe to tie up in and I don't have to use the control part of it if he is being good but I can quickly switch if neccessary... I think I'm going to do some ground work over the next few days and see how we get on... Thanks all!
 
Daisychain said:
Or just get someone to walk behind him with a stick and give him a smack on the back side!
Click to expand...

This would do it for me. My youngster has tried to stay in the barn once or twice (free food in there) I did all the wrong things - basically belting him with the end of a long lead rope and shouting at him, chasing him in front of me. He jumps to attention and walks alongside me meekly now. Sometimes we do analyse things too much.
 
Turn him around and walk the other direction then turn back?

Try and make him walk in a zig-zag way. So he gets slightly knocked off balance and has to move?

Get someone to walk at his side and when he stops they pop a leadrope around him bum and nudge/push him forwards instead of pulling at his head?

Make it uncomfortable for him to stand still? Wiggle the rope, hold tight so there is pressure on him then as soon as he walks reward him by realsing pressure?
 
My Appy used to do this, i tried all sorts, in the end i got my sister to bash him on the bottom with a sweeping brush or schooling whip. But i also found that if he planted, if i put pressure on the leadrope, without looking at him and constantly pulling, when he did eventually walk forward, then the pressure was released followed by lots of praise.
Good luck :)
x
 
I sorted out my youngster by tieing a plastic bag to the end of schooling whip. I found shaking the bag/whip at her bum much more effective than smacking. If she does it again I just carry the schooling whip with bag again and as soon as she sees it shes moving again very quickly.
 
Thanks again for the thoughts... I went to the yard with a positive mental attitude tonight (although the evening isn't the problem) and got him in, whipped his rug off and got to work. Just practiced leading him round the yard, walk trot trot walk, stand etc etc and he followed my every move, was a really good lad... didn't put a foot wrong but we'll see how he behaves in the morning with turnout!

I'll continue this for a few days and see if there's any improvement.

Pushing / pulling at the bum end really aint gonna work... he's a big horse!

If the schooling whip alone stops working altogether I was going to tie a plastic bag to it but TBH I can really only see it working a couple of times... he VERY quickly becomes desensitised to things...

Will update in the morning!
 
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