Youngster too much for me?

[Spanish Dressage]

Would love some advice. Bought myself a lovely 3 year old wb last year, I am a competitive amateur and was left a little bit of money, after only ever buying cheap projects I thought why not!! I could always sell him on if too much for me.
I did all the backing/groundwork, then found out I was pregnant. So didn't get on him but carried on doing bits on the ground. In March he started having eye issues - after further investigation he has uvetis in both, which is being managed, he has life time insurance. He has just been away to be backed, has been a bit reactive but was walking, trotting, cantering in fields, doing little jumps before coming home. The guy he went to said he needs work to keep his brain going and he sometimes puts his back up when starting but gets over it. I rode him before he came home and he was fine.
I got him home and rode him the next day- he was ok but back up a bit, did some bits with him over the next few days. Gave him a day off and then got on him, walked around fields, no warning bronced me off. Lunged him then got back on. He was ok again, but he keeps putting his back up. I think he is sore around withers, so getting his back checked and saddle checked, it has made me not trust him.

Not sure what to do as if he didn't have uvetis I would consider I may have over horsed myself and sell him, as always thought I had that option until diagnosis, which makes him worthless. What are my options, I am going to get someone to come ride him a bit for me, he has only been back home a week and a few days, does he need to resettle? Any ideas? Could he have more issues re cold backed?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

first of all i would get the vet out, and also the saddle fitter as at 3 he'll still be growing and changing shape and the saddle may no longer fit. Putting his back up sounds like saying,'ouch, don't like that.' then the bronc 'I SAID I DIDN'T LIKE IT. I CAN'T COPE.'

also, when you say the uveitis is being 'managed' what do you mean? eye issues can make horses more reactive - as prey animals, being less able to detect danger/losing part of their early warning system makes them more vulnerable, even without factoring in that it can be incredibly painful. So maybe worth reviewing that with the vet too.

 

[Dave's Mam]

You say you don't trust him, but it sounds like he's sore & his eyesight may be a bit bad, so why should he be trusting you? Also he's 3?

 

[BBP]

Cold backed is usually a euphemism for kissing spines or other back issue.

I assume the horse is now 4 as you got him last year as a 3yo? How long was he away being backed for? I don’t know enough about uveitis but I’d look more into that and how his vision and sense of security may be affected.

With my mindset now, as soon as I felt that back go up, or as soon as the person I sent him to told me he puts his back up, I’d be waving red flags thinking either he is hurting, or that they didn’t take all the time needed to be taken to ensure he was 100% comfortable and confident to move on to the next step. That his little signs and signals prior to getting to that point were overlooked to get to the point where they can say he has been backed.

Go back to square 1, investigations of back and saddle (including X-rays and ultrasound of back to know where you stand on that). I would also X-ray neck as compression of the spine when the reins are picked up and the horse alters his frame may also result in the same. Once those are all good, then restart and look for the tiny tells that he is not completely relaxed and comfortable. Don’t just get another strong rider who can put a sticking plaster over those things.

That would be my plan. My theory with my youngsters now is, if I am not 100% confident to get on, then I have not done the groundwork leading up to backing properly. Because sitting on a happy confident horse should not be a big deal. My previous horse decked me so many times when I backed him, because he wasn’t ready to be backed. He was also in pain. I just didn’t know enough back then.

 

[Spanish Dressage]

He is now 4 and a half. I got him at 3.
He is on steroid drops and bute for his eyes daily which have improved hugely, he is under the care of a specialist as well as my own vet and is seen by them monthly for this.
He is having the physio today and saddle filter next week as I am worried it may be a pain response to the saddle, but I am also happy to have vet depending on what they say.

 

[I'm Dun]

uevitis is incredibly painful, worse in bright light etc, combine that with a sore back and probably an underlying issue and he's actually a superstar for putting up with all of this, until he just couldn't anymore. Id investigate the issues,including back and neck xrays and give him 6 months off and look to restart him in the spring so long as he's sound.

 

[BBP]

He is now 4 and a half. I got him at 3.
He is on steroid drops and bute for his eyes daily which have improved hugely, he is under the care of a specialist as well as my own vet and is seen by them monthly for this.
He is having the physio today and saddle filter next week as I am worried it may be a pain response to the saddle, but I am also happy to have vet depending on what they say.

Ah ok. I think if I was actively treating with bute and drops for eye pain there is no way I would be riding that horse. As and when it is fully controlled and pain free, then I would go vet first, X-rays etc, then saddler and physio. And then restart really gradually.

 

[Spanish Dressage]

Thanks so much for the replies. In hindsight I think I sent him to wrong person to be started. X-rays, time off and gentle re starting depending on the outcomes of vet seem best.

The vet gave him the all clear eye wise to be started - he will likely always be on some medication for his uvetis, he is under the best eye vet in the country, so have gone with his advice.

 

[TheMule]

I'm afraid these kind of reactive horses generally have pain as the root of the issue and can take a lot of time, money and heartbreak to reach the conclusion that they just aren’t happy to be ridden.
As he's insured, I'd check the saddle then get a really thorough work up from the vet including neck and back x-rays, hind suspensory scan and hock x-rays

 

[eahotson]

He seems to have a lot of issues.The eyes would worry me.Get the vet out to check back.Depending on what he/she says you may well have to retire or put down sadly.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Id definitely get the back fixed first. If he has an ongoing uveitis issue, there are measures you can take to manage that. Cold backed as BBP said is just a cover up for some other kind of issue going on.

 

[Clodagh]

Cold backed is usually a euphemism for kissing spines or other back issue.

My youngster I bred was the sweetest quietest horse and when backed he used to hunch and squeak occasionally but didn’t react to start with. Then as he started doing little hacks out he bronced like I’ve never been bronced with before, eventually x rays revealed severe kissing spines.

 

[Floofball]

I’d be getting vet first as I’d want an all clear that everything was alright before riding him again if I didn’t trust him. As a side note both steroid (I know steroid drops are very low dose but assume still get into the system) and bute can effect stomach linings, with extra factors like yard moves, being backed and potentially a source of pain somewhere, I’d also want to discount ulcers. He’s trying to tell you something and I hope you get to the bottom of it

 

[scats]

First things first- get your saddle checked. I try to start with the most obvious/likely cause and then work through the rest as required.
If the behaviour continues after a saddle check/change then I’d be getting a vet to give his back a check over and possibly xray for peace of mind.

 

[Polos Mum]

In your shoes I would seriously consider just giving him 6-12 months off - chilling out, manage his eyes and then look at starting again when he's less sore.

If you rest him now, get a good once over from the physio so you can do some in hand stretches etc then come end of March when it's warmer, longer days and he's feeling more comfortable he may be a totally different horse.

He won't forget what he's learned in the basics - but he'll be much more amenable when he's not sore anywhere and he's had some time to chill and grow up.

 

[Polos Mum]

When I tried to book my rising 4 year old in with two reputable local breakers, neither of them would take him that young. Which I thought was quite telling.

One told me to leave him in the field for 12 months and the other came out and gave me some in hand lessons to keep his brain working and build his body for a year before a saddle went near him.

 

[eahotson]

When I tried to book my rising 4 year old in with two reputable local breakers, neither of them would take him that young. Which I thought was quite telling.

One told me to leave him in the field for 12 months and the other came out and gave me some in hand lessons to keep his brain working and build his body for a year before a saddle went near him.

Good decent people obviously.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Hi, Quite a year you've had with a pregnancy & major veterinary issues! Sorry things didn't workout as you'd pictured with your horse.

Firstly take a breath and take all the pressure off yourself. There's no sell-by-date for backing a horse. He wont be going anywhere with uveitis & you'll have your hands full. Heck you could wait until your new baby starts school if you'd have more time, energy & money then.

Secondly, "cold backed" isn't a separate characteristic, it's a symptom. If it helps, re-read your account of what happened but putting "he limped a bit" or "he coughed" in place of "he put his back up" and think how you'd have reacted.

 

[Trouper]

Goodness - he is only just over half way growing. If you have ever looked at the bone growth rates for horses you will see that his upper skeleton is the last to "form" specifically to allow for alll the growth, muscle and ligament changes taking place in a growing youngster. While keeping close tabls on his eyes, I would turn him away for a year and let everything "re-set" - including his brain! You could x-ray his spine I suppose to look for anything really nasty but then it would need to be done again before re-backing.

Also I would forget tack - he will change too much to make any fitting now worthwhile.

 

[paddy555]

Thanks so much for the replies. In hindsight I think I sent him to wrong person to be started. X-rays, time off and gentle re starting depending on the outcomes of vet seem best.

The vet gave him the all clear eye wise to be started - he will likely always be on some medication for his uvetis, he is under the best eye vet in the country, so have gone with his advice.

I'm afraid that there is no way I would be getting on a horse with ERU in both eyes. I most definitely wouldn't let anyone else get on. That is from personal experience of having done so and it is not safe. At 4yo this is not good and I think you are going to have to think about what you are going to do long term. Can you cope with keeping a passenger.

Whether the saddle fits, he is cold backed, you can't cope with a youngster, he needs more time, needs to trust you etc etc is irrelevant. He has the potential to react and bolt and you will have absolutely no warning. That may be on the road, in traffic, anywhere. I'm afraid it gets worse as they get older.

The problem with ERU is that it is incredibly painful. Like having a constant migraine inside your head.

With my horse I had 3 vets who told me his reactiveness which at 3 was slight and got worse as he got older was nothing to do with his ERU in only one eye, the equine ophthalmologist told me basically I was the problem and to send him away for training. After removing the eye, and therefore removing the pain, the horse told me all the vets were wrong. None of them appeared to have considered the underlying pain. The change in the horse after eye removal was incredible.

I'm afraid the brain doesn't reset. You get days when all goes well and you think they have got it and then for no reason whatsover they react.
If you put that pain along with any back pain you have a very painful and reactive horse who is going to struggle to listen through the pain.

Sadly in your case your have 2 eyes with ERU. Equine ophthalmologists seem to love ERU. They discuss gent injections, implants etc. In the end most end up with a large bill and enucleation.

ERU in a young horse has the main symptom of you thinking you are a bad trainer or the horse is the thickest ever. It takes a lot of time as it progresses for you to realise neither is true. The underlying problem gets worse and the horse more dangerous.

There is a FB group Equine Recurrent Uveitis (ERU) support group that you may find helpful.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Dex went through a stage of putting his back up, the first time he did it I got off as he truly felt bridge shaped and like he was going to burst and then didnt ride again until saddle checked, and it was the saddle (despite one fitter telling me it was fine). I was also considering kissing spine and getting really worried as he went from zero to stuffy and humpy and horrid, but a new saddle fixed him almost immediately - he isn't a blood horse so his reactions were generally more understated than what you might expect from your horse. My MO if I were you would be change saddle, get vet to do a lameness workup with a spine xray which isn't as expensive as you might think, and then if neither brings anything up and neither does physio, I'd chuck him out till after winter. I think to some degree you can expect a hot horse, because that's what you have bought, warmbloods aren't known for sensibility generally, but it does sound as though something is up here.

I won't comment on the eyes as I know nothing about the condition.

I think some of the replies to your thread are a bit OTT, so please don't beat yourself up, you're doing your best.

 

[J_sarahd]

As someone who had a youngster who was incredibly reactive, I would get the saddle checked then get back and neck x-rays, if the saddle fits okay. My mare was unpredictable - one day she was completely fine, the next she’d be like a coiled spring and would bronc/rear/throw herself around and she was diagnosed with a whole host of issues. Not saying yours has even half the amount she did but if anything, it’s taught me that behaviour like that is very often pain related.

 

[Spanish Dressage]

Thanks for all of the replies. All very interesting and different opinions.
In my gut and after all your replies I feel there is more going on pain wise -maybe eyes, back, saddle, kissing spine etc. I will of course start investigating further before making any decisions.
I am a competent rider and have had horses many years. I did not expect this horse to be a saint as I bought him to be a competition horse, but broncing is something which I am not confident dealing with.
He was 4.5 years old when sent away to be backed. I did not want to leave him until he was 5/6 to be sat on as he was getting to the point of being bored, I have always started them in there 4th year, no problems. With breaks until they are 5/6 as and when needed.
No expense has been spared on this horse especially his eyes and I am only going on experts opinions. I fear I maybe going down a rabbit hole of costs and problems, but rather that than carry on and both or one of us get seriously injured!

 

[IrishMilo]

I'd personally cut my losses and put him down now. I think this poor boy may have had a chance if the UV was in one eye only but you can't remove both eyes in fairness. No one will want him and even if they did it wouldn't be fair on him to pass him on. I also think ulcers from long term bute to treat the UV is a dead cert and it sounds like he's got some other issues going on too.

 

[Fransurrey]

I’d be getting vet first as I’d want an all clear that everything was alright before riding him again if I didn’t trust him. As a side note both steroid (I know steroid drops are very low dose but assume still get into the system) and bute can effect stomach linings, with extra factors like yard moves, being backed and potentially a source of pain somewhere, I’d also want to discount ulcers. He’s trying to tell you something and I hope you get to the bottom of it

Same. Do physios not work under vet referral anymore? I know people use them for routine check ups (as have I), but this is different.

Another thing that would worry me is that he's still showing signs of pain whilst on bute and steroids, so agree with the ulcers suggestions. I'd definitely consider some time off and get him on some omeprazole/equivalent to help his stomach lining.

Sorry to say that if you can't keep him on bute/steroids long term due to ulcers, I'd consider letting him go, too, as it's a QoL issue then.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Before making any big decisions I would be having a vet work-up too - there is every possibility he "simply" has a sore back and needs time to rest and grow before working again.

Having said that, the prospect of having him on medication for uveitis for life is baffling to me, as is the idea that a vet would say they are OK to ride when undergoing treatment for such a painful condition. We have an Appaloosa who has had a few bouts of uveitis but is now well-managed with masks - we were lucky and have sometimes had to treat him with eye drops and pain relief in the past, but I wouldn't consider that as a long-term solution.

Hopefully the vet will have some ideas for you and you can find a way forwards.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I wouldn't ride him for now get the vet to do back xrays and neck and have a thorough look at everything before continuing.

In regards to his eyes my friend has a horse with the condition and it is managed and the horse is fine, so as you have medication for that I would just make sure it's working for him.

 

[paddy555]

I won't comment on the eyes as I know nothing about the condition.

I think some of the replies to your thread are a bit OTT, so please don't beat yourself up, you're doing your best.

I'm not sure if that is aimed at my post but sadly I do know about the condition and have been in the situation OP is in (minus any back pain) . I was very ignorant (despite many of years of horse keeping and riding) I managed to avoid one of us getting seriously hurt let alone the horse. JUST. I spent years trying to work out why I couldn't train my youngster. It never ever dawned on me in my wildest dreams what the problem was.

Having said that, the prospect of having him on medication for uveitis for life is baffling to me, as is the idea that a vet would say they are OK to ride when undergoing treatment for such a painful condition. We have an Appaloosa who has had a few bouts of uveitis but is now well-managed with masks - we were lucky and have sometimes had to treat him with eye drops and pain relief in the past, but I wouldn't consider that as a long-term solution.

this. If the horse lives to say 20 is he going to be treated with steroid eye drops daily and presumably he is also on bute.

this link from UC Davis tells you about insidious ERU. It is easy to know you have a problem if you get symptoms eg running eye, eye closed etc (where it is normal to treat with eye drops,, bute, mask and keeping out of sunlight. Obviously no one would ride a horse in that condition. There is also insidious ERU which the link tells you about. Nothing to see, seems perfectly OK to ride. Horse however is in pain, vision is affected, reacts and then it can do anything. Being on it's back is not a good place to be.

Equine Recurrent Uveitis

Equine recurrent uveitis (ERU), or moon blindness, is the most common cause of blindness in horses worldwide. It is characterized by inflammation of the eye.

ceh.vetmed.ucdavis.edu

the only way I learnt to diagnose insidious ERU was the horse's temperament. If he was OK and friendly etc he was fine but when he got offhand, a bit arsy and unpleasant I had a good idea we were coming into a problem. Then sometimes, but not always, I would go out the following day and find the eye running.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'm not sure if that is aimed at my post but sadly I do know about the condition and have been in the situation OP is in (minus any back pain) . I was very ignorant (despite many of years of horse keeping and riding) I managed to avoid one of us getting seriously hurt let alone the horse. JUST.


this. If the horse lives to say 20 is he going to be treated with steroid eye drops daily and presumably he is also on bute.

It wasn't aimed at your post

 

[PurBee]

Considering what others have posted about his eye condition, of which i have no personal experience but it sounds a significant pain source issue - i’m wondering if the bridle/bit could exacerbate the eye discomfort/pain?
I’m pondering out loud really, and your eye specialist could be consulted deeper about if the nerves linked to the eyes, can be affected by oral/jaw/facial nerves?

I’m just reminded of when tooth pain inflammation can cause frontal brain/eye migraines in humans, whether it works the other way around: eye nerve pain causing jaw/teeth nerve tenderness/sinus issues?
A metal bit clanking around in his mouth or bridle leather pressure on facial nerves could be the exacerbating issue to an otherwise well managed condition?

Would either switching bits to rubber or bitless, or a different design bridle that misses major sinus areas and facial nerve points help prevent a pain response in the eyes?

Realising he’s on medication to keep inflammation etc controlled, despite that i’m left wondering if bridle/bit fit impacts the UV, and could be re-designed for such a horse.
Has he been lunged with bridle/bit fitted and see how he reacts to bit/bridle pressure without a rider on his back? It might help rule-out eye/face pain V’s back issue/pain.

Im sorry youre going through this, many folk often say on here with complex cases, “if only they could actually talk” to save us investigating absolutely every probable pathway and just pinpoint the issue to immediately treat it. You sound like youre doing everything you can and hes a lucky boy to have such a diligent owner.