Your Horse/ILPH quote re Fat Farms

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I thought some of you might be interested in this quote I have taken from Your Horse issue 301 dated 11 October - 11 November 2007

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With such cruelty taking place, it is understandable that horse lovers want to help, but ILPH spokesperson Emma Seel warns that rescue attempts aren't necessarily the answer.
She explained that buying these horses ran the risk of funding the industry. Sellers didn't care if a horse went for meat or was rehomed, as long as they were paid and, if sentiment was involved, might be tempted to demand more money.She also said that if a horse was rescued after a long journey, another journey would put him under undue stress. She said the best way people could help was backing campaigns that tackle the bigger issue



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......exactly what many of us have been saying. This is exactly the reason I don't "rescue" the massive amount of these types of horses over here; all you are doing is fuelling this business.
 
I can appreciate and understand where the ILPH is coming from. There is a concern that some farmers who sell their horses for the meat trade may look upon 'rescuers' as an additional way of earing a little extra by increasing their prices. This is a situation to be avoided.

As some forum members may be aware i rescued a french percheron in august-he was destined to be exported to italy for slaughter at the young age of 18 months old.
I personally felt and still do that saving him was a very positive step and one that i would do again, under the correct circumstances. I paid meat price for him-no more no less.

I support the ILPH hook not hoof campaign and see this as the way forward but i chose to actively make a difference to the life of one horse that otherwise would not have that life now and of course not let us forget the misery of the fateful journey that he thankfully has not known.

Of course my sentiments may not be shared by all and that is fine, this was something personal and important to me.
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[ QUOTE ]
I thought some of you might be interested in this quote I have taken from Your Horse issue 301 dated 11 October - 11 November 2007

[ QUOTE ]
With such cruelty taking place, it is understandable that horse lovers want to help, but ILPH spokesperson Emma Seel warns that rescue attempts aren't necessarily the answer.
She explained that buying these horses ran the risk of funding the industry. Sellers didn't care if a horse went for meat or was rehomed, as long as they were paid and, if sentiment was involved, might be tempted to demand more money.She also said that if a horse was rescued after a long journey, another journey would put him under undue stress. She said the best way people could help was backing campaigns that tackle the bigger issue



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NO SH1T SHERLOCK......


OMG...I AM SOOOO SURPRISED................
 
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I can appreciate and understand where the ILPH is coming from. There is a concern that some farmers who sell their horses for the meat trade may look upon 'rescuers' as an additional way of earing a little extra by increasing their prices. This is a situation to be avoided.

As some forum members may be aware i rescued a french percheron in august-he was destined to be exported to italy for slaughter at the young age of 18 months old.
I personally felt and still do that saving him was a very positive step and one that i would do again, under the correct circumstances. I paid meat price for him-no more no less.

I support the ILPH hook not hoof campaign and see this as the way forward but i chose to actively make a difference to the life of one horse that otherwise would not have that life now and of course not let us forget the misery of the fateful journey that he thankfully has not known.

Of course my sentiments may not be shared by all and that is fine, this was something personal and important to me.
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This here is in black and white that your "rose coloured" specs are slightly out of focus, bluebottle...

so please, get into line, and get BEHIND the ILPH.


because, honestly honey, they do REALLY know the [****] thats happening.......


and they can do without folk who just THINK they know....ie YOU....
 
But how does that help the horse that took his place? Or the one after that?

The only way to stop this is, as JM quite rightly says, by getting behind the ILPH and not going off "rescuing" horses left, right and centre.

Generally there is a reason why these horses are going for meat...they are not suitable to be ridden and surely it's better for the horse to go for meat rather than be passed from home to home for the rest of its life.

In the UK we need to grow up a bit and realise that some people do eat horse meat and stop being so silly about it all.
 
I can only answer for myself and on my own situation but before rescuing Sultan i did do my homework and asked similar questions to the ones you have asked.

The horse we bought was owned by a mushroom farmer in France, he owned approx 38 horses but he had become ill and needed to give up farming (the horses were used for their manure for the mushroom!).

By the time we heard of Sultan 30 of the horses had been sent to Italy for slaughter. He was one of the remainding eight who were destined for italy in mid august.

So to answer one of your points-therefor we knew that Sultan would not be replaced with another horse.

Anyone who knows me well also knows that i am very commited to my horses. I would not have rescued Sultan if i thought that he would need to be sold at any time. He will only ever be fostered out and i will be very particular about how that would happen.
We have just loaned out two horses that we have owned for several years and ensured that prospective homes were strictly vetted. Our horses never get passed around and the same will go for Sultan.

My issue is not with horse slaughter but is with live export of horses for slaughter. As i have stated on another post, my intention in rescuing Sultan was to raise awareness through publicity of his rescue to encourage people to become more aware of the live export issue and support the ILPH campaign against live export.

Which is why i am happy to keep involved in discussions regards this topic and answer any questions i am asked.
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So if one person takes one horse from the meat market and rescues one equine, be it from a dept in France or one destined for the meat trade in Britain we are perpetrating that business? Y'know people who are bothered about the meat trade should not be focusing their tirade on people who save one pony or horse from the meat trade, they should be standing up and showing their backbone to the indiscriminate breeders and the discarders of horses and ponies we have in this country.

If we all stood together, like a lot of dog breeders are (trust me I know what I am talking about) to try and protect the equines of our country by not just saying 'those bas****s' breed and sell on, buy for meat and then do nothing. I love horses and I think we owe it to ourselves and our bloody horses to try and get things more regulated, it would reduce the amount of excess ponies and horses in this country. I am not picking but doesnt anyone think, if dog breeders can pull together to slowly wipe out the baddies, don't you think this could eventually be possible for our horses? Instead of us all just saying 'well there is too much excess?' Maybe we could eventually one day have it more regulated and controlled. We owe it to them, surely?
 
I agree with you completely re. the indiscriminate (sp?) breeders. Breeding from something with a bad temperament, bad conformation, or from something with a condition that could potentially be passed on, shouldn't be allowed.

How do you suggest this is stopped? Genuine question BTW, not being difficult.
 
And by the way, I would quite happily rescue one equine from the meat market because there are hundreds to take that place not just one. I am NOT responsible for the hundreds following behind but I can do something about one and that would mean I have rescued one from hundreds and those hundreds of ponies and horses that go to slaughter are minus one.

Crap if my one makes any difference. Focus your venom on the ones who supply and not the ones who rescue.
 
Hi Chestnut cob,

The way I see it I think if we all as horse owners, along with the ILPH, other rescue societies. possibly including racehorses were to make a stand, trust me, it is not impossible, surely somewhere, somehow we could make a start. I am no brains of britain but I would back anyone or any society trying to put legislature forward to reduce the indiscriminate breeding we have in Britain. Worthy dog breeders have been fighting their cause for their breeds against a**holes especially in the last couple of years with bull breeds and along with horses I think it is about time we took a stand so that we could at least have the puppy farmers and horse meat breeders pulled as far down as possible.
 
I do agree with you. There is far too much crap being bred that just ends up being passed around when in reality it might actually be better off for it to end up in a tin
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I wonder if this has to start with the racing industry?
 
Thats my point, there are many of us who feel the same way.
And plenty ponies and horses who end up through the marts, auctions who have never had or would never have even got near enough what our horses experience (arent even or shouldnt have been bred for in the first place) I once read that almost 80 percent or more of horses slaughtered in Britain are throughbred or of thoroughbred origin so you are probably right, maybe we should start with the racing industry and then move on to the twats who breed our natives for meat also, I could go on... Thanks Chestnut Cob for answering anyway xx
 
I don't have a problem with natives being bred for meat, as long as that's where they end up (by this I mean the chances are they won't have great conformation or temperaments, so if they're destined for the meat man anyway let's make sure that's where they end up). If this is happening then we do need to look at the conditions they're kept/raised in, and how they're transported/slaughtered...in the same way I would expect us to take responsibility for humane slaughter of cattle and sheep.

It's a difficult one because if there wasn't so much indiscriminate breeding there wouldn't be the number of horses going to slaughter for meat, however there is clearly a market for horse meat so how do you meet the demand? It's not something I know the answer to.

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Thanks Chestnut Cob for answering anyway xx

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No problem, partly I wanted to prove that I wasn't being venomous in my other response and that I don't just think we shouldn't rescue these horses from the meat man. I think that is part of the problem and I can understand why people want to do it, but maybe it is potentially part of a greater solution...
 
I doubt very much that its going to stop. I too do not have a problem with natives (reared loosely like cattle) going for meat if slaughtered humanely as near to their place of origin as possible, but with the racing and sporthorse industry as it is, money will continue to talk and the vast amount being bred will have to be bred, purely because of the percentage of horses that are most likely to make the grade.

Industry is the keyword here.

Mind you, if anyone wants to 'rescue' a horse, why the hell not? I bought my first hackney from a no hoper sale as a two year old, green as hell and a bony shell of a beast, and she spent almost 32 years with me. Our journey was very rewarding, and, me being very young at the time, my pocket money would only stretch to meat price.

I indeed support the ILPH, but this hook v hoof campaign, although very laudable, has Money with a capital M as a very serious adversary.

'Rescuing' a horse is a drop in the ocean in the present climate, but so is not rescuing and hoping that lobbying will have a greater effect. I feel this issue is catch 22 in most ways.
 
You just mimicked exactly the problem and if you cant see why, then no-one can, ergo.

There are so many beautiful horses in this world, wastage they say but to me if I had money I wouldnt let those bar stewards breed any more. Seems that too much of us are willing to complain rather and sit on our bums.
 
It's great to read the constructive comments on this subject. You replies reflect well thought out and considered opinions
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As some may or may not know the ILPH was set up in 1927 by Ada Cole after witnessing the suffering of horses facing live export. When you think about it that is over 70 years of trying to ban this awful practise-but yet it still continues? why?

Since buying/rescuing Sultan i have had the opportunity to speak to so many people about Live Export of horses, many not even horse owners-just interested people who read the article in the local paper and wanted to do something but did not know what to do. I directed everyone to the ILPH campaign advising that they could sign the government petition.
Of courseI know i could have donated money to the campaign instead but for me this what and how i chose to use my money and felt and still do that it has and still is serving a very good purpose.
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Can I congratulate everyone on not getting heated this time round. The whole problem is massive and finding a solution is such a big problem.
 
Personally I think if the PMU thing was knocked on the head, this would be a massive start! It has pretty much been done away with over here now and we are just starting to see a difference now.

Trouble is, it has only moved to Europe and that's why the market is totally swamped with WB's - lots are shipped off to Britain where people appear to be happy with their WB - but plenty are not and end up in the meat trade. Tell everyone you know about the synthetic HRT that is available nowadays - there really is no need to continue this ghastly practice! It's not going to totally knock this on the head but it is a start.

So long as there is a horsemeat business in Europe then the Comtois, Percherons etc will always be bred - that is okay to me so long as they are farmed and killed in an ethical manner.

Racehorses? Well this will always happen too - there are still lots of racehorses who don't make the grade ending up at the feedlots over here....sad but I can't see a way around trying to stop people from trying to breed their million dollar horse!
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More abattoirs are needed in the UK - horses and other livestock should not have to travel many miles to be killed; and they certainly shouldn't be travelled live overseas.....refrigerated trucks have been around for many many years now, so no excuse.

Education seems like a good bet too - French and European counterparts might benefit from being educated in the moral and ethical issues with regards to animal husbandry and slaughter. The UK certainly appears to be very "up" on what is going on; therefore why are the Europeans so backward in this? Do they prefer to turn a blind eye? Or does it come down to poverty and trying to get their last cent out of their animals at the expense of dignity and compassion?


There really is no one answer to this problem and I think it needs to be tackled at many levels. The ILPH is, and always has done a marvellous job. Support them because as I've said many many times, they are the ones who have the clout to actually make waves.
 
The farmers in France don't seem to share the compassion that we do for our horses.

I know it takes some pursuading to encourage them to sell a horse to a prospective purchaser rather than it be exported for slaughter-so thats says a lot about them.

In 2005 99,000 horses were exported for slaughter within the EU AND 85% destined for Italian slaughterhouses.
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I dont think its just the French who haven't got compassion when people think its ok for native ponies to be bred for slaughter. I have just bought a native pony who in his short life he's just 5 years old has been passed around, he has had 6 homes, and yet he is one of the most genuine ponies you will find and yet this is the sort of pony that it is ok to be bred for the meat trade. I cannot believe that anyone who says they love horses can agree to any horse being sent for slaughter. Words fail me.
 
Cows are bred for slaughter, pigs are, sheep are, ducks, chickens, shall I go on? Personally, we may be against slaughtering horses and ponies, but this total 'oh no' attitude is stupid. It happens. It has always happened. It will always (probably) happen, so we must accept it and work to get their lives, short or long as they are, decent lives.
 
i cant bear the thought but probably because i have never had to look after or worry about the sheep cows pigs etc like i do the horses. Eating horse is so accepted over here ( i am in switzerland) that i have strted to question my attitude, as donkey mad says surely better to make their short lives good ones if this is going on.
 
Are you also going to fight the consumption of dogs in places like Korea? You have one big fight ahead - you against the world!!!
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I think I say this everytime this subject comes up - so apologies! However you only have to read the fugly horse of the day blog (http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com) to see how prolific this problem is across the world.

The problem is twofold:
1) people who breed without thinking of the consequences
2) Horses being exported alive inadequately

The problem isn't the consumption of horsemeat, it is the method it gets onto the plates. This isn't that different to the Veal issue a few years back.
 
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I cannot believe that anyone who says they love horses can agree to any horse being sent for slaughter. Words fail me.

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Why not?
A horse has no more or less right to life then any other animal,cant understand why people are happy to eat beef/pork/lamb ect but not horse
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Eat what you like, but treat it well before it is sent to slaughter and give it a humane death.
 
You're obviously not the horse lovers you pretend to be, they're not a comodity that you can disregard when you've finished with them. they have every right to a life.
 
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