Your views please...

Weezy

Weezy

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Further to a lengthy debate below regarding getting off/staying on your horse when it plays up, I had a thought...

Quite a few people have said that they will get off a lead a horse past something that is scaring them, or stand at their horse's head and the horse will then react like a mouse and the ride can continue...so what is my question???

WHY should a horse react differently if your feet are on the floor or in the stirrups? Personally I haven't had a horse that reacts differently to a tractor whether I am on its back or leading it (ie, if it is a panicky horse it will panic regardless and to the same extent), and I would NOT expect a difference of reaction either.

What do the natural horsemanship/parelli people think? If you have trained your horse to see you as the alpha (or whatever you term it) then surely it should behave the same way whether you are on its back or by its head?

Ponderings for a Weds afternoon...
 
The only benefit to getting off the horse would be to eliminate the rider element - by that I mean if the rider is tense and therefore making the situation worse than it really should be. I would sooner stay aboard.

ETS I cannae spell
 
My daughter`s pony is generally very spooky, and will spend an entire ride being convinced that there is a monster creeping up behind him.
There are many occasions when he would be too terrified to be ridden past something, but would be persuaded to walk past if I was on foot leading him. He seems to find having me at his side very reasuring - strange, but lovable pony!
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I cant comment on n/h thoughts etc.
But my old mare Royale would follow me to the ends of the earth, if something really really scared her, provided I was on the ground next to her. It would have to be something really truly awful for her to balk in the first place but I could guarantee once I was by her side she trusted my judgement 100%
Unfortuantely I let her down once. I pushed and pushed her to go somewhere she really really didnt want to - she went because I asked her too and we ended up belly deep in awful black mud. I felt terrible and I never ever ignored her again.

I've just read that back and it sounds like I'm some sort of tree hugging bunny lover. I'm not. I just had the most incredible bond with that mare.
 
Personally the only time I would ever get off is at a tricky gate! (or maybe if my horse was rearing to the point it would go over backwards!)

Can't see why anyone would want the faff of getting on and off all the time anyway.

My personal opinion is that if you can't ride your horse past something then your horse either doesn't have confidence in the rider, has learnt naughty habits that rider isn't strong enough to overcome, or the rider is just plain sh*t scared!
 
I agree with Nuttymanxmare, I think for a lot of people its a confidence issue, and some people feel more in control on the ground. The horse may react in exactly the same way, but the rider may feel better equiped to cope with it depending on where they feel more confident.
 
I have got off my pony once, when I was trying to get him under a railway bridge for the first time. Normaly I would have used my legs, growled at him, and if necessary used my stick but i was riding with a friend, and she was on her rather manic TBx mare and only a few feet away so I thought making a big scene may not be the best plan. I got off, led him through and he's never had a problem going under there again.

However. I lead my pony by walking in front of him at all times, not by his walking by his head, I know it's probably not technically correct but in my mind I want him to be following me. It would then make sense that should he find something a little worrying, if he follows me through it and I get through safely, and he trusts me, he's OK.

I also think the main thing is getting your horse through/past whatever is worrying it, and if you have to get off to acheive that then so be it.

It's OK for me though, as if I get off I only have to scramble back on to a 14.1hh dopey pony - I'd imagine it's not so easy on a big, excited horse!!

Each to their own anyway, we all have our ways of working with our horses
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i'm with you, i can't why a horse would react diiferently
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. I personnelly would NEVER get off, as IMO you do have more say where you go from onboard, than on ground (even if rearing, spinning etc...). As i have a horse who proves my point brilliantly, on ground to lead can be a total TOAD!, but on board not an issues.
IMO horses have more muscle that us, but do have an extra brain cell
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I sat on the Donkey for 30 minutes once to get past a balloon in a field - would not get off her on principal - 30 minutes later we went backwards past the balloon!!

I have dismounted once when she was pratting about going over a little bridge and we were backing towards the river - discretion was the better part of valour here but no I do not think you should have to get off to get a horse to go forwards.
 
i used to get off and lead if my horse spooked or i thought she was going to but this was a confidence issue in the end i was leading more than i was riding,i dont think it made any difference to my horse if i was leading her or riding as i was tense anyway,in the end i sold her and bought a horse that i felt more confident on and it was the best thing i ever did, now i have got my confidence back i wouldnt get off and lead now that i know i can cope if she does react to something
 
When I was even more of a novice rider than I am now
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a couple of times I felt safer getting off Chum than trying to get him past a big lorry, my nerves were obviously making him worse but he walked past with me leading him okay.

I don't need to get off now.... fingers crossed
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In most situations I feel more confident on Ryu's back - we have had very few ridden issues none over spooking etc and he can be balshy on the ground I would feel unsafe if he was particulary scared and I was leading him, I would definately avoid dismounting on the roads as I'd feel out of control, however the other night I attempted to hack him down the drive of the new yard on his own I've led him quite happily up and down to cool off after work and a couple of times mounted on his own and in company, however by the field gate lurked the horse killing yellow water tub which is a normal water tub most of the time appart from Thursday nights between 6 and 6.30, on seeing it he actually ran backwards and I could feel his heart beating through the saddle, I reassured him with legs and it happened again he was on the verge of fleeing he was very tense and I didn't feeel safe so got off and led him past, it feltl ike the right thing to do and I don't feel by getting off 'he won' or its spoilt him.

So I suppose it would have to depend on the situaution although I would always put my safety first.
 
Interesting responses so far guys - kind of what I think - if a horse will stand for some big scary lorry to go past if you are holding him from the ground, he SHOULD do the same if you are sat on his back, if this isn't the case then the fear the horse feels 99.9% of the time comes from the rider.

Am all for getting off in immediate, dangerous situations (SSM, I think all of us would have gotten off in your situ LOL!), am just soo intrigued by the rider/horse dynamics of rider being on or off horse!
 
For the same reason, if you're with other people, you'd ask them to take their horse past first. As a lead. If I'm out on my own and I need to get past something and my horse is worried, I'll get off and lead him past, get back on and we're on our way. Less stress or hassle.
 
I'd rather stay aboard. I feel i have more control on my horse The only time i go off was going over a motor way bridge when my horse started pratting about getting close to the edge of the bridge. I didnt fancy going over the sides!
 
Could be confidence I know that when I first got Booke (x racer) she would get to various points on a hack and down tools no amount of persuasion would get her past. Get of and go past scarey thing first proving it's not scarey oh ok mum no bother then, progressed over time to hopping off leading past leading back again mounting then riding past which eventually led to a very happy hacker horse.

I guess you could say she didn't trust me in the beggining but learnt to over time by my actions. Worked for me and I'd happily do the same thing again.
 
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For the same reason, if you're with other people, you'd ask them to take their horse past first. As a lead. If I'm out on my own and I need to get past something and my horse is worried, I'll get off and lead him past, get back on and we're on our way. Less stress or hassle.

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How does the horse react once you are on the ground - does he take more confidence from your being beside him rather than on top of him? I am honestly intrigued about what the horse's though processes must go through in these situations
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I have got off several times when Toffee has been napping. I didn't want to but after months of being soft, firm and sometimes angry, I got fed up of ending up in tears every time we hacked out.
With Toffee, I think it's a confidence issue as she will never nap in company or with someone on a bike etc, so getting off her for a few strides, then getting back on, even if only a few metres from where she stopped, did the trick. This seemed to help her as *touch wood* her napping has virtually stopped. I never lead her for very far, literally just a few strides.
I have heard both sides of the story with regards to dismounting, and I actually hate doing it (she did get away from me once as close to home and she turned round and legged it
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) and I think it can be dangerous, but then it far out ways getting to the point were I can lose my temper through frustration. I have been sat at the end of our track for over an hour before, and although not a problem to start with, it does wear you down.
I think in my situation it is more of a “compromise” and I don’t see it as letting her win, as at the end of the day, we got where I wanted to go, not her!!
That's my opinion anyway!
 
I don't expect my horse to react differently whether I'm on or off if its back if, nor would I ever get off the horse in certain a situation. However for my pony if there is something that is really 'scary' eg a farmyard, in my horses case, I will often get off and lead him because:

1) There is no way he could be coaxed through.
2) Smacking him would reinforce the idea that there is something to be scared of (however I would smack him if he was napping etc.)
3) If I get off and lead my horse, it is the same as allowing my horse a lead from another horse, and he will then know it is safe to follow as I've passed the danger without getting eaten by the imaginary lion.
4) By doing this my horse will see me as someone he can trust, and therefore after a couple of times of going past that place, he will walk through on his own.
 
My friend has a recently broken welsh section D & she insists on getting off at every thing remotely scary even if he isn't at all bothered, she is a much more experienced rider than me but I am really having to resist the urge to tell her that I think she is sending the wrong messages to the horse.
 
For me its nothing to do with confidence BTW. Not mine anyway. If a horse refuses to go somewhere its usually something to do with their confidence IME. I'm actually one of those people that finds it very hard to bail out. In fact I don't think I ever have and Ive been on some right nutters in my time..
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I would always stay on personally, my boys are BIG and would rather be on top than underfoot,despite the fact I probably have more confidence on the ground.

The only time Ive got off was when the horse I was riding out with kicked me and broke my leg, my horse bolted over a bridge and into an on coming car, so I didnt really have a choice LOL!.

Saying that I wish i could have stayed on, leg hurt less while sitting down!
 
See I think I feel safer on board - If im holding them and they are off trying to run off, they could peg it and I would be left behind (im small and weak and too slow to run after them
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). But if im on board, at least I can stick on, and hopefully just be calm and deal with situation.

I guess the only situation I might get off is if they are planting their feet (and I dont have a whip or person behind me to get them moving on), as I wouldn't want to give in and go home.
 
Totally understand why you have gone through the process you have Trogs, Toffee is napping rather than worrying would you say - you know, she knows she is being a bloody minded mare most of the time, which HAS to be worse than worrying!! I kind of have napping (like yours) in a different box to what I am trying to discuss, which is horses taking more confidence in their rider being on the ground (which I am finding hard to explain fully - not unusual). Mind you, you did say you think it may be a confidence issue with Toffee, but maybe it is her having a case of the "can't be bothereds" and possibly that she just prefers company (I know I have to ride more firmly alone than with a group, P is DEFFO not an alpha mare or a leader!)
 
funnily enough i had a situation like this last night out hacking. now normally if the mare refuses to go past or over something ill drive her on and we get their eventually but being stupid, last night i forgot one of the lanes was closed for road works so i tried my best to push her over this board that was covering a small hole in the road. bear in mind there were scary orange barriers all round us! but she wouldnt budge so i did get off and again it took her a while to get over it but we did. but in a normal situation i wouldnt get off as that defeats the purpose of the exercise to me!
 
Definitely stay on board.
My boy used to spook at a lot of things including water, which for an eventer was a big issue ! (still does at some but has gotten so much better over the years) and all his education was done by the rider using patience, a lot of voice reassuring, consistent repetition and rewarding pats when deserved, etc...
Must admit though, there was never any rearing or violence involved so was easier to respond calmly.
 
If Archie panics out hacking and sees something he dosent like he will just spin and b*gger off with me in the other direction. No amount of persuading will make him walk past whatever it is either. I dont like to hit him when hes genuinly scared as it makes him worse. I just get off, lead him past (he loves following me around!) and then get back on and carry on. Problem solved!

(just to add Spencer Wilton has to get off Dolendo out hacking somtimes if Dolendo is scared, so if it works for Spencer and Dolendo its good enough for me and Archie!!)
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For me its nothing to do with confidence BTW. Not mine anyway. If a horse refuses to go somewhere its usually something to do with their confidence IME. I'm actually one of those people that finds it very hard to bail out. In fact I don't think I ever have and Ive been on some right nutters in my time..
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OK, so why do you think your horse prefers you to be on the ground - this is kind of what I am trying to understand (and wording it oh so badly!) - IS it because your horse looks to you as such a leader that he needs to SEE you negotiate the scary thing before he can even contemplate it?
 
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