You've gotta give this girl some credit!!

I very much doubt anyone has the perfect seat, nor does anyone's 'one' way get them results all the time. With horses you never stop learning. The girl in the vid does loads of SJ and if you look at her other videos this isnt some amateur new to riding.

I don't get on this forum how it's okay to judge someone on a snippet of something said or seen? The girl wasn't asking to be judged on what she was doing. Her riding style may not match that of a classical rider, but what showjumper's does? Personally i wouldnt be anywhere NEAR the saddle after sitting on that mare!! The draw reins: hmmm, the jury's out, each to their own, the girl who posted who knows the rider said they were used to see if they helped for the one lesson, so we'll have to take her word for it. I don't think the draw reins were being over used or anything, I think the jockey was concentrating on staying on and getting the mare to go fowards more than anything, and she did a fair job of that.

I just don't see how anyone can claim that the mare's being 'ruined' after watching ONE video. Personally i wouldnt say the mare was doing what she was doing out of pain (although I'm not saying there is no pain, for I am not a vet/backperson) but alot of it was pure malic, you could see that clear as day. I'm sure with the pop on it the mare will have a good future career.
 
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I don't get on this forum how it's okay to judge someone on a snippet of something said or seen? The girl wasn't asking to be judged on what she was doing. Her riding style may not match that of a classical rider, but what showjumper's does? Personally i wouldnt be anywhere NEAR the saddle after sitting on that mare!! The draw reins: hmmm, the jury's out, each to their own, the girl who posted who knows the rider said they were used to see if they helped for the one lesson, so we'll have to take her word for it.



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I've since seen the rider's sister's post which sheds more light. The mare was apparently newly backed - and VERY obviously badly backed at that. And why on EARTH would you have a lesson from the person who did such a bad job on the mare??
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IF a horse that had been backed or sold from here behaved like that the first thing I would do - if giving a lesson - would be to get the rider off it and get it going myself! To persist like that was counter-productive and dangerous!

And I wasn't judging the rider by 'classical riding' standards - but by 'riding youngsters' standards - and she failed badly! Sorry - but I employ riders and I wouldn't employ her. (Nor would I employ the vast majority of young show jumping riders I see competing regularly!) The draw reins may have only been on for that lesson, but I couldn't see a snaffle rein and the mare was hauled in for the whole of the clip - she wasn't going forward because she wasn't being ALLOWED to go forward!

You say she didn't want to be judged - so why put the video on You Tube?? Was it meant to be pure 'entertainment'? If so, I sure didn't find it entertaining. Were we meant to be impressed by her prowess? I wasn't.

If a horse of mine behaved that badly under a rider I be ashamed to put it up on You Tube!
 
Is this any worse than the use of a buckstopper?
I don't think it's fair to go to town on the girls who own this horse. They obviously care about the mare, and have had her checked over physically. The draw reins were a one-off, and they have taken the time to go back to basics and start again with the mare. Since this video they have made progress with her, so maybe when they have time they will video her now, just for the benefit of the H+H forum.
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well JanetGeorge I take your point, but I would love to see you get on that mare and show us all how its done. Its very easy to sit behind a computer screen and say the riders doing x, y and z wrong, but its another thing being able to actually do a better job, and I dont think your in a position to crit someone elses riding in that case. She is a very talented rider and has had amazing results from very young baby horses and ponies. This happens to be a quirky horse that a lot of people would give up on but we want to persevere and not just pass it on.

Also I really don't think you should pass off comments on the horse unless you know its full background. We were told the horse had been broken a year and was just taking the piss, the guy we bought it off was actually riding it too like you said. Like you also said we have since found out it was very badly broken and have re-backed it right back from walking on the lunge. She is now going very well.

I'm not ashamed for putting it on youtube because to some people its a big relief to see that other horses also go terribly. Its all very well people only putting up the best bits of their horses but thats not realistic. I wanted to show that not all our horses go perfect. And whats more I'm going to follow her progress through with update videos for people to see, which I thought (rightly or wrongly) would be interesting. I will video her again this evening and post it for people to see the improvement.
 
Thank you. I don't think many of us get things right 100% of the time, but the important thing is that we are prepared to have a re-think, as your sister did re the draw reins. There's always more than one "right" way to help a horse through.
If you look at the vid, can you see how, if your sister turns the horse and gets the hind legs stepping under, the horse then can't buck or rear? That can be more effective than taking back on both reins. You release the horse forward when they relax. Just something that may or may not be of interest to her. Pulling back puts the weight back on the hind end and helps the horse engage it to buck or rear, if you get the hind legs disengaging you take the power out of that engine.
 
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well JanetGeorge I take your point, but I would love to see you get on that mare and show us all how its done. Its very easy to sit behind a computer screen and say the riders doing x, y and z wrong, but its another thing being able to actually do a better job,

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Sweetie, I've spent most of my life sorting out problem horses (and riders) and while I don't do as much of the actual riding of the difficult ones now (being fairly ancient!) my rider's safety and the success of our backing and reschooling service still relies on me being able to SEE the problems very quickly and decide the best way of getting them sorted safely!

At present, your sister is surviving on guts and and a degree of stickability, but sooner or later she's going to be BADLY hurt if she doesn't develop better technique. There are a lot of horses out there whose bucking and evasions are FAR more 'developed' than that mare - and far harder to stay on top of.

I've very pleased to hear that she's been taken back to the beginning and started again - and that she's now going well.
 
I appreciate what your saying and I don't really know why I'm bothering to defend her, she has no idea this is up and its not me riding haha. I know she isn't perfect, noone is. But all I can say is she is just your average 16 year old girl who came off ponies 6 months ago, so obviously hasn't got the best technique on staying on a bucking bronco, she has never had to sit on anything as wild/big as that before!! But given her age I think she does fairly well. As they say a good horse can make anyone look like a fantastic rider whilst a naughty horse does no rider any favours. Don't judge her by that video or the others on that youtube account coz thats me and I really AM just a rubbish amateur rider as I'm at uni most of the time. I do it for fun completely so go to town on me if you like haha.

This is the only other vid I have of her riding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYqsxi8GFMY and that is her first time riding that horse, or riding any horse properly. Each to their own of course but I'd say she does a good job.

As I say I have no reason to defend her apart from I actually do believe in her and she seems to get the best tune out of everything she sits on (might be hard to believe from that video but trust me its true!), so all I can think is she might not be the prettiest but she must be effective.

I take your point that she has a long way to go. Really wasn't looking for criticism in this video though. Was just for people to relate to/ follow Coco's progress. Hope you understand.
 
I suppose everyone will always have different opinions, and I wont be able to change yours, so I'll give up trying now haha. Thanks for the feedback though.
 
QR as am at work!!! The mare needs to be restarted, preferably with a different person...she is not crazy but clearly not happy, and you wouldnt pay me £100000000000 to ride a 4 year old rearer with its head pinned down in draw reins - and I use them alot and am definately not anti any gadget so long as it is used correctly!

It said in the side part that she is 100% fine physically and mentally, which is clearly not the case as any happy horse would not act like that. There is a difference between a fresh youngster and an unhappy horse being sent mixed signals.

The mare looks like it would benefit from lots of calming work, re doing its ground work so it moves forward freely, if it was being fed cutting it out, and not having its head wrenched in and then made to go forward, it looks like it has no idea of where to go - so is being like it is. I was willing the girl in the video to drop the contact and send the mare forward but she seemed intent on sawing her mouth and pulling her head in with the draw rein
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I am gobsmacked to be honest, a bit horrified, and feel very very sorry for the poor mare! She has a good seat but that is the worst example of riding a youngster I have seen in a while
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It is a very good example of how not to handle a difficult youngster
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QR

WOW! I think she is a really good rider! Well done her for getting back on. Wish I could ride as well as that, and I'm 25!

I am going to follow the progress of this horse and rider! emilytilly-will you post on here with reports and things for us too? It'll be cool for us to see how she's getting on.
 
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QR

WOW! I think she is a really good rider! Well done her for getting back on. Wish I could ride as well as that, and I'm 25!

I am going to follow the progress of this horse and rider! emilytilly-will you post on here with reports and things for us too? It'll be cool for us to see how she's getting on.

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Its not a case of being a good or bad rider, its a case of doing something that does/doesnt work for the horse
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happyhack - of course I will, I'll try and do it tonight
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R2R please read the thread before commenting like that. I have said she is our horse and we have since re-backed her and she is going nicely now. That was when we were first got her and instructed how to ride her from the previous owner during a lesson. We since found out she had done a lot less than they said she had, ditched the lessons and have totally re-backed her ourselves, back to walking on the lead etc. Hope this clears things up for you.
 
I actually thought that the horse looked like a nappy git, and that the girl did a tremendous job of sticking on and riding through it.

Ok, so perhaps the more knowledgeable on here would do things differently - but at 16 it's very rare to question your peers. She'll have learnt something though from the experience and who knows, it may make her an even better rider??
 
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Its not a case of being a good or bad rider, its a case of doing something that does/doesnt work for the horse
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How can you know that something doesnt work for a horse without trying it though? Its all trial and error with horses isnt it?

Sorry if I'm being dense and its not that simple.
 
Having read through the thread, I sort of get it now. Its good to hear the horse has been re-started - but it did need to be done as she clearly wasnt a happy ponio
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I think lots of things with horses come with experience - I was a very cocky 16 year old, did BSJA juniors, had all the help and instruction in the world and would have happily ridden that mare like your sister (ok maybe not happily) and bought myself a difficult youngster for my 18th birthday (becasue it was cheap, and jumped) thinking I could sort and ride it. Unfortunately 3 days in traction not being able to feel from my neck down, and ligament and tendon damage to my neck, and 3 years rehab (me) after and learning to ride again (NOT BECASUE of injury, that was 6 months, but becasue I was terrified to the point of crying when I had to put a headcollar on and had to learn to ride again, in walk, trot and canter, and jumping, and now, 9 years on, am about back to the level I was when I fell off all be it less confident and more cautious ) means I tend to think things through alot more now, and also lok for the reasons horses would behave like the way your mare was behaving - hence my comments.

The thing with horses is that they are all different, and to me, the key is treating them as such. What I saw in that video looked like a recipe for disaster, and IMHO was avoidable/preventable by riding the horse forward and some calm, consistent work and time would have prevented an unhappy horse and a potentially hurt rider. Its good to hear thats what you have done though
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I have to say I watched this vid last night and it left me feeling distinctly uneasy
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It's interesting now to see the debate it has created. Yes, I would say the rider has courage, guts, is a quiet type of rider and certainly has stickability but....this mare does not look happy. I don't think she looks nappy as at times when she moves forward she has lovely paces and is relaxed and free without resistance.
I have already said that I feel the rider has many plus points but I'm afraid she is also often out of balance, behind the movement and restricting with her hands (it may seem strange to say but this is not because of the horse's gymnastics) and actually not allowing the forward movement that the mare needs.
I'm glad you are ready to take her back to basics and wish you all the luck as she could potentially be fantastic but please find a trainer that will work on both horse and rider and bring them on together - step by step. This is not meant to sound derogatory I just hate to see things that could potentially end badly when there is actually a lot of potential for good
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It would be really interesting to hear what physical checks you have had done on the mare, as I am one of the people who can't quite believe she isn't in any discomfort to cause all this.
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At face value I say hats of to the rider, for mostly sitting very quietly, and I'm glad you decided to ditch the draw reins: looked very much like the rider being thrown about was inadvertantly pulling on them, and IMO could have been causing the next buck etc.

At the risk of providing yet more unwanted advice, has your sister considered having a simple neckstrap to grab hold of once the mare starts? Would ensure she isn't pulling on the mouth and being bounced in & out of the saddle tooooo much
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yes thats a very fair comment but I think the damage was done before we got her. All we have done is gone back to basics and done as you said, ridden her really calmy, consistently and forwards. It was not our doing that caused the horse to be like that, we have only improved her since having her.

Thanks for the comment though.
 
Okay, having read the responses, please tell me, emilytilly, how you can say[ QUOTE ]
Also I know I'm bias but I'd like to say my sister is VERY experienced. She has jumped at top level, been in England teams etc

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and then say
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But all I can say is she is just your average 16 year old girl who came off ponies 6 months ago, so obviously hasn't got the best technique on staying on a bucking bronco, she has never had to sit on anything as wild/big as that before!!

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so, she's ridden at top level, but she's also just your average 16 year old girl.
bit of a contradiction there, i think.

she's brave, and pretty sticky, good kid. the only time the mare drops her is when it really means to, after she's hit it. (btw, this is why i tend to growl or yell at mares if they're doing this, i've never had one react negatively to the voice, but i've seen quite a few do EXACTLY what this mare did when hit like that. it brings out the real "F you" response.)
that mare is NOT a bucking bronco. she's jibby, and resistant, and she does some nasty bucks, but she does not twist, plant, spin, go vertical, plunge, and do the stuff some of the really nasty ones do... thank god. most of what she does is in a straight line, and all credit to your sister for staying on, but...
she doesn't have a seat, and i'm not expecting anyone to sit there looking like Carl Hester while one mucks about, BUT she's in chair seat position, as someone else on here noticed. i've watched a lot of top sjers and they don't sit like that.
she doesn't let the mare go forward when it actually is willing to, the draw reins don't help this at all, hope you have ditched them.
a black/white approach will hopefully iron out this mare's problem, hope so, she looks very nice. but shades of grey - go forward, pull you down - will not.
btw, i hope your sister wears a body protector on this one, i would. i know teenage girls are the crash test dummies of the horseworld, but...
 
ok point taken. Alice is [****]. I really dont care any more. Its our business, our horse and its working out very nicely now so whatever you have to say about the horse 2 months ago is irrelevant now.

And yes she has ridden at top level, she has competed at HOYS numerous times on ponies including the top pony class thats 1.45 on ponies that we bought as 4/5 yr olds, hence were not ready made. However she is very new to horses and is at full time education unlike professional kids her age and hence is your average 16 year old lifestyle wise.

She's not a crash test dummy. She wont let that horse go anywhere, she is the one that is desperate to give it a chance and thank god she did coz its coming so right now.

TBH this whole debate is a matter of personal opinion as you can see from the variety of responses, so live and let live. The horse is now going well, the rider is fine and so everyone is happy and can get on with life.
 
I agree the girl has stickability but I dont think the horse is being ridden in the right way.
When it goes forward her hands are all over the place- the thing is being pulled in tight and isnt being rewarded for good behaviour. This isnt educating the horse
 
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It would be really interesting to hear what physical checks you have had done on the mare, as I am one of the people who can't quite believe she isn't in any discomfort to cause all this.
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I can - I've seen FAR worse youngsters who had nothing wrong with them except they had been badly started. That would certainly seem to be the case with this mare as she's now BEEN re-started and is going well.

Looking at the young rider (and I might have been less harsh in my criticism if I'd known earlier she was only 16 and not long off ponies) on the young jumping stallion, she's riding much better - particularly on the flat. Over a BIG fence she's well balanced and not interfering, although I'd like to see the lower leg more under control - but that will come with time.

The transition from ponies to horses is not an easy one - and judgement and technique will come with age and experience.

Be interested to know that young stallion's breeding - he is a serious jumper!! I would have LOVED to have him to jump when I was 16 (rather than the lunatic ex-hurdle racers and chasers that were all I could afford!
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haha thanks JanetGeorge. This is the stallions breeding: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/coronet+5

He is jumping really well for her so far. he's hopefully going to do the under 18's stuff this year later on in the summer, and then under 18's European team trials next year. thats the big aim anyway!! whether it happens is another story, but he's been super so far, touchwood! And he's just lovely to have around and handle etc.
 
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haha thanks JanetGeorge. This is the stallions breeding: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/coronet+5

He is jumping really well for her so far. he's hopefully going to do the under 18's stuff this year later on in the summer, and then under 18's European team trials next year. thats the big aim anyway!! whether it happens is another story, but he's been super so far, touchwood! And he's just lovely to have around and handle etc.

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Thats some serious breeding he has there
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emilytilly I think your sis is a fab rider! I have ridden many difficult horses and in my opinion she rode perfectly, sitting quietly and encouraging the mare forward. Some of the comments on this thread are completely unfair but then you get lots of people who are incapable of saying kind, encouraging things and enjoy putting others down as it makes them feel better about themselves. All credit to you for taking the horse back to basics, many people would just carry on regardless and only making things worse. She looks like a fabulous mare with lots of spirit and I wish you all the luck in the world with her.
 
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