ZARA PHILLIPS

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but the same was being said about pippa when she was zaras age with sir barnaby, granted she was never world champion with him but at 25 she was being slated and now look at her.

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Yep, still being slated!!
I'd rather have Zara ride my horse that PF though, thats for sure
 
but again its actual ability over acheivement which I am looking at at least. I've know of amazing riders who don't compete but when it comes to class and talent are miles ahead of the likes of Zara and Pippa. Yes they don't have champ titles to their names but on this discussion I don't care about champ titles I am discussing ability etc. and on those terms only the riders I know are miles above Zara etc and thats why I don't consider her world class.

I think alot of people will agree to disagree on this subject.

Don't disagree it is doing amazing things for the sport which is fantastic, eventing would never have received the same publicity if William had won the gold not Zara and no one will disagree about the positives of her win for eventing.

I think the essence is down to whether Zara will continue at the same level in the sport once Toytown is retired, currently my opinion is no, if he retired tomorrow she would slink back down into the crowd, whereas a true world class rider would produce the results to stay at the top at the particular level their next best horse is at whether that be advanced or novice. Currently Zara doesn't have one other single horse with consistent top 10 form which just illustrates further my point.

I seem to be repeating myself over and over so this will be my last post on the subject unless it will not be a repetition.
 
Agree totally

I'd also like to point out that britain now has the individual olympic (ooh cast your mind back people, no matter how much HE is slated, leslie still has that one) , european and world championship titles
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You're absolutely right Boss, on the basis of those results eventing must have a claim to be the sport Britons are most succesful at. It's a pretty incredible acheivement! There's also the fact that we won team medals at all of those 3 championships too - not to be sniffed at!
 
I cant believe peoples opinions on Zara, I think she is a fantastic rider, you could sit just anybody on him and go and get those medals, she has worked extremely hard and it has all paid off, she completely deserves this and people should not try and take that away from her. We should be glad she is British and that eventing is becoming a more known sport with non horsey people because of her.

Look at Leslie Law you never would have said he would win a gold medal that day but he did because the others faulted, it is whoever has the luck and ability on the day and Zara and Leslie have had that, like Pippa and WFP have had it before. of course Toytwons results arent completely consistent he is an eventer!!!! One minute you are winning the next you are eating dirt that is the sport!! WFP and Mary (the most experienced) had faults, so who are we to criticise Zara, I say well done to her
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Well Pippa hasn't really got a decent horse at 4* /championship level either! So its the same with her now as it would be if Zara didn't have toytown.Now she hasn't got Primmores Pride up and running she isn't on any teams.
 
Let's just wait and see how Zara does in the future. I must admit I thought her European win was a fluke and I wouldn't have put her on the team this time because of her SJ history. (Luckily for GB eventing, I am not a selector!)

But she has proved her point by now becoming World Champion. I think there are many more effective and talented riders out there but she has been the best on the day. They have an excellent partnership which is the most important thing.

However she hasn't been able to get consistent or even good results with her other horses and let's be honest, she should be able to have the pick of the crop of all cracking young horses. Let's wait and see how she does over the next few years-for me she is still to prove herself in the SJ arena. If you search the BE website for all her results, her SJ scores are pretty consistently bad- will all her horses- it's not just TT.

And ,of course, there is a tiny bit of jealousy on my part too. How could there not be! All those horses, all that support and all that money....
 
I completely agree that i know amazing world class riders that dont compete, but thats besides the point as we are saying that she is a world class rider in her own right in the competition scene and surely shes proved that. Tell me what would you like her to do to prove anymore?
Also i think its her family name which people are arguing over. WFP comes from an equally as rich very very well off family, and is just as priviledged as zara, yet people dont bring that up do they? He has the same money, but not the royal name.
 
More results? ok then how about:
6th at aston-le-walls Advanced on Red Baron
2nd at osberton intermediate on secret legacy
10th at bramham on ardfield magic star
12th at gatcombe advanced on ardfield magic star
12th at knaptoft advanced intermediate on tsunami

yes these arent outstanding results but they are encouraging results for a 24year old starting out in her eventing career, and i for one think these results suggest that next season and for seasons to come these horses will get better and better as will she. but only time will tell.
 
ultimately thought they all have to hold their nerve under pressure which zara(european and world titles), pippa(endless 3 days, grand slam and europeans) and william(endless 3days) have had to do so in thtat respect money doesnt come into it. I know this is casting our minds back a bit but look at bettina an extremely talented rider but her nerves fail her under pressure! I'm not saying that zara and pippa are the best riders, im just saying that they are very good riders who have the determination to succeed and the control of their nerves(sometimes!!!). Both of them have been lucky in that they have had very good horses but we all need luck sometimes? Anyway they are both british born and trained so we should surely all be proud of their achievements???
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But 15 top 20 placings, 5of those top 10. And like i said no its not the best compared to other older more experienced riders, but shes 24 and just starting out, surely this is encouraging? Surely we should be supporting our top riders rather than cutting them down every chance we get!! After all, are we doing what they are? no.
 
I can compete with a record like that! Maybe there's still hope for me becoming world champion! just goes to show it's the partnership is important not the individual riders. For me Zara will prove herself when she wins another biggie on another horse that she has brought on.

For a 'world class' rider I think her competition record on so many horse is actually quite poor. Lets have a 'big up' for all those one horse riders that get cracking and consistent results- be it at intro or advanced.
 
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here here, instead of picking problems with our top riders why can we not just support them?

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I second that. It's way too easy to say "it's alright for him/her because......", when the only person that actually knows what it's like to be them is them. I'm all for learning from watching the professionals and discussing things with like-minded people, but let's not allow this forum to degenerate into a huge slagging off session! I'm sure we're all better people than that.
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they are some good results but not consistent just look at Secret Legacy it may have got that 2nd but it has more recently this year been eliminated for three refusals cross country. Red Baron's other results this year have been high teens and twenties again not consistent. Ardfield magic star has had up to 65 XCJ penalties and a couple of other stops this year. consistent me thinks not!

Read Oli T's readout makes far better consistent reading (although its only to illustrate his results and ability to get top results for several horses not his style etc!)

anyway i'm going home now! But picking the best results out for each horse does not show consistently high results.
 
again i think you are misssing the point. I for one am proud of her and think she is doing wonderful things for the sport BUT i do not think she is a world class rider YET! give her time maybe but currently not! And this is the opinion i feel of most people on this thread. Course i congratulate her who in their right mind wouldn't I just again say she is there due to an exceptional partnership with one horse (i have never actually mentioned money/training etc you will note) not several consistent partnerships with several horses which true world class riders have eg Bettina Hoy (when not having a blonde moment), Andrew Hoy, Andrew Nicholson etc etc etc

and im really going home now as i don't want to miss my bus!!
 
I have read through this entire post and i think the thing that strikes me the most is: whether we think Zara is a fantastic rider or not, (as i have said MANY (!!!!) times in the last few days, I think that Zara is a fantastic rider and deserves what she has achieved, and so from me at least, this has been done to death and I think some of us will just have to agree to disagree!!!!!) The most important thing (and it has been touched on) is the potential we have, through Zara, to really put eventing on the map.


After she won, the general feeling (or a least that portrayed in the papers) of non-horsey people, was that she won because she is a royal, its a rich mans sport and therefore she bought her success and were generally belittling the achievement because it was Zara Phillips that won.

This really p*ssed me off because we as equestrians know that ANYONE who events at this level has to work VERY hard and to do what she has done (and has to work very hard on the way up). How can people possibly think she could win the gold medal at WEG on the back of being royal?? She receives no (or not a lot of!!) money through being a royal (yes her parents are well off, but so are loads of people's parents and they haven't won WEG gold) and yes she has access to amazing training but she has gained this from being good enough to be selected for team GB and therefore has no more than the other riders (all of whom she beat)....although having MP as a father won't exactly hurt!!! She has to get comercial sponsership to fund her eventing and in short we all know, royal or not, she has to work very hard.

We want our sport to be as high profile as possible and Zara is the best ambasador the sport has had in a long time and the best chance we have in the foreseeable future of really raising its profile. But we need to change the above general opinion..... we need to make the public see that this is a great and exciting sport in which we (GB) have one of the best riders in the world at this time. So surely we should all be uniting behind her so that the rest of the public can follow our lead?? Zara Phillips just might be the thing to raise the profile of eventing (get it on the tv more
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) but not if even the horsey community is divided over her? No wonder the general public are saying these things if we can't even say....wow, a member of team GB has won a Gold world medal - go Zara, you worked hard, thats fantastic!!!

As for whether her success with Toytown is a one of i suppose that only time will tell - although i don't really agree with saying she is not world class because she hasn't yet achieved something that she hasn't really tried to yet!
 
If shes not a world class rider it says a lot for the rest of Britain.
Im not specifically speaking to anyone, and knowing naff all about eventing it is purely an outsiders view.
To me, more than half of the event riders in the public eye (ie ones on TV - not a lot I admit) ride like a complte sack of spuds.
Its all very well saying there are riders that are better/could be/have less opportunities, but the fact of the matter is they havent done what she has done.
 
I think Zara HAS proved herself, but I can sort of see why some dont think so. They probably feel she has bought her way into top level eventing, but then this is the case with many riders! And I think the fact that she has so little experience compared to others like Andrew Hoy etc. also makes them pull her down a bit. Although I think that makes it even more amazing what she has achieved. Toytown IS a fabulous horse, I mean he made the XC look easy! But then why shouldn't she have a great horse?

I think some people think unless you work your ass off to get where you are then maybe you dont deserve it? At least thats the idea I can come up with?!
 
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Surely we should be supporting our top riders rather than cutting them down every chance we get!! After all, are we doing what they are? no.

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Exactly and if we can't support them then the rest of the public aren't going to either!!!!!

To the person (can't remember who) that said we are only having this discusion because of who she is, i think your right and i think in some ways who she is underpins my argument because if she was from an unknown family everyone would think, oh, this unknown girl who has brought on this horse from novice must have worked so hard, let's get behind her and support her etc etc but to me her surname does not change the story - she has still worked hard and funds it herself...in fact i don't see how being royal helps her eventing at all, so give her credit!!
 
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I have to say I can't understand this Zara-bashing at all. FFS, she's beaten the best at both European AND World level.......why isn't that good enough?
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don't know
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