Regandal
Well-Known Member
No they don’t. It’s only 9 degrees in central Scotland tonight, light showers at most. Won’t get below 12 degrees at night next week. Only old or sick horses need a rug in that.
11 degrees
- Thread starter Barton Bounty
- Start date
No they don’t. It’s only 9 degrees in central Scotland tonight, light showers at most. Won’t get below 12 degrees at night next week. Only old or sick horses need a rug in that.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
Good , wont be windy where you are then? Its very windy and chilly where I am and I am not in central Scotland ?? And when you have a colicky horse that will colic within an hour of being left in heavy rain , id rather not take the risk
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
No, 'they' (presuming you mean equines in general here?) really don't.
I very rarely butt in about how people look after their horses ... in fact, in over a decade I think it's a first ... but I feel this is an issue too important to be quiet about.
Unless an animal is very finely bred, is old, sick, not carrying enough weight or has metabolic issues, the following applies:
Horses have a much wider thermo-neutral range than we do.
They have a much smaller surface area to body weight ratio than we do.
If they have enough forage and enough shelter, their guts act as an internal combustion engine.
If unclipped, they have mechanisms such as coat-raising to trap a layer of air to keep warm.
They naturally put on weight in the autumn to see them through the lean times. It's there to be burned off by the time the next glut of food arrives in the Spring.
You should be able to easily see the ribs of a correctly weighted horse as it turns. For the many horses in the UK, you couldn't locate their ribs without an x-ray.
They find it far more difficult to lower their body temperature after a certain point, than raise it when cold. Sometimes, fatally so.
By not allowing for the natural winter-induced 'feast & famine' that a horse is designed to go through, we've see the huge rise in metabolic issues that has appeared in the last 20 years.
For the sake of our horses' welfare we need to be honest about why we over-rug them.
It's not for them. It's an anthropomorphic attempt to make US feel better about them not living the way humans do.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
At no time have I ever said I over rug my horse? ?
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
You haven't.
Maybe that's the problem?
(And that applies to a fair few on this thread.)
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
I am genuinely curious about where on earth you keep your horses that two unclipped natives could need rugging that much?
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
What problem? I am in a pocket of scotland that is near the beach gets open to all elements so I do whats right for my thoroughbred maybe if he was a fat hairy cob I wouldnt worry ?
Anyway what is it with this place, ???
Abacus
Well-Known Member
I would add to this: sometimes it’s not a matter of us anthropomorphising (I feel chilly therefore so does my horse) but one of trying to make the best decision that also suits how we keep them. I.e. I really can’t be there several times per day to get the rug situation exactly right, so I have to accept that at times they might be a touch too warm or a touch too cold. This is the hardest time of year to get that right - unclipped but too chilly at night to wear nothing, especially those that don’t have shelters.
i do think though: just because native horses might have evolved through periods of ‘feast and famine’ and indeed through cold and hot seasons, doesn’t make it comfortable for them to feel cold (or hot), just as it is uncomfortable for humans. They can survive it sure, but is it ideal or pleasant? Arguing that we should keep them in ‘natural’ conditions would also imply that we should live in caves with no central heating because we evolved that way and can survive it. I don’t want to, and don’t expect my horses do either. Natural conditions for most wild animals are bloody miserable - extremes of weather, attacks by worms and parasites, continual search for food and so on. We protect them from much of this, so why not the cold?
(this is not an argument in favour of overrugging, more one in favour of making them comfortable over ‘natural’).
i do think though: just because native horses might have evolved through periods of ‘feast and famine’ and indeed through cold and hot seasons, doesn’t make it comfortable for them to feel cold (or hot), just as it is uncomfortable for humans. They can survive it sure, but is it ideal or pleasant? Arguing that we should keep them in ‘natural’ conditions would also imply that we should live in caves with no central heating because we evolved that way and can survive it. I don’t want to, and don’t expect my horses do either. Natural conditions for most wild animals are bloody miserable - extremes of weather, attacks by worms and parasites, continual search for food and so on. We protect them from much of this, so why not the cold?
(this is not an argument in favour of overrugging, more one in favour of making them comfortable over ‘natural’).
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
How people choose to rug their horses is nobodies concern unless the horses are clearly suffering. I’ve honestly yet to see a horse suffer from over rugging however I have seen issues from under rugging ??
It’s the same every year, rugging vs not rugging vs over rugging vs under rugging.
Faran is in tonight and possibly all day tomorrow because of the weather, he’s been wearing a 0g rainsheet as It’s rather cool and changeable here the last few days and he’s living out. He’s in with a nice thick straw bed and no rug, I was going to pop his fleece sheet on but since he has cream on his back he’s naked.
It’s the same every year, rugging vs not rugging vs over rugging vs under rugging.Faran is in tonight and possibly all day tomorrow because of the weather, he’s been wearing a 0g rainsheet as It’s rather cool and changeable here the last few days and he’s living out. He’s in with a nice thick straw bed and no rug, I was going to pop his fleece sheet on but since he has cream on his back he’s naked.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
This is explained perfectly!
Much rather protect from colic than cause colic , hence why im careful with rugging ?and CC is right it is no one elses concern ?
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
BB will be in tomorrow night with no rug I expect,,his new stable is much warmer than the last one ?How people choose to rug their horses is nobodies concern unless the horses are clearly suffering. I’ve honestly yet to see a horse suffer from over rugging however I have seen issues from under rugging ??
Faran is in tonight and possibly all day tomorrow because of the weather, he’s been wearing a 0g rainsheet as It’s rather cool and changeable here the last few days and he’s living out. He’s in with a nice thick straw bed and no rug, I was going to pop his fleece sheet on but since he has cream on his back he’s naked.
Keith_Beef
Novice equestrian, accomplished equichetrian
9°C outside tonight. Another fire in the hearth.
My cousin and her husband, both retired, are coming over from England this weekend, and OH commented that we might need to put the central heating on for them.
But then added, quite rightly, that this would coincide with the start of October, so not too early.
My cousin and her husband, both retired, are coming over from England this weekend, and OH commented that we might need to put the central heating on for them.
But then added, quite rightly, that this would coincide with the start of October, so not too early.
GreyDot
Well-Known Member
How did they ever survive in the wild before we came along with rugs 
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
How did they ever survive in the wild before we came along with rugs
the modern breeds don’t resemble the original wild horse and their natural ranges and they didn’t live in the climates we Keep them in so that argument isn’t valid I’m afraid.
GreyDot
Well-Known Member
It was meant to be a bit of tongue in cheek.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Well it kinda is….horses evolved in both hot and dry and cold and wet environs. They are very well adapted for a variety of climates and conditions. And as feral horses in both the US and Australia will attest, even light boned, thin skinned types do well without human intervention. Horses, unclipped, do not “need” rugs to survive.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The horse is one of natures most efficient thermoregulars.
The concept of horses needing rugs all year round is really strange .
The concept of horses needing rugs all year round is really strange .
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Kinda isn’t. We keep horses unnaturally, we choose their terrain and grazing, we choose what type of shelter if any they have so there is no argument of feral vs pleasure kept horse.
Putting whatever weight rugs on horses is our choice and I wouldn’t question anyone on their choices of rugs for their horse unless I saw first hand that it was causing issues. I’ve more seen the need for a heavier rug to be put in horses than the other way about IME
stangs
Well-Known Member
Sure, you can't 'see' a problem with overrugging, because vit D deficiencies are invisible.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
You don’t get to decide what people can argue about I’m afraid, and your experience must be extremely limited if you’ve never come across horses sweating under rugs due to overheating, or seen heavily rugged horses left out on hot days. It is indeed your choice to put rugs on your horses: doesn’t necessarily make it the right one though.
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Ali27
Well-Known Member
I always think owners should try covering themselves with fur, then wearing the equivalent in clothes (as their horse wears in rugs) and then move around and see how that feels! I hate being hot! I would rather be cold than hot! At least you can move around to get warm. Imagine that’s the same for horses too! I’m sure horses were designed to grow a thick coat in Winter for a reason! I also don’t understand why some horses have the same rug on 24/7 when it’s colder at night! My ridden pony who has hunter clip usually has 50 or 100g on in day with 50g added at night!
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
And I also think that people should also be respectful of other peoples views . Terrible on here for that.
No problems with having a say but folk go on and on and on.
No problems with having a say but folk go on and on and on.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
I've lost count of the times Ive rung or texted owners to ask permission to take rugs off their horses. They've been left wearing wholly inappropriate rugs for the temperature. I'll slide a hand under the front of the rug and find hot sweating horses, fully rugged right up to the poll. I know people mean well, but because we feel a bit chilly, doesn't mean the horse does.
I also remember there being some scientific research telling us that horses cope much better dealing with cooler/ cold conditions, rather than dealing with overheating.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The same rug all the time makes sense because horses thermoregulate they burn energy and create heat though the digestion of fibre when you rug you reduce the food used to just in keeping warm .
I still want my horses firing up the metabolism in the cold part of the night .
That’s why we want to be keeping poor doers warm we don’t want them to use energy ( food) keeping warm we want them to lay down more fat than they use .
The country is full of bull fat horses wearing rugs it’s not February yet.
Horses who are a healthy weight need to be burning fat and laying down fat all the time they are just like us,it’s no surprise the same wrong headed thinking is mainstream for people as well .
Fat is not something tucked away to use in an emergency it’s fuel for daily use .
That’s why horses get EMS a their fat cells are so stuffed full their metabolisms malfunction.
I still want my horses firing up the metabolism in the cold part of the night .
That’s why we want to be keeping poor doers warm we don’t want them to use energy ( food) keeping warm we want them to lay down more fat than they use .
The country is full of bull fat horses wearing rugs it’s not February yet.
Horses who are a healthy weight need to be burning fat and laying down fat all the time they are just like us,it’s no surprise the same wrong headed thinking is mainstream for people as well .
Fat is not something tucked away to use in an emergency it’s fuel for daily use .
That’s why horses get EMS a their fat cells are so stuffed full their metabolisms malfunction.
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
We are quite lucky in the south east that it doesn’t often get cold enough for heavy rugs, last winter was mainly naked in the day then 100 at night. Chubby cob will be in 50grams fully clipped and was still warm! I had a tb cross who felt it much more so had liner systems but even then didn’t get cold enough for 200gs. I think the wind makes a huge difference crisp cold is lovely it’s when it’s pissing it down and blowing a Gale !
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
Even though it can be 12 degrees that wind could split you in two, its lashing sideways, has been since 5 am ?
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
nowhere too obscure (NW england) but neither grow much coat, one is still in a complete summer coat and will be all winter and the other just barely fluffs up on his neck, but neither need clipping that's how little coat they grow.
so to all intents and purposes they have the same lack of natural protection as a clipped horse, and are working hard, and will be covering mares in spring so i actually don't want them to drop an ounce of weight over winter.
i also believe in keeping muscles warm rather than having them bracing and tight and tense against the cold.
Peglo
Well-Known Member
Well I have no shame in having 200g rugs on today. We have 4 ponies (3 of which are 25+) heavy rain, 60 mph gusts and no shelter.
I was always told it’s less to do with temperature and more that the wind and rain go right through them. Up here it never gets that cold (-7 is the coldest I’ve ever seen it) but it’s usually wind and rain, I have the option of a bigger rug and I don’t want to see them shivering in all quarters so I will put a 200g on.
and totally agree with @Hallo2012 about keeping muscles warm. But most of ours are old. Other ones Italian ?
I was always told it’s less to do with temperature and more that the wind and rain go right through them. Up here it never gets that cold (-7 is the coldest I’ve ever seen it) but it’s usually wind and rain, I have the option of a bigger rug and I don’t want to see them shivering in all quarters so I will put a 200g on.
and totally agree with @Hallo2012 about keeping muscles warm. But most of ours are old. Other ones Italian ?
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
Precisely @Peglo thats what people dont get living in warmer climates , its the windchill here coming off the seal, it must be over 60 mph wind and sideways rain now , that in itself is enough lol. My boy is out with a 200 on but hope to goodness hes in the shelter lol
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Wind chill is a thing of course it is , it’s part of lots of things that go towards making the decision about what rug you use .
But it’s not the only thing .
But it’s not the only thing .
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