Elf On A Shelf
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My horse is on Death Watch as having broken down and been destoyed at Perth
All I have to say is that I'm spending a bloody fortune feeding a ghost!
2 more horses die at cheltenham today :( :(
- Thread starter Milanesa
- Start date
My horse is on Death Watch as having broken down and been destoyed at Perth
All I have to say is that I'm spending a bloody fortune feeding a ghost!Elf On A Shelf
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I'm also not entirely sure that Campbell Gillies will be overly chuffed with being named as an amatuer on "Some Weirdo Counts How Many Horses Die" List! He is a fully qualified professional that has ridden out his claim. If I find any more discrepencies I shall let you know 
Oh yes, that is how incredibly professional that site is - they can't even spell Campbell's name right - on there he is Cambell Gillies. Tut tut!
Oh yes, that is how incredibly professional that site is - they can't even spell Campbell's name right - on there he is Cambell Gillies. Tut tut!
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Alec Swan
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By your fairly accurate stats, that works out at about 161 horses dying whilst, or immediately after racing, per year. Now if we consider the many thousands of horses which are raced, annually, I'd say that the level of care and attention has been roundly vindicated, and that the modest losses, how ever regretful, are an acceptable risk.
A few years ago, a friend, on not being able to reach a vet, 'phoned me. Her horse was standing in a P&R paddock, on its own, with a bone exiting the hind leg. The accident wasn't witnessed, and to this day, there has been no reasonable explanation.
Ban the ownership of all equines, I say.
Alec.
Elf On A Shelf
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Ban the ownership of all equines, I say.
Alec.
But then what would happen when we turned all of these captive horses loose and they kicked the crap out of each other breaking bones left right and centre? Causing huge amounts of damage? We have no wild lions, tigers, hyena's etc to pick them off and eat the fallen stock and no vultures to clean up the mess!
Hang on! Just thought of the solution! Open all the doors to the enclosures in the zoo and let all the animals roam free together! Just like times of old when the strong survived at the demise of the weak!
Sorted!
Kadastorm
Well-Known Member
horse death watch is an utter load of rubbish. they only seem to add in the 'big ones' from cheltenham, aintree and a few in between and make up the rest. i know of other horses who have been PTS and not mentioned on there but then there are horses on that site who are still happily grazing in their paddocks.
Wish people would use their noggin and see that actually these racehorses probably live better than most people (certainly better than me!) and love their job. If they are tragically injured, they are treated humanely and dispatched quicker than most horses are. The racing industry helps veterinary research and which in turn, helps us with our horses and also provides jobs and careers which we are seriously lacking in this economical climate.
i feel sorry for the horses and ponies who are owned by people who either dont have a clue or dont give a damn, they suffer more than racehorses do.
these threads come up every year when the big races are on. getting boring now.
Wish people would use their noggin and see that actually these racehorses probably live better than most people (certainly better than me!) and love their job. If they are tragically injured, they are treated humanely and dispatched quicker than most horses are. The racing industry helps veterinary research and which in turn, helps us with our horses and also provides jobs and careers which we are seriously lacking in this economical climate.
i feel sorry for the horses and ponies who are owned by people who either dont have a clue or dont give a damn, they suffer more than racehorses do.
these threads come up every year when the big races are on. getting boring now.
bubbilygum
Well-Known Member
I recall Ginger McCain once saying something along the lines of the safety measures put in place at Aintree actually makes the race more dangerous, as the lower, easier fences mean the horses don't have to slow down as much, and accidents are more likely at speed, and also the speed makes the accidents more likely to be serious.
HihoGinger
Well-Known Member
A few of us have already mentioned this. With such a large field, and huge stamina task ahead of them, they need slowing down a bit. As I said before, they haven't removed the risk, they have just changed it. With the exception of Beechers, whose changes over the years, I believe, have been for the good.
shelbie
Active Member
at the risk of being slated, I really think all jump races should be banned. the the speed at which the races are run the height of the jumps, the tremendous test of stamina the large fields, too much for any animal, cant bear to watch them myself. FRIEND OF THE HORSE.
HihoGinger
Well-Known Member
That is your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to. That is what the "off" button is for.
As regards for it being "too much for any animal"..That is a very sweeping statement. Too much for my cobalob sure, but lots of very successful racehorses seem to manage fine.
What would you do with the surplus of thoroughbreds if such a ban was imposed?
Not slating, btw, genuine question.
Elf On A Shelf
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So you would ban jumps racing where horses don't start their careers until they are 3/4 but you will let flat racing carry on where horses are broken as yearlings? Horses still die flat racing, they break bones much more easily because they are galloping on firm ground faster than a jumps horse. Also a fair few never even make it to the track because they snap their pelvis's breaking from the stalls.
And as has already been said - you have a remote control for your tv - use it to change channel.
shelbie
Active Member
what a load of rubbish, raceing is a business not a hobby and as such the animals will always be the ones to suffer.you are not trying to tell me people arent in it for the money, that they really love the horses , which is why they put their lives at risk by entering them in such races as "The grand national" too many people getting rich at the expense of the horse, which sadly is why it probably will never be stopped. If these idiots want to whip something put them on the backs of their mothers.
Elf On A Shelf
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Getting rich from racehorses?!?!?
PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA*TAKES A BREATH* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh that's really tickled my funny bone that has! I like you! Your funny!
Milanesa
Well-Known Member
Ekw are you saying no one makes money out of horse racing? I would beg to differ on that. Many of the good horses win hundreds of thousands for their owners/ trainers no? Otherwise their would be no industry surely?
Kadastorm
Well-Known Member
Getting rich from racehorses?!?!?
PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA*TAKES A BREATH* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh that's really tickled my funny bone that has! I like you! Your funny!
this made me laugh, alot
you will never be rich with any horse, let alone a race horse.
HihoGinger
Well-Known Member
Miss L Toe
Well-Known Member
The industry [one of the top ten percent in the UK], is part of the leisure industry, no one would ever go in to it with a small amount of money, and make a fortune, it is the other way round,
Yes one horse per year wins the GN and £250K, [not all to the owner btw], The Late Lord Clark spent a large amount of money buying horses trying to win the GN, but failed, as most would do,
Did you see one of Paul Nichols staff won a million by betting on five horses to win, in an accumulator, this is not a regular occurrence, or PN would have people queuing up to work there.
The lad is not leaving his job, he loves it, it is part of his psyche., when it was suggested he might buy a horse, he just laughed, not a thing any sane person would do!
I used to work in racing, and loved it, but I don't enjoy going racing as an owner, or as a spectator. it is horse for courses.
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Miss L Toe
Well-Known Member
Strange to say, the people involved are in it because it is "in their blood", some like AP are driven to "win" some like PN are driven to "train winners", some like the Aga Khan are in it to breed winners.
People who want to make money can be identified by their wish to buy in to a syndicate, [maybe pay £100] and expect the trainer to tell them [and no one else] when the horse WILL win. as if.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
Miss L Toe it was Nicky Hendersons lad that won that money, Im sure PN would have loved to have had all those winners at Cheltenham.
If only it was that easy to own a winning racehorse
they cant all be winners and the owners do it for the love of the sport not to make money which is secondary.
once again we have people spouting on about something they know nothing about and spreading the rubbish to anyone willing to listen. Do the maths buy a racehorse, pay for its training,shoeing,vet,gallops etc and see how much it actually costs to get it to a racecourse.
If only it was that easy to own a winning racehorse
they cant all be winners and the owners do it for the love of the sport not to make money which is secondary.once again we have people spouting on about something they know nothing about and spreading the rubbish to anyone willing to listen. Do the maths buy a racehorse, pay for its training,shoeing,vet,gallops etc and see how much it actually costs to get it to a racecourse.
Elf On A Shelf
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Ok say you wanted a decent horse to see progress through the ranks and eventually win the Gold Cup or the Grand National you will be expecting costs of:
£50k for an untried 3-4yo with the breeding to do what you want.
£1.2-1.5k a month training x10 for roughly the length of training for a season (lets say £1350 for middle ground)
Add on shoes at £60 a pop each month min.
Gallop fees of say £20 a month
So thats £63500 to buy your horse and for one seasons training.
Now for a Bumper horse you would run it maybe 3-4x a season at £20 an entry fee. You then have travel fees and lads expenses on top of that with would be around £300 for a localish track. If your lucky enough to win your average Bumper is worth between £1.5-2k to the winner. If you then go on to win a Champion Bumper at Aintree or Cheltenham then you win about £14k. By the time you take off the trainers, jockeys and staffs percentages of the win prize you are potentially left with £9k prize money - if you won everything.
Your horse is then put out on holiday for 2months.
Back in work. 10months training - £13.5k
Hurdle racing this time. With a VERY good novice you are looking at winning about £60-70k that season. But entry fees for the bigger races are more expensive and usually the traveling distance is further with overnight stays so your travel and lads expenses go up - say £700. So yes, your probably in pocket but only by about £20k THIS SEASON after the trainers, jockeys and staff percentages of the win prize are taken off.
Season 3 - Novice Chasing! This goes along the same lines as the above! You can win a fair bit but not excessive amounts.
Season 4 - Handicap Chasing! Now your talking! This is the big money game! If you have a horse good enough you could potentially win £150k before you go to Cheltenham. Finish the season with winning one of the big Handicaps at the Festival and you bag another £70-100k.
Season 5 - This is when you start thinking about Gold Cups and Nationals! And again, you could potentialy win £100-150k before Cheltenham. If you go down the Nationals route with the Welsh then either the Scottish or Irish then you can bag another £100k and IF you win the Gold Cup thats £250k.
Season 6 - Now your talking! Bring on all the BIG races! More prize money! Higher entry fees! Less races to run in! Culminating in the Grand National! Your horse is now 10years old. It wins the Grand National and some domestic Nationals/staying Handicaps and back you £500k.
Season 7 - Same as Season 6. Your horse is now 11.
Season 8 - Your horse is now 12 and if you haven't retired it then you are off out for your swansong year and go down the same routes as the previous 2 years.
Now that is all providing that you WIN every single race and you stay sound and have no vets fees yada yada!
How many people is that realistically going to happen to?!?!?
£50k for an untried 3-4yo with the breeding to do what you want.
£1.2-1.5k a month training x10 for roughly the length of training for a season (lets say £1350 for middle ground)
Add on shoes at £60 a pop each month min.
Gallop fees of say £20 a month
So thats £63500 to buy your horse and for one seasons training.
Now for a Bumper horse you would run it maybe 3-4x a season at £20 an entry fee. You then have travel fees and lads expenses on top of that with would be around £300 for a localish track. If your lucky enough to win your average Bumper is worth between £1.5-2k to the winner. If you then go on to win a Champion Bumper at Aintree or Cheltenham then you win about £14k. By the time you take off the trainers, jockeys and staffs percentages of the win prize you are potentially left with £9k prize money - if you won everything.
Your horse is then put out on holiday for 2months.
Back in work. 10months training - £13.5k
Hurdle racing this time. With a VERY good novice you are looking at winning about £60-70k that season. But entry fees for the bigger races are more expensive and usually the traveling distance is further with overnight stays so your travel and lads expenses go up - say £700. So yes, your probably in pocket but only by about £20k THIS SEASON after the trainers, jockeys and staff percentages of the win prize are taken off.
Season 3 - Novice Chasing! This goes along the same lines as the above! You can win a fair bit but not excessive amounts.
Season 4 - Handicap Chasing! Now your talking! This is the big money game! If you have a horse good enough you could potentially win £150k before you go to Cheltenham. Finish the season with winning one of the big Handicaps at the Festival and you bag another £70-100k.
Season 5 - This is when you start thinking about Gold Cups and Nationals! And again, you could potentialy win £100-150k before Cheltenham. If you go down the Nationals route with the Welsh then either the Scottish or Irish then you can bag another £100k and IF you win the Gold Cup thats £250k.
Season 6 - Now your talking! Bring on all the BIG races! More prize money! Higher entry fees! Less races to run in! Culminating in the Grand National! Your horse is now 10years old. It wins the Grand National and some domestic Nationals/staying Handicaps and back you £500k.
Season 7 - Same as Season 6. Your horse is now 11.
Season 8 - Your horse is now 12 and if you haven't retired it then you are off out for your swansong year and go down the same routes as the previous 2 years.
Now that is all providing that you WIN every single race and you stay sound and have no vets fees yada yada!
How many people is that realistically going to happen to?!?!?
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Horses die racing, horses die in all forms of equestrian sport, horses die of neglect or ill-treatment, horses die through the well meaning ignorance of their owners. HORSES DIE.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Racing is probably the ultimate expensive hobby!! If I could persuade my other half that racing was a lucrative business we would have a string of the bloody things - unfortunately he has the tiniest modicum of intelligence that tells him it is not!
amage
Well-Known Member
Ok say you wanted a decent horse to see progress through the ranks and eventually win the Gold Cup or the Grand National you will be expecting costs of:
£50k for an untried 3-4yo with the breeding to do what you want.
£1.2-1.5k a month training x10 for roughly the length of training for a season (lets say £1350 for middle ground)
Add on shoes at £60 a pop each month min.
Gallop fees of say £20 a month
So thats £63500 to buy your horse and for one seasons training.
Now for a Bumper horse you would run it maybe 3-4x a season at £20 an entry fee. You then have travel fees and lads expenses on top of that with would be around £300 for a localish track. If your lucky enough to win your average Bumper is worth between £1.5-2k to the winner. If you then go on to win a Champion Bumper at Aintree or Cheltenham then you win about £14k. By the time you take off the trainers, jockeys and staffs percentages of the win prize you are potentially left with £9k prize money - if you won everything.
Your horse is then put out on holiday for 2months.
Back in work. 10months training - £13.5k
Hurdle racing this time. With a VERY good novice you are looking at winning about £60-70k that season. But entry fees for the bigger races are more expensive and usually the traveling distance is further with overnight stays so your travel and lads expenses go up - say £700. So yes, your probably in pocket but only by about £20k THIS SEASON after the trainers, jockeys and staff percentages of the win prize are taken off.
Season 3 - Novice Chasing! This goes along the same lines as the above! You can win a fair bit but not excessive amounts.
Season 4 - Handicap Chasing! Now your talking! This is the big money game! If you have a horse good enough you could potentially win £150k before you go to Cheltenham. Finish the season with winning one of the big Handicaps at the Festival and you bag another £70-100k.
Season 5 - This is when you start thinking about Gold Cups and Nationals! And again, you could potentialy win £100-150k before Cheltenham. If you go down the Nationals route with the Welsh then either the Scottish or Irish then you can bag another £100k and IF you win the Gold Cup thats £250k.
Season 6 - Now your talking! Bring on all the BIG races! More prize money! Higher entry fees! Less races to run in! Culminating in the Grand National! Your horse is now 10years old. It wins the Grand National and some domestic Nationals/staying Handicaps and back you £500k.
Season 7 - Same as Season 6. Your horse is now 11.
Season 8 - Your horse is now 12 and if you haven't retired it then you are off out for your swansong year and go down the same routes as the previous 2 years.
Now that is all providing that you WIN every single race and you stay sound and have no vets fees yada yada!
How many people is that realistically going to happen to?!?!?
Ah when it all works out it seems so simple....think i'll print this off and pin it up in the four yr old's stable so he can see what the syllabus is!!
bubbilygum
Well-Known Member
You're neglecting to consider the status owning a racehorse brings, and how much business gan be garnered for businessmen by using their horse ownership to take clients to race meetings etc. I know of many racehorse owners who have them for this reason; £50k to secure £1m worth of business is a worthwhile investment.
amage
Well-Known Member
Status owners in NH are rapidly on the decline!!!
Miss L Toe
Well-Known Member
I think you will find buying a horse through a business is a way of getting in to horse ownership which is used by people in an already profitable business who can spend £50K without fear of running into receivership, unfortunately Jo Bloggs Limited will not be getting new customers with £1M contracts, this is a fairy tale!
I have been on a "hospitality" visit to a racecourse, the company did not buy a horse, just booked a tent plus catering, it was all very unsatisfactory as one was expected to sip pink wine, nibble curly sandwiches and chat about PCB motherboards, which were all the rage at the time!
shelbie
Active Member
Elf On A Shelf
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The ones that are struggling to find the energy to finish their races are pulled up. Why waste energy shoving a horse home that is knackered and is never going to get a place and earn any money?
Little Squirrel
Well-Known Member
My horse was 4th last week. I won £75 YAY I'm rich!! Seriously Shelbie look at the bigger picture. Only the very best horses at the biggest of race meeting's come close to making any significant money as EKW has already explained perfectly.
I do love the horses. I showjumped untill I was 19 but since I watched the Gold Cup in 1989 and I was 7 I wanted to train racehorses. I wasn't bred into it, I wasn't around it but that was all I ever wanted to do. I have had two horses die beneath me, one broke his leg and the other dropped dead while he was WALKING. I felt awful on both occassions, I blamed myself even though neither of the times it was my fault. The horse who broke his leg got kicked also WALKING down the road. I now train myself and you cannot imagine how ill I feel watching one of mine race but they enjoy it and why take that natural instinct away from a horse. If a horse looses it's bottle or doesn't want to do it believe me nobody is going to make them win anything. I adore my horses and they have the best care that I can give them, they have the best of everything and this means that I go without. I haven't had a day off since xmas day, I haven't bought new clothes or had a haircut for god knows how long, I'm up at 5.30 every morning and if a horse so much as farts wrong I know about it. Now if people who didn't have a dream and work bloody hard to achieve it like me don't love the horses along the way then I don't know who does. Sure I dream of having a National or gold cup horse but I know that this is a 1 in a million chance. I also know that one day sooner or later I will come home from the races without one, I dread that day but I would rather they go in a humane way while they are fit and healthy rather than suffer like my old boy did last year when age got the better of him.
I also know first hand that there is a hell of alot more "persuasion" going on behind the scenes in big showjumping yards than racing yards but you obviously have your mind very firmly set.
Little Squirrel
Well-Known Member
As for the whipping you see more whip abuse at a pony show every weekend from spoilt brats taking out their non riding cappabilities on their ponies when they don't win. Just saying!