2 more horses die at cheltenham today :( :(

EKW said:
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Over2You - I assume you follow eventing for that name - I actually can not believe how short sighted you are. You refuse to listen to reason and explanation because in your own head you are clearly right, always right, nothing will change that and everyone else is wrong - ........
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O2Y, I suspect that the poster means what they say. I've no doubt, what-so-ever, that you care passionately about horses and their welfare, but you really should make the effort to understand that you aren't alone, others such as EKW, who from what I've read of their posts, speak with both passion and experience.

I don't mean to be unkind, but an ounce of experience is of more use than a pound of theory, I've just decided!! ;)

Alec.
 
So in other words Shelbie,Fantasy world and Over2you are right and every racehorse and every other horse should be destroyed, that way no deaths on the racetrack,dressage,eventing and the ordinary hack,because they wouldn't exist. It's a shame they cann't put their passion for injustice for the poor bloody horses being transported hundreds of miles going for the dinner plate and are they bigoted? I say yes they are and shame on them. I wouldn't have minded coming back as a fox onetime,but since Hunting been banned a lot round here have fox mange and they are the poor souls dying a slow and very itchy and painful death.So do I listen to these trolls. NO!!! As they don't listen to you.:(
 
Echo Bravo said:
So in other words Shelbie,Fantasy world and Over2you are right and every racehorse and every other horse should be destroyed, that way no deaths on the racetrack,dressage,eventing and the ordinary hack,because they wouldn't exist. It's a shame they cann't put their passion for injustice for the poor bloody horses being transported hundreds of miles going for the dinner plate and are they bigoted? I say yes they are and shame on them. I wouldn't have minded coming back as a fox onetime,but since Hunting been banned a lot round here have fox mange and they are the poor souls dying a slow and very itchy and painful death.So do I listen to these trolls. NO!!! As they don't listen to you.:(
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Let me get this straight. Anyone who makes anti-racing posts is a troll? Pathetic! Do I want to see every horse on the face of the planet killed? No! The fact of the matter is that racing kills far more horses than any other horse sport, puts their fragile bodies under enormous amounts of strain, and not to mention the vast over-breeding and accompanying wastage. Those are the reasons why I want racing sent to the history books. Also, what makes you think that I (or anybody else who advocates against racing) do not sign countless petitions and donate to charities like World Horse Welfare in order to stop live transport? Oh, and a good lot of the horses that are sent overseas are failed/surplus racehorses! Sold to kill buyers by owners/trainers who could not care less about their fate! As for fox hunting. I am glad it was banned. It was cruel and barbaric. There are far more humane ways to control fox populations. Not a bunch of people on horses gallivanting around the countryside, taking great delight in seeing a fox torn to shreds by their hounds. Then, smearing the blood of the poor animal over the faces of those who have just witnessed their first kill. How can this be considered sport? Will I ever listen to somebody who wants such a disgusting spectacle to be legalised again? NEVER!!
 
EKW said:
Over2You

Do you have ANY IDEA just how absolutely gutted and devistated the connections of Handsome Harry are?!?! And yes! They still are gutted! He was one of the yards pride and joys! Rose works bloody hard for each and every one of her horses and to lose one hits them all very hard indeed!

No the commentators don't mention fatal falls AT THE TIME as in the split second they are viewing the race they don't know if it is merely winded or not. I happened to be at Sedgefield that day and about 15-20mins after the race an announcement was made over the tannoy to say that unfortunately Handsome Harry had an injury and had to be put down. The snipets you see on Racing Post and AtTheRaces really don't give you the full picture and if you expect an announcement mid-race or immediately after you are sadly very much mistaken. The horse has to be pronounced dead by the vets and certified. Then taken into the main building and that's before it get's anywhere near the commentators.

If you had done all of this research into racing that you claim you have then you would have known this!

Over2You - I assume you follow eventing for that name - I actually can not believe how short sighted you are. You refuse to listen to reason and explanation because in your own head you are clearly right, always right, nothing will change that and everyone else is wrong - even when they know a damned sight more than you! So do us a fabour and put a cork in it! And trust me! That is really bloomin' polite considering what I would rather say - yup! You guessed it - stablestaff gutter talk :D
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The commentator (during the race in which Harry Handsome died) could very easily have said what a shame it was to see him in such a state. A leg flapping about like that is a death sentence and the commentator would have known that full well. When the rest of the horses came round for a second time, and Harry Handsome was still hobbling about, he could have made some kind of compassionate comment. I guess that since horses dying on track is such a common occurrence that he did not think anything of it.

I am by no means stupid, but it doesn't take a member of MENSA to figure out why so many horses die in racing. Please tell me what the 'bigger picture' is. Could there be some highly complex reasons behind all the deaths in the racing industry? Please do me a favour and do not think I am intellectually challenged for seeing the bloody obvious! Also, before you get all high and mighty with me again, invest in a dictionary or download a spell checker!
 
If you had done your research you would realise that a lot of the horses that go to slaughterhouses abroad are draught horses, not stressy drop weight over night racehorses. They are looking for weight, no weight(meat) on a racehorse.

So perhaps you would answer a question for me, are you a member of Animal Aid?.
 
Over2You said:
The commentator (during the race in which Harry Handsome died) could very easily have said what a shame it was to see him in such a state.
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So you're using one example of a commentator that didn't comment on a fallen horse as a yard stick for all commentators?

You've also clearly done your homework about what the Make a Noise campaign is about too:rolleyes:
 
Dobiegirl said:
If you had done your research you would realise that a lot of the horses that go to slaughterhouses abroad are draught horses, not stressy drop weight over night racehorses. They are looking for weight, no weight(meat) on a racehorse.

So perhaps you would answer a question for me, are you a member of Animal Aid?.
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Nope. I do support some of their work, though. :)

Now, please answer my question. Are racehorses never sold to kill buyers?
 
amymay said:
So you're using one example of a commentator that didn't comment on a fallen horse as a yard stick for all commentators?

You've also clearly done your homework about what the Make a Noise campaign is about too:rolleyes:
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Yes, I was using that as one example as it happened recently and is still available to watch on At the Races. There are numerous other examples of commentators failing to mention the tragic states of horses after sustaining horrendous injuries. Why don't you go over to Racing Post and At the Races to find that fact out for yourself!
 
amymay said:
Indeed some are sold to the abattoir. Just like every other breed of horse in this country.

Your point?
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I was responding to a poster who didn't seem to think that racehorses are ever sold for meat. Given the sheer amount of unwanted racehorses, I think it would be fair to say that more of them go to the slaughterhouse than any other sport horse or breed.
 
Over2You said:
Yes, I was using that as one example as it happened recently and is still available to watch on At the Races. There are numerous other examples of commentators failing to mention the tragic states of horses after sustaining horrendous injuries. Why don't you go over to Racing Post and At the Races to find that fact out for yourself!
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I don't need to. I watch quite a bit of racing on the TV, and like you hate to see a faller. But am always pleased when it is reported either during or after the race (sometimes both) the outcome of the fall, whether good or bad news. Thankfully it's usually better news, than worse.
 
Over2You said:
I was responding to a poster who didn't seem to think that racehorses are ever sold for meat. Given the sheer amount of unwanted racehorses, I think it would be fair to say that more of them go to the slaughterhouse than any other sport horse or breed.
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Actually the smallest fraction will be sold for meat (if at all) because they have no meat value coming straight out of racing. The likelihood of them ending up overseas destined for the meat market is also very rare. However, I would agree that one is one too many (of any breed from the UK).

It is a sad fact (I agree) that some will end up in UK abattoirs for rendering either post or prior to racing. But it is a falicy to think that every TB rejected for racing ends up with a bullet in it's head - that is simply not true. They have a market value that exceeds their meat value, and many go on to do worthwhile jobs outside of the industry.

At my previous yard we had a large amount of TB's - all ex-racers who had to some degree been rather successful on the track (I had one myself - an old steeplechaser). Apart from mine, they had been placed in foster care with their rider by the owner(s) to ensure a long and happy retirement. All turned their hand to almost any job given to them. And all were geldings - the mare's having been retained.

At one point one or two of the horses had an enormous monetary value - even at retirement. But the owners were keen to see them go on to do happy jobs, and were not looking to make any (more) money off them.

I hope that puts your mind at rest somewhat.
 
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Amyway you answered that question very well and I hope it satisfies Overtoyou.:)

On the Racing Post site if you look up results and click on all comments on running it tells you exactly how each horse ran and if one died it will say fell fatal injury or pu fatal injury so not something that is not in the public domain. Racing has nothing to hide and all the racing Ive watched including all the Cheltenham Festival meeting the commentators do say when a horse is fatally injured.
 
Considering that OverTheTop has sunk down to the levels of instructing me to get a dictionary or a spell checker I am retiring from this conversation to go and research spelling, how to form words and sentences and to invest all of my spare time and resources into doing just that! Learning, listening to people who have a clue. Oh and if I heard the commentator annouce that my horse was dead before I got to it I would string him up alive. Sometimes those of us who put our hearts and souls into making our horses the best they can be just want a few moments of peace and quiet to see things through to the end.
 
EKW take no notice of o2y its a sure sign someone is losing the argument when they bring up and highlight other peoples spelling errors. Anyway since when has spelling been part of horse care:D.
 
Over2You said:
You really must be grasping at straws to make such a ridiculous analogy. People enlist knowing they will be putting their lives on the line. Horses do not have a clue as to what could easily happen to them. It is an absolute disgrace that people still (in this day and age) get pleasure from watching a 'sport' in which animals regularly die. The majority of race goers only have one thing on their minds, and that is money! Horses suffer catastrophic injuries, yet the crowds continue to cheer, not giving a flying fig about the downed horses. It is sickening! Racing commentators hardly ever comment on the stricken horses either. I watched a replay of the race when Harry Handsome broke his leg. Not a single mention of the tragic sight he had just witnessed. Carried on commentating as if nothing had happened. The BBC’s commentators were beyond reproach when they referred to the bodies on Ornais and Dooney’s Gate as “obstacles”. When Hickstead collapsed in Verona, Peter Churchill was clearly overcome with emotion. Saying “for goodness sake, don’t show us it again” when a replay of his collapse was shown. There was also a great deal of compassion shown when G G Barock died at Hickstead. When Sir Arkay died at HOYS in ‘92, the fence at which he fell was removed immediately. It was not left, so that more horses could die while attempting to jump it. Click here for an article regarding the tragedy. No such modifications are made in racing! As for the new whip rules that were brought in months ago. My only guess is that jockeys were so worried about there being serious repercussions if they whipped their mounts over the finishing line, that they threw a tantrum about it, and the spineless BHA gave into them by relaxing the rules again. Do not tell me that racing is improving horse welfare. It clearly is not as horses are still suffering horrendous injuries and dying in their masses!
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Where I agree with you about the role of some commentators I think you are wrong to suggest that all racegoers are hard hearted money obsessed bettors who do not care about the welfare of horses. When a horse has been down at the races (I have been to) I have noticed many racegoers trying to see what was happening (not in a ghoulish way) but to see if the horse is OK. There is always a cheer when a horse gets to its feet.
 
Well I think O2U will never listen,what any one of us have to say, as we I think are the Demons she wants rid off, because we don't agree with the rubbish she spouts. must tell my next door neighbour that she's crap as she's got a racehorse that she bought as a 2 year old, small stress fracture to his off hind at 4,rested,went back into training, but never as good, so retired and he's now 23 and doing well and rules the roost, poor bugger, should he have been shot for meat.
 
Over2You said:
Do I want to see every horse on the face of the planet killed? No!
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Why not?? O2Y where and how do you draw the line in terms of banning horse sports or ownership?
Are you saying that because ‘x’ number of horses die in racing it should be BANNED? Or are you saying as a percentage of horses in training that die, as compared to other disciplines, is too high, therefore horse racing should be BANNED?
Is one death per 1000 too many or 20 per 1000 to many?
What is your cut off point for determining how many deaths is too many? And what is your justification for that figure?
It seems that you are only focussing on disciplines where horses are in high- level competition. Or have you considered the 1000’s of horses that fall outside of this sphere but end up being dumped, mistreated, neglected, ruined, over fed, under fed, past from pillar to post, relegated to the scrap heap by ignorant owners, over breeding of cobs and some natives leading to abandonment. 1000’s of horse deaths occur directly or indirectly in this manner therefore how can you only point the finger and cry for a ban to Horse Racing and not all horse ownership?
The problem with imposing any sort of ban is where and how do you draw a line as to what is and is not acceptable in terms of the number of deaths or standards of welfare. By calling for a ban to Horse Racing you are tarring all in that industry with the same brush rather than regulating and raising standards of the few who may fall short.
What are your thoughts on the huge number of horse owners who fall woefully short in terms of providing adequate welfare standards for their horses? [And you could go as far as to say that if you do not provide a home for life, with high welfare standards you are falling short] Under the same premise, that you have applied to Horse Racing does that mean that all horse owners should be tarred with the same brush and all horse ownership BANNED?
Do you think that your call for a ban on Horse Racing is fuelled by a complete dislike for the sport, or solely on welfare issues? If it is the latter, how can your view on banning be so narrow and focussed only on Horse Racing, and if it is the former…..
 
Fantasy_World said:
Pardon!!!
IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRY AND COMMENT ON WHAT I SAID THEN SAY IT BLOODY RIGHT.
RE-READ MY POSTS AND SEE WHERE I SAID ANYTHING THAT LED YOU TO ASSUME THE ABOVE
A-R-S-E-H-O-L-E!!!!!
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Ah yes. Shouty rants and insults will get you and whatever your 'cause' is taken so seriously.
 
DAB,what a great reply and such a sensible one,but people like O2U, have their own agenda and sensible people don't come into it. To be honest I really think they are Anti-Horse:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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