eahotson
Well-Known Member
A lot of it is so normalised no one notices.The rest cunningly hidden.
20% of people don't like horse sport...
- Thread starter stormox
- Start date
Leandy
Well-Known Member
You don't have a good view of human nature and conduct do you? Of course not everyone is above board but I prefer to take a more positive view. I'm not prepared to argue for the eradication of activities with many benefits which bring much enjoyment to many humans and horses because of the conduct of a small minority. Why impact the many for the sake of the few?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I'm sorry but I think this is a ridiculous argument to use. But if you must, it doesn't compare because
most humans have the ability to take themselves out of a life that they don't find worthwhile.
Leandy
Well-Known Member
Well I would disagree there. I don't see that in the great scheme of things non-existence is the optimal state 
. Anyway, I don't want to enter into a long and unwinnable debate! Happy to agree to disagree on a number of things. Good evening all.
. Anyway, I don't want to enter into a long and unwinnable debate! Happy to agree to disagree on a number of things. Good evening all.teapot
Well-Known Member
This is their latest road safety campaign!
Elf On A Shelf
...
In your first post you said
Which was entirely wrong. If you had bothered to look into the facts leading up to the horse meat problem you would find its a world away from racing.
In your 2nd post you said that "some were even still wearing racing plates". Again. No proof that these horses were either racehorses or even in the Findus Crispy Pancakes! Racing is a scapegoat for a lot of people. Let's just blame racing because it is such a visable sport!
The BBC's documentary on "The Dark Side Of Racing" wasn't actually even about racing. It was about the poor practices in an abattoir. Animal Aid themselves even spoke out and said they were going after the abattoir when they got that footage, the fact that there were a few racehorses there was an absolute bonus for them.
Yes racing has a lot to answer for but so do many other equine sports, they just aren't in the public eye as much as so don't get hit by as much criticism or have people pointing the finger just because.
Juniper Jack
Well-Known Member
Hopefully the Internet is their outlet so that they DON'T turn on their horses.
Juniper Jack
Well-Known Member
Volume mix is horrible. I can't hear what she's saying over the music and the hoofbeats.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
You are quite right, I do have a low opinion of a lot of the upper levels of the horse world because of the things I have personally witnessed.I don't think that a glossy picture of some gurning celebrity rider talking about his/hers "Best Friend" when you know the truth behind the story quite cuts it.I saw children being knocked about because of mistakes being made in the ring to
ne lovely man nearly knocked his 12 year old daughter off her feet because he hit her so hard across the face.Another "I have been to the olympics" showjumper, in front of the judges and the audience upended his stick, lent across and struck his horse very hard.It must have left a bruise.Nothing was said. Horses can't cry out.If I had been in the ring and struck my little dog like that she would have screamed and half the audience would have tried to kill me.Still, so long as you are enjoying yourself.
canteron
Well-Known Member
Which was entirely wrong. If you had bothered to look into the facts leading up to the horse meat problem you would find its a world away from racing.
In your 2nd post you said that "some were even still wearing racing plates". Again. No proof that these horses were either racehorses or even in the Findus Crispy Pancakes! Racing is a scapegoat for a lot of people. Let's just blame racing because it is such a visable sport!
The BBC's documentary on "The Dark Side Of Racing" wasn't actually even about racing. It was about the poor practices in an abattoir. Animal Aid themselves even spoke out and said they were going after the abattoir when they got that footage, the fact that there were a few racehorses there was an absolute bonus for them.
Yes racing has a lot to answer for but so do many other equine sports, they just aren't in the public eye as much as so don't get hit by as much criticism or have people pointing the finger just because.[/QUOTE]
Oh, if nothing bad was going on why did they need to change the rules …
stormox
Well-Known Member
I think that makes it sound like riders themselves think they should'nt ride on the roads - when they have every right to.
lannerch
Well-Known Member
I loved the comment to the Facebook post that’s because 20% of the population are muppets
AntiPuck
Well-Known Member
I agree, but also in answer to Leandy - the fact that beings who already exist prefer to keep on existing is irrelevant when we talk about beings which don't exist (The idea of at some point no longer existing, to at least a sentient being, is itself a form of suffering to face up to). Before you existed there was no you to miss out on the "joys" of existing, so nothing was lost, no suffering was being endured. To end a life already in progress causes suffering, but never creating one in the first place doesn't (for the being who never gets created).
This is getting a bit weird and far from your original post now, though.
Elf On A Shelf
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Oh, if nothing bad was going on why did they need to change the rules …
View attachment 94690[/QUOTE]
Public perception. The majority of racehorses have that page in their passports signed as soon as the passport gets back from Wetherby's as youngsters. Racing does a hell of a lot it doesn't shout about because it is the norm. Then when something goes wrong a press release is put out to appease the public.
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
Public perception. The majority of racehorses have that page in their passports signed as soon as the passport gets back from Wetherby's as youngsters. Racing does a hell of a lot it doesn't shout about because it is the norm. Then when something goes wrong a press release is put out to appease the public.[/QUOTE]
Racing does do a lot - the BHA are fairly switched on to public perception issues - much more so than the 'horsemen' group which tends to carry on like they've not heard that there's a world beyond racing who's views are relevant.
One thing that racing has completely and utterly failed to do in this country is provide genuine traceability for all ex-racehorses. RoR doesn't do this. BHA doesn't do this. There's no clear explanation of where all the horses have gone and what they are doing. We are still in a situation where horse after horse appears, looking a bit underfed and owned by someone who isn't well prepared to take one on. Nevermind all of those that just 'vanish'...
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I'd say showjumping is one of the worst. It all looks so unpalatable, horses with more metal work on their heads than face, those hoods which seem to be the in thing now, then a fly veil, probably ear plugs, those blinkers as well. Then leaving squares unclipped so their spurs don't mark them.
Not to mention the shows of temper. I know someone who I don't know if all lies, said how a very well known and adored Olympic sj rider's yard is known as torturous. May all be speculation but...
Now i know these horses can't all go in a snaffle and are sensitive but are they actually happy and enjoying their job if they require all that god awful clobber on their heads?!
Not to mention the shows of temper. I know someone who I don't know if all lies, said how a very well known and adored Olympic sj rider's yard is known as torturous. May all be speculation but...
Now i know these horses can't all go in a snaffle and are sensitive but are they actually happy and enjoying their job if they require all that god awful clobber on their heads?!
sakura
Well-Known Member
because people can consent to participating in boxing or cricket, horses cannot. And when they do object, they are often forced into it anyway via the use of stronger equipment or harsher riding.
Chianti
Well-Known Member
I don't see how people can dismiss this and argue that banning horse sports could never happen. If you'd asked a cross section of society a hundred years ago if they supported fox hunting then I suspect that the majority would have. If you'd told those involved in hunting that it would be effectively banned they probably wouldn't have believed you. Public opinion can shift very fast.
sakura
Well-Known Member
Ultimately, the future of horse sports (particularly as far as the Olympics go) is going to come down to the non-horsey public's perception of them - whether the horse community likes it or not. It's not necessarily how high a percentage of people who genuinely think it's cruel etc is, but more how that percentage is (or isn't) growing. It won't do the horse community any good to disregard entirely what that group of people are saying. I'm a member of the horse community and I have concerns about horse sports too.
Elf On A Shelf
...
Racing does do a lot - the BHA are fairly switched on to public perception issues - much more so than the 'horsemen' group which tends to carry on like they've not heard that there's a world beyond racing who's views are relevant.
One thing that racing has completely and utterly failed to do in this country is provide genuine traceability for all ex-racehorses. RoR doesn't do this. BHA doesn't do this. There's no clear explanation of where all the horses have gone and what they are doing. We are still in a situation where horse after horse appears, looking a bit underfed and owned by someone who isn't well prepared to take one on. Nevermind all of those that just 'vanish'...[/QUOTE]
Do the BSJA, BE, BD, Pony Club, Riding Club, Showing Societies, Breed societies even have a comprehensive list of exactly where every single horse or pony ever registered with them is for its entire life? Nope. Its not possible to keep track of every single one. The RoR has thousands of horses registered with them. It is up to the new owners to keep them updated.
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
Do the BSJA, BE, BD, Pony Club, Riding Club, Showing Societies, Breed societies even have a comprehensive list of exactly where every single horse or pony ever registered with them is for its entire life? Nope. Its not possible to keep track of every single one. The RoR has thousands of horses registered with them. It is up to the new owners to keep them updated.[/QUOTE]
No, but those organisations don't even have a track record of who is taking part because of the mess with the unaffiliated market. Racing could move to 100% traceability, if it could be bothered. Sure, you can't make people tell you what happens beyond their initial homes, but as it stands, racing trainers do not make it clear what happens to the horses that leave their care. As licensed individuals, they could be compelled to.
windswoo
Well-Known Member
And this is why breakdancing is in the next Olympics
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
I think the worst thing 'we' can do is just dismiss a % of society that disagrees with horse sport. That marks the start of the end.
I know enough people within the sport that have concerns and I'm one of them. I'm tired of seeing horses in pain, shouting out loud that something hurts and being told they're being mareish, lazy, trying to get out of work, testing you etc. etc.
Let's be honest they're not designed to carry us. I think we need to do better and maybe that starts with listening to the other side.
sakura
Well-Known Member
no animals are involved and its popularity is growing, so yes, that would be why. That is how it works.
tristar
Well-Known Member
i see an animal that loves to be ridden and be with humans
i also see exploitation, pushing to the very limits, and totally agree about horses who need help and understanding with their physical problems
but for me the road to understanding what is going on is the way forwards, so horses can be our happy companions, ridden or otherwise, a place between exploitation and non ridden
what riding a horse can do for a persons mood is amazing, almost a drug, i feel we were given horses for reason, they are part of our lives, its up to us to find a place for them and ways of training , caring and competing in which the focus is bringing out the best qualities of ridden horses without getting them too fat, wrecking their legs, loading them with gear, ignoring symptoms etc
having basic classes for equitation where the emphasis is for example with young horses moving away from the leg, bending correctly, halting properly, exhibiting willingness, attitude, carriage of the head in a natural for the individual form, and dare i say it showing pleasure in their work, doing the basics well is the hardest part of traning, or lack of it is where most problems start
most of the people i know who express dislike around horse sports are not involved in horse sport
the ingrained horse sport and showing culture could be hard nut to crack, but most things worth doing are not easy
planete
Well-Known Member
I have worked with horses and have had my own horses most of my life. The horses I worked with: hunters: often abused by rough, too heavy, plain ignorant riders; show jumpers: never turned out, often abused in training; eventers: well managed and ridden, regular turnout, but the risks taken by their fairly young rider were hair raising at times, she unfortunately suffered life changing injuries in a fall after I left; dressage horses: happy, friendly, well ridden, turned out every day; National Hunt horses: wound up, mostly aggressive in the stable, most felt like lost souls, not turned out. That is what I experienced in the stables I was at. They are obviously not all like that but, no, I do not like horse sports and the mindset of many of the people involved and I do not watch them or ever wished to take part. The educated, caring riders and trainers are amazing but the rest is enough to make you wonder about the human urge to compete and its ethics.
sakura
Well-Known Member
But they will be the people who ultimately decide equestrianism's future in the Olympics. As current or former horse riders, we all know far more about horses than the public - but that doesn't matter to the IOC. Just look at figure skating and ask the ISU how they're actively (negatively) changing the sport to make it more appealing for the public to watch - and that's a sport with, yes, questionable ethics but no animals involved.
The public (and most of us, but that is not my point) don't want to see horses falling, being hit/kicked and hauled around. Maybe we know what the use and potential benefits of spurs and whips are but the public don't - and they don't care. They just don't want to see it.
Look how disastrous the pentathlon at Tokyo was for all horse sports. That is why I keep saying on all of these posts that horse sports need to pay attention to what that percentage is saying and stop dismissing them as people who have no idea.
It really doesn't matter if horse people can continue to justify these things to themselves - and that's without getting into equestrianism's reputation as being a classist, white led sport.
Chianti
Well-Known Member
Watch | Facebook
I can't make the link better to show more on here but this says it all. Rider just been given a three month ban. Any feeling human being - whether rider or not- will watch this and wonder why it's allowed to happen. Epona TV is great for flagging these 'events' up.
I can't make the link better to show more on here but this says it all. Rider just been given a three month ban. Any feeling human being - whether rider or not- will watch this and wonder why it's allowed to happen. Epona TV is great for flagging these 'events' up.
TPO
🤠🏴
Ugg
stormox
Well-Known Member
I have always thought the people who want to win in any sport have to be fairly non sympathetic with other competitors, and in horse sport with their horses. Winning has to come first - and if you hit or kick your horse to jump higher, run faster, and WIN you are a hero, you got the job done. Empathy and pushing your horse beyond its limits do not go together.