3rd body found...

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I still think that someone else killed them, grudge or something.....surely he would've just let the animals free, they could start a new life.....I can't understand any reason he would have to kill them..... or TBH his wife and child.....most business men who kill themselves in this kind of situation do it alone to 'help' their families.....if he really did do it all himself he must've had severe mental problems and surely someone would've noticed......

ETA BBC says that the body of an 'unidentified man' has also been found......hitman??

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A hitman would have no reason to kill the animals, or burn the family vehicles.
In fact, a hitman would want to get in, get the job done, and get out, in the minimum of time, so as to avoid detection.

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No a hitman would have just got the job done, as you say. However, someone with a serious grudge, or if they'd REALLY peed someone off may have wanted to cause as much distress as possible before the deaths. Horses, dogs, everything the family treasures... it may have been made to look like the father did it himself. I just cannot concieve that a father would do that just because of debt. A guy of his wealth must have had some degree of intelligence and control, it just doesnt add up.
 
We are all very shocked in the local area and our thoughts are with thoes that have suffered.

There was no need for the horses and dogs and gerbals to have suffered and I hope in time the truth will be known and who ever is brought to justice.

Time will tell
 
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QR

Another person who has been horribly affected by this tragedy of strangers.
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I just think that if he did it he must have been terribly mentally unwell to put it mildly. What on earth drives someone to destroy his life and those of the people and animals who shared it is a mystery to me, but I cannot comprehend that somebody of sound mind could do that.

I do pity the man. I pity the wife and daughter and animals too, but I don't see any point in being angry at him. People who commit suicide are rarely/never in a rational frame of mind. Massive shame that nobody spotted and got him help for whatever turmoil that was going on inside him.
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My thoughts exactly.
I know that it is true that the further you climb up, the further you have to fall. Maybe he just couldn't face the shame his bankruptcy would cause but why take your family and animals too? A truly tragic case.
 
QR. I find it interesting that the media, and a number of people on here, keep referring to this man as a millionaire and to a wealthy family. They were neither. The guy had bugger all, the house belonged to the building society and he was a bankrupt.

There is more to this than meets the eye Im sure and IMO this is not just a straighforward financial desperation thing.
 
I have read police are working on the theory Kirstie was killed in her bedroom.
They have worked out (God knows how) that the two previous bodies were in the sitting room. Kirstie's bedroom was on the very top floor. If her mother was murdered in the sitting room and she perhaps had her Ipod on or similar she may not have heard the shot especially given the size of the house.
She suddenly went offline at 1am this may have been the time she was killed.
therefore the time line gave whoever (possibly the father) plenty of time to kill the animals and set the fires.
Supposition but feasible
 
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I do pity the man. I pity the wife and daughter and animals too, but I don't see any point in being angry at him. People who commit suicide are rarely/never in a rational frame of mind. Massive shame that nobody spotted and got him help for whatever turmoil that was going on inside him.
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I see a point getting angry. I'm not angry at any particular person as I don't feel I know what happened. There are too many possibilities. But whichever b'stard is responsible for murdering a fifteen year old girl in her own home and slaughtering healthy animals deserves to rot in hell. Whether they're sick or just evil they chose this disgusting act and I hope they died or die at least as horribly.
 
Something I've just thought, and it may have been covered in the media but....if he used a shotgun to shoot horses and dogs, surely someone heard it....? It would've been very quiet at that time of the morning and there must've been at least 5 shots....I suppose none of that matters now
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If it was a third party who is at large out there that is truly frightening
If the truth lies close to home its tragic - if he couldn't face his money worries he should at least have let his daughter have her life
I do feel that this is one where no third party was involved...
 
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QR. I find it interesting that the media, and a number of people on here, keep referring to this man as a millionaire and to a wealthy family. They were neither. The guy had bugger all, the house belonged to the building society and he was a bankrupt.

There is more to this than meets the eye Im sure and IMO this is not just a straighforward financial desperation thing.

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the building society don't just give out large houses to any tom dick or harry. You have to have money in the first place.

YES he went bankrupt, but he was also the owner of a buisness which allowed him to purchase all of his 'possessions'. You either get money via working hard, inheritance or dodgy dealings.

I would suspect the latter. You have to be pretty intelligent and rational to build up a buisness with enough collateral to allow the building society to 'give' you a house of that size. AND to do dealings so dodgy...
 
The dodgy dealing theories are stemming from the hitman theories imho.

I have not heard a single thing which suggests that his business was anything other than above board and legal. The companies he owed money to, are also large, legitimate companies.
He had a great idea, got it manufactured, and made a huge amount of money out of it.

His 'downfall' appears to have stemmed from him living the dream, and spending more than he was earning. The only dodgy aspect about him was when his business was failing, he started syphoning off assets and putting them in the name of a new company. He also made out that there were 'loans' for huge amounts, paid to company directors.
That's where his business morality was called into question by a judge.
However, none of that is the stuff of gangland drama or hitmen.

He made money in the past, and he squandered it, and at the time of the fire, he was penniless, and didn't have control over any of his assets.

Picking all the news stories about him apart, one thing seems to remain consistant, and that is that he played the millionaire lifestyle to the hilt, and was in complete denial and would not accept his true financial status. He also went to great lengths to ensure nobody else knew that the end of the dream was closing in.

His refusal to accept or acknowledge how bad things had become, is one of the main reasons why I am convinced that he did it.
 
Spaniel is right thought - although the Title Deeds were still in his name, the liquidators had the rights over the property, i.e. any monies generated from a sale would not have gone to the family.

We KNOW he is guilty of dodgy dealings, he owed a company £800k for taking his business elsewhere when he was contracted to use them!

For those that have sympathy for him, you are better people than me. Seeing that one of my oldest friends has been murdered in the same week in similar circumstances I am afraid I have nothing but anger and totally spiteful feelings for any person that can kill in such cold blood.
 
This is freaking me out a bit. About 17 years ago I worked for a company in a similar line of business & similar financial circumstances. MD was completely delusional & kept up his lavish life style even after the company was wound up. It got to the stage where on a Thursday night I would take the cash tin key home with me or the cash to pay the wages would not be there in the morning if one of his creditors sent the heavies round. It was a period of my life I don't like to be reminded of. Was on first name terms with all the local bailiffs & the police got used to turning up as I reported criminal damage by heavies (was one excuse used not to pay the bill!). Thank god it never got to the stage this got to, but there were some VERY nasty threats made & often there were only a couple of us ladies in the office to hear them. I was really afraid for my own safety on more than one occasion. The thing is I can imagine the guy I worked for totally flipping & doing something dreadful when reality finally hit home.
Also, my husband was very depressed for a while. He would put on a show & look perfectly ok when anyone was around, but as soon as it was just us he would lose his temper, nothing violent, just venting his paranoia about imagined slights & being hell to live with. It's easy for outsiders not to know what is really going on inside a family.
 
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Something I've just thought, and it may have been covered in the media but....if he used a shotgun to shoot horses and dogs, surely someone heard it....? It would've been very quiet at that time of the morning and there must've been at least 5 shots....I suppose none of that matters now
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"he" used a .22 calibre rifle NOT a shotgun...so it could have had a silencer fitted.
 
Its never easy to understand what goes through a persons mind. And yes this man did have money,daughter went to one f the best girls schools,and look at the property !
I have been in severe debt and you stick your head deeper and deeper into the sand wishing it will all go away instead of facing the music. IF he did the horrible thing i think that his reasoning was "Well if i cant have it no one will" and that includes cars,dogs etc etc.
And maybe he did no want his wife and daughter to feel the humiliation ?? Its no excuse and
I am not saying that i feel sorry for him,IF it was him,we dont know if it was.
My mother went through a very very very bad depression 15 years ago and she was in a very bad place.
Not everyone lives happy families, behind the 4 walls there is always a different story.
 
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Am I mistaken in thinking that one of the bodies found is an 'unidentified man' then? As reported on BBC website.....

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As far as I understood it, they have identified the wife's body, but that there is indeed an "unidentified male" body, which they haven't found out or told us yet if it is or isn't the husband or another person. I'm not entirely sure if they have identified the 3rd body as being the teenage daughter or not either.
 
I am another one that is absolutely glued to this story. I just want to know what on earth happened in the house.

Im not defending him, but people who are in debt, as mentioned before, do tend to bury their heads in the sand as they think it will all go away, but unfortunately is doesn't. Becoming so distressed and unhappy with debt often makes people do silly things, it just sounds like an act of desperation.

Im just waiting with baited breath to hear the outcome of all this so I can stop thinking about it. I actually makes me sick to think anyone could possibly kill a person, let alone defenceless animals, its disgusting in my opinion. Lets just hope the truth comes out soon.

Thinking of their families and friends at this awful time.
 
I'm glad I am not alone in feeling disgust and utter contempt for anyone who takes a life needlessly and even more so if that action is driven by personal failure. You have no right to commit murder and he had absolutely no excuses for doing any of what he did. He is completely responsible for making the decisions which led to this impasse as far as he was concerned. Typical male ego at work here.
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I think that fairly covers it, without actually accusing him of being the killer and torcher.
 
Anyone who commits that level of destruction for no gain and commits suicide is not in his right mind. Hating him or feeling sorry for him or anything else does no good now.

We all know how depressing it is to wake up every day to news reports about the down turn of the economy, how our houses are worth less than we paid for them, how there is little or no chance of improvement in the immediate future, in fact quite the opposite . . . imagine being in that sort of state and hearing all that? Most of us are looking at tightening our belts, imagine looking at losing everything, including the respect of the people you value?

Of course I am not defending him. But it seems obvious he was mentally ill and in WAY over his head. Perhaps he thought "if I can't have it no one can", perhaps be thought "I don't want my family and animals to suffer disgrace and poverty and losing the things they have". We'll never know. Well, I HOPE none of us ever know.

A good friend of mine killed himself because his truck was going to be repossessed in part because of a tax debt. Of course it wasn't the truck that did it, that was the trigger. But he was just as dead.

It's all very well to say people *shouldn't* feel so desperate about money/debt/taxes but then we live in a society that puts such incredible emphasis on getting ahead, having the most toys, and being the best provider. Combined with a fragile personality, bad judgement and circumstance it's easy to see the slippery slope. It's impossible to see how this leads to murder but then that's because none of us is in that situation.

As far as it being "male", yes there is probably an aspect of that. (In which case, how grim to be male in our society.) But then women have been known to kill their children to save them from all sorts of things, some real, some imagined. Again, those of us that don't think like that can't possibly understand someone who does. Whatever their gender.

Poor wife and daughter. Poor horses and dogs. Poor friends and family members. It's all just awful.
 
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For those that have sympathy for him, you are better people than me. Seeing that one of my oldest friends has been murdered in the same week in similar circumstances I am afraid I have nothing but anger and totally spiteful feelings for any person that can kill in such cold blood.


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How awful, I had no idea.
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I understand this man was heard to say 'if I can't have it (his possessions), no-one can'. Killing yourself is one thing, but a 15-year-old girl? Your own daughter? He valued his own pride and vanity more. He was a morally bankrupt businessman who thought nothing of owing others thousands, and possibly ruining their businesses. For that alone he is a loathesome character, and if he has indeed committed this atrocity, I feel nothing but hatred for him.
 
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For those that have sympathy for him, you are better people than me. Seeing that one of my oldest friends has been murdered in the same week in similar circumstances I am afraid I have nothing but anger and totally spiteful feelings for any person that can kill in such cold blood.


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How awful, I had no idea.
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I understand this man was heard to say 'if I can't have it (his possessions), no-one can'. Killing yourself is one thing, but a 15-year-old girl? Your own daughter? He valued his own pride and vanity more. He was a morally bankrupt businessman who thought nothing of owing others thousands, and possibly ruining their businesses. For that alone he is a loathesome character, and if he has indeed committed this atrocity, I feel nothing but hatred for him.

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Sorry to quote such a huge chunk of text but I totally agree with you both.
 
I'm really sorry but I find it appalling that anyone can have hatred for a man you have never met and who has not directly affected your life. If you abhorred his actions - assuming they are his actions - then I would agree with you, they are abhorrent actions but hate is such a strong word.
 
I feel nothing but utmost sympathy to him if he did do it. How horrendous to be pushed to such a state you end up killing everything you love and have worked to acheive. Also there were talks of threats of kidnap to his daughter, if he had killied himself, he would have left all the debts behind for his family to deal with and I very much doubt any of us know how unpleasant the people he was dealing with were. Would you want to leave your loved ones to deal with people like that?
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I think it is very veyr sad that things ended how they did. RIP to all involved
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A good friend of mine killed himself because his truck was going to be repossessed in part because of a tax debt. Of course it wasn't the truck that did it, that was the trigger. But he was just as dead.


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Suicide; whole different thing to murder.
Someone murdered a teenage girl. They deserve nothing but hatred. They've possibly even escaped punishment by killing themself.

Incidentally Brighteyes, while in the most part I agree with you about the gender aspect, when I did jury service I got a murder trial for a female arsonist who killed the family she was staying with.
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