A challenging horse....Nearly killed me! Second opinion?

[MrMuleMe]

At the moment I'm sharing a slightly interesting horse, and wonder what peoples thoughts are.

Big, grey 17.2 ID. 12 Y/O. He's a very elegant horse, and I've been with him for a bit over a month now. I'm probably jumping the gun a bit, but I don't feel as if I'm getting that connection with him. In short, he's a bit of a thug! Personality wise, at least. I won't speculate on his past, but he knows he's a big, strong and massive horse sadly and can use it to get his own way. Difficult to lead up from the field, takes two steps and plants his feet. Takes two more steps and plants his feet. I'm not the type who would, but you could scream, shout and beat him black and blue with a crop, and he'd just shrug it off and put his head down to the grass. I do get him to where I want to, but it takes patience and persistence especially as I'm a minimal force necessary person which has worked well on mares I've trained.

Moving on, today I ventured out with him today for a very short solo hack, as it's our first. Wanted 15 minutes maximum. He's been going well in the school lately, we're both bored in there and I wanted to move on to something more interesting. He was fantastic going out, a little distracted at times but I worked hard to keep him focused. Turned him back home, and this is where the fun began. He started calling to horses in the next field, flipped his head about, bolted and before I knew it I was on a full out gallop on and unstoppable 750 KG horse. I literally put everything into the reins, gave up and accepted all I could do was hold on for dear life.

At the end of the deep, deep muddy track he bolted down, he then took a right angle bend at great speed (no idea how we did it, he nearly went into the hedge ditch) and continued to speed up down an extremely muddy and steep down hill driveway. It was awful. I was struggling to resist panicking and throw myself off his 6ft high back. But based on previous, challenging horses I've worked I know they usually run out of steam, eventually. Thankfully, at the bottom of the track back at the yard he slowed down enough for me to steer him towards a fence which brought him to a stop. Seizing my opportunity, got off his back to so, so fast. The saving grace is that all he wanted to get home and see the other horses. He didn't spook, or specifically try and get me off (that's the worst)

Having experienced all that, I still find myself wanting to persevere. I've now seen him at his worst, and survived it. And he knows I did, too! But how should I proceed with him? I want to be able to hack out solo. I want have a rewarding connection with him. But I feel I'm the only one who's brave enough to challenge him, I think other people might be terrified of him which he recognizes. If that's truly the case, maybe this is lost cause.

In a perfect world, I'd be working him 5 days a week. I'm only managing 2 at the moment and I suspect that's where my problem lies. He just might not be getting enough engagement, which an energetic and powerful horse needs.

TLDR

Horse bombed off out of control, not sure if or how to bring him round to progress with him.

 

[paddi22]

I can never get a tune out of horses like this at all, they require a certain kind of person to get the best out of them and i'm too soft!. These types work best with someone they respect and if they don't have that with you then you get no good out of them. I'd work on the groundwork first though, you need to up your energy level to get the reaction from him that you want. I wouldn't be using patience if a horse stuck its head down to eat grass when it knew it shouldn't, i'd have used whatever force needed to make sure it knew not to do it again. If a horse thinks it can walk over you, it will. And until the manners and respect for you are instilled on the ground then you won't crack the ridden issues. The planting every two steps things needs to be remedied and needs a good solid reprimand. Softness doesn't work with some horses, some you need to shout at at the start and then you can lower your level once they start listening.

You could be right about the engagement and work needed. Any of these style horses i've seen have thrived with someone keeping them in exciting and challenging work like hunting, fun rides or just gungho stuff like gallopy hacks.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Grass diving infuriates me. My pony did it. A good waggle of the rope & "Get on!" helped. He hasn't dived in months.

If he's planting when leading, carry a stick and use it. A tap behind as you ask for forward.

 

[GirlFriday]

What happens in the rest of his life? Do you know he is good to hack alone for his owner? It sounds like you have a couple of issues
1) horse isn't keen to come in with you (what is his routine? Is he on limited winter turnout and having to give up grass time to be ridden (boringly in the school) with you every time he sees you? etc, etc)
2) rubbish first hack. Have you hacked with company before? Where you a little tense in the new circs? Do you have anyone who could go out with you next time?

Personally I'd try not to focus too much on his size. All horses are bigger than us and many people with a Shetland will be able to tell you about it doing exactly what this horse does. You're almost certainly much more concious of the size than he is

Have you chatted to his owner/other regular riders about any of this? Is there an instructor you could use with owner's permission?

 

[Pinkvboots]

to be fair you have had him a month his ridden 2 days a week his in a new environment, I think it was a bit ambitious to take him hacking on your own for the first time, I would lead him in a bridle if his that rude on the ground and stick with whatever you are comfortable with at the moment if that's just school work then so be it, I would try to get him ridden a bit more 2 days a week is not much and when his doing a bit more regular work find someone with a calm horse to hack out with.

also how much turnout is he getting and what are you feeding him?

 

[blitznbobs]

Go on a circular hack? If he's taking the mickey out of you you're going to have to be firmer with him or decide he's not he horse for you.

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

I would ride out in company a few times . .going a loop and keep everything to walk to start . .find a path where the horses can be separated and rejoin each other on the hack before heading home.

With youngsters' I've had (I know yours is not young) . .i frequently did this, so they understood 'separation' is not a bad thing.

I would ride out from my yard with the nappy youngster . .head down the road and pick up my friend on her horse . .do a loop of the village, leave my friend on route back for her to return off for her yard . .and push the youngster on down the road and left to my yard where his friends where waiting.

Keep going . .but best for now to head out with someone . .and make sure you have a neck strap on him to grab! . .

But WELL done . .

 

[ihatework]

As you are a sharer the very first thing you must do is to discuss these issues with his owner. Have you done this? If so what did they say?

 

[q105]

i can honestly say that it has taken me the best part of two years to 'connect' with a quirky horse. It may have taken a lot less time with a more straight forward beast.

I have spent a small fortune on lessons so that I can develop a relationship with this animal, and would recommend that you too have some guidance on how to speak with your horse friend. If you can't afford regular lessons, you should definitely enlist the owner who will have experienced the horses quirks and developed a means of managing them.

Don't expect too much from such a short combination. You should definitely not be hacking out alone if you don't know this horse. It's dangerous and irresponsible. If your school work is boring, go online to inspire yourself. Don't rush everything. It won't help anyone.

 

[Red-1]

I guess I will be the first to say then that I would stop riding this horse, unless you get some serious help.

Saying that you can't get his head up from grass would be a warning bell, but having a horse bolt, then just give up on pulling up means I think you are in grave danger.

So, I would either get serious help, or stop riding this horse. I also echo others, where was the owner, how to they get on, have you told them, and what do they suggest?

 

[HashRouge]

As you are a sharer the very first thing you must do is to discuss these issues with his owner. Have you done this? If so what did they say?

^This^
Is the owner riding him too? How is he for her to ride/ handle?

Although I have to say, given he's a share horse, I'd be inclined to give him up and find something more fun. I'm sharing at the moment, two days a week. I have a very busy working week and weekends are also packed, so there is no way I would keep a share horse that I couldn't hack out or handle safely. I've landed on my feet with mine - she is sparky but safe, and a super fun hack.

 

[AmyMay]

Personally, I'd never get back on him.

 

[Tnavas]

Personally, I'd never get back on him.

Agree ^^^^

What are you feeding him? - If supplementary feed - stop that straight away and just feed him hay, that will take some of the edge out of his sails.

What bit are you using? A full cheek waterford might be a good idea for a few hacks.

Work him hard in the school before heading out so he's slightly tired.

A month, only riding a couple of times a week is nothing to develop a bond with - or to get bored riding in the arena.

Keep yourself safe - hack out in company if you can

 

[Goldenstar]

Personally, I'd never get back on him.

Me to he's not yours hes too big and he sounds like a bored thug and not a good match for you .
The leading is easily sorted by carrying a dressage whip but the bad manners and thuggish behaviour out hacking could hurt you him and a completely unconnected innocent MOP who happens to be in the wrong place at the one time .
You also can't go doing want needs doing to someone else's horse.
What does the horses owner say about what's happened ?

 

[Landcruiser]

You could have been killed.
This "taking a hold" (not bolting) behaviour is disrespectful, as is his planting, grass snatching etc. As you say, he's a thug, and he's learned to be a thug through poor handling and training.. The answer is not to smack him - I'd guess he's used to that and it hasn't worked yet.
The first thing I would do is get off and work on leading and ground handling, using appropriate equipment. I find a plain rope halter and a LONG ROPE best, and pressure release. Get him moving away from you easily, try to be consistent and have clear boundaries. Work on this until he leads on a loose rope, forwards and backwards.
The first ridden work would be to teach him a one rein stop. You won't stop a horse like this by pulling on the reins. Once you have a one rein stop in place you can stop with minimal force, although you must practice this regularly, on each ride.
You said you are bored in the school - there are a million things you can do in there which are fun and will help with both ground and ridden work, and trotting in circles is not one of them .
I would not hack this horse out solo unless I knew for sure he would listen to me when I asked him to stop. Non negotiable.

 

[scotlass]

Personally, I'd never get back on him.

Completely agree.

Life is way too short, and this hobby is supposed to be fun.

 

[Pinkvboots]

to be fair you have had him a month his ridden 2 days a week his in a new environment, I think it was a bit ambitious to take him hacking on your own for the first time, I would lead him in a bridle if his that rude on the ground and stick with whatever you are comfortable with at the moment if that's just school work then so be it, I would try to get him ridden a bit more 2 days a week is not much and when his doing a bit more regular work find someone with a calm horse to hack out with.

also how much turnout is he getting and what are you feeding him?

sorry just realised your sharing this horse read it late last night and was tired, I wouldn't ride this horse again why would you put yourself through riding something that is dangerous, find something more suitable that you can be safe on.

 

[Gloi]

Doesn't sound like you are temperamentally suited to each other. Walk away and find a horse less likely to put you in hospital.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Impossible to advise really. Speak to the owner. If he were mine I wouldn't be letting you back on him. A 15 minute hack where you turn for home isn't really the best way to start hacking a new horse as you have now found out.

 

[rowan666]

Honestly as this is a share horse it's the owner you need to be speaking to for advice, that's who knows the horse best and it's all very well being given advice/ideas on a forum but any suggestions would need to be run by the owner first anyway. This horse sounds like it needs very firm (I don't mean beating) assertive handling not the softly softly, sensitive, patient approach and the owner may expect you to treat the horse this way but equally the owner may be against that type of approach. I would just stick to hacking with others for now, ask the owner if this behaviour is just "trying it on" or this is how he usually behaves first and go from there. If his running off is out of character I would stick with him, even the most saintly horses can have an unexpected hot head day for many reasons

 

[Amirah]

Completely agree.

Life is way too short, and this hobby is supposed to be fun.

Me too, there are a ton of lovely horses out there, it's dangerous enough without getting on one like this. It's just not worth it. Glad you're OK, sounds absolutely terrifying.

 

[rhylis]

Thank goodness when he carted you it sounds like you weren't on a road. I personally would have extreme reservation about riding a horse like this but if you persevere stick to the school and build on getting him to really pay attention to you before you venture out again. Also hack out in company when you are eventualy ready to go out again and avoid roadwork if there's any chance he's going to tank off again.

 

[TTK]

Personally, I'd never get back on him.

Wise words AmyMay, neither would I.

 

[Micropony]

Even if you decide you want to, you are not going to sort this out by riding twice a week.
As a sharer, you really need to be speaking to the owner, and unless the two of you have a plan, are totally consistent and are both prepared to invest in some really good training from a good professional to help you with both the ground and ridden manners I would suggest you're probably on a hiding to nothing.
To take a horse out who's an unknown quantity on a solo hack that involves turning back on yourself probably wasn't a particularly cunning plan really! This horse is going to require you to think about things much more carefully if you are going to make progress with him.
If you are up for it this horse probably has a great deal to teach you, but he could also leave your confidence in tatters. It doesn't sound like he's going to be easy and you might have to accept that you and this particular horse may never be able to do certain things, like hacking alone, that other people might take for granted.
Personally, having been on a similar journey with my last horse, I am not at all convinced I would have been prepared to invest that much time, money and emotion in someone else's horse. And if the management of the horse isn't spot on, you've got no chance.
Best of luck, whatever you decide.

 

[atropa]

It sounds to me like the horse doesn't respect you and therefore messes you about coming in from the field, and also has no confidence in you, hence calling for his friends and rushing to get home from the hack. My mare also does this trick if she is feeling particularly hot on a hack, but I know her well enough to intervene when she first calls out to her friends so we have never got to the taking a hold and running home stage. When she does it I keep my seat and reins very relaxed, chat away to her and start doing some neck flexion to either side whilst still walking her forward toward home, to give her something to think about.

To me his behaviour doesn't sound particularly shocking or dangerous, just that perhaps the OP is a bit overhorsed.

 

[MDB]

Wise words AmyMay, neither would I.

Same here. All horses can get spooked, unexpected things can happen. Horse riding has enough of these dangers without adding a in a horse who has zero respect and is a known bolter. There comes a tipping point when the risk to your own safety becomes too much. You have to decide where that line gets drawn.

 

[jemstar]

Even if you decide you want to, you are not going to sort this out by riding twice a week.
As a sharer, you really need to be speaking to the owner, and unless the two of you have a plan, are totally consistent and are both prepared to invest in some really good training from a good professional to help you with both the ground and ridden manners I would suggest you're probably on a hiding to nothing.
To take a horse out who's an unknown quantity on a solo hack that involves turning back on yourself probably wasn't a particularly cunning plan really! This horse is going to require you to think about things much more carefully if you are going to make progress with him.
If you are up for it this horse probably has a great deal to teach you, but he could also leave your confidence in tatters. It doesn't sound like he's going to be easy and you might have to accept that you and this particular horse may never be able to do certain things, like hacking alone, that other people might take for granted.
Personally, having been on a similar journey with my last horse, I am not at all convinced I would have been prepared to invest that much time, money and emotion in someone else's horse. And if the management of the horse isn't spot on, you've got no chance.
Best of luck, whatever you decide.

Yes the owner needs to be prepared to work on this with you. It's very difficult when the horse isn't yours, you're the only one riding and you aren't able to dedicate more time.

I very nearly took a previous share horse on full time until I realised I wasn't experienced enough to deal with her. (I don't think I would have ever got to the stage where we hacked out alone.) The owner had lost confidence and eventually I did too (6 months in) and I decided to call it a day. I loved her dearly but it is your hobby and its suppost to be fun. I found a more suitable share and didn't look back.

If you do decide to stick with him, as others have suggested, have lots of lessons (ridden and groundwork) to help build your bond and confidence in eachother. Realistically it could take years. Riding in the school is safer, if he takes off with you he can't go far.

Good luck!

 

[Micropony]

Same here. All horses can get spooked, unexpected things can happen. Horse riding has enough of these dangers without adding a in a horse who has zero respect and is a known bolter. There comes a tipping point when the risk to your own safety becomes too much. You have to decide where that line gets drawn.

To be fair to the horse, it doesn't sound to me like he 'bolted', as in blind panic. Sounds more like he is not well trained, was in a situation he hadn't been taught how to cope with, very possibly hadn't had enough exercise, decided he needed to take control of the situation and nobbed off with his rider. Not nice, not nice at all for the passenger, but I wouldn't call that a bolter.

 

[MrMuleMe]

Good replies and responses to my questions, thanks! I'll try and address some of the questions...

Field / routine etc. Part of my frustration is I don't have much control over this. For instance, the nappy behavior while leading in. I may easily solve this by hanging a hay nay at his tying point, so when I fetch him he knows he's got something to look forward to. I'd also have it so that rather than turning him back out, I'd put him to bed as well so he'd get dinner after work. That would reinforce the incentive to come in. As for bossing him about, again that is really unlikely to work. I strongly suspect it's been tried and he's thick skinned. But once or twice when he's put his head down I've coiled the lead rope around his nose and he absolutely hates that and will try and get the rope back down. So I can see his reaction is to fight back, rather than flee like my previous mare would (even the sound of a whip cracking would send her head flying)

Taking to her owner. From past experience, telling people what they should do or not do with their horses goes down like a lead balloon. So I prefer to thread very lightly - essentially my hands are tied. If I tell people what to do with their own horses, that's condescending. If I ask for too much advice, I'm inexperienced. But from the conversations I've had, the answers I've had are largely I don't know...

Tack. Bridle furniture consists of the usual nose band, throat lash plus a running martingale and a straight plastic bit.

Schooling. Initially he was a stubborn and difficult, napping and slowing back into walk. Although he's improved hugely now. It's telling to mention that he's even bolted with me in the school, not fun either! Having said that, I can get him trotting on a great contact with a good outline. Although I've had no luck with canter. He seems unsure of how to make the transition and goes a bit silly when asked. Lunging him might help there.

Ultimately, he's a bit of a neglect case. Not because he doesn't get looked after, he does! But his owner is extremely busy and barely copes, hence sadly he's been on the back burner and is a bit of left in the field bored case. That's the jist of his situation. I've dealt with challenging horses before, my previous share bless her heart was rescued of the travellers. She was an abuse case, primarily abused by men so as you can imagine she wasn't keen on me. In fact on a hack back home, she bronco'ed me off and wasn't stopping until I was off. Fast forward years later, I could hack her bare back, solo for over an hour with complete confidence in walk, (slow trot!) and canter on a happy mouth. What a difference.

So I'm at pain here, I've worked with difficult horses in the past that have become a soul mate to me. Hence I'm reluctant to give up. I just want to think he's a rough diamond. Perhaps I'm just deluded.

If I do go back, I'm actually tempted to tack him up and lead him out with a stick. I suspect he'll be very nappy, but that might be worth a go. I'm not sure if I want to hack him out even in company. May the be bit arrangement but he appears to knows that he can ignore having the bit pulled in his mouth and that's extremely worrying. It's that alone which makes me think this situation is a bit unsalvageable...?

 

[RunToEarth]

What noseband and what bit is he in? Did it bolt of just run off with you? If it did bolt, I wouldn't be giving it a backwards glance, personally.