Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Yes pretty much and a bit more!
A good cross for a short legged Jack Russell?
- Thread starter Sun
- Start date
3DE
Well-Known Member
Lol, I know that avatar, actually this is good for me considering how ***** and forgetful I am and now half pished
I must be stramashed too - completely forgot that I'd put it in my siggy
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
I must be stramashed too - completely forgot that I'd put it in my siggy
LMfatFAO, Im not bright enough to look to ya siggi
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
Clearly, those who responded to my comment about responsible breeding did not read the rest of my post - shame...
I can see how those of you involved in rescue can feel like the majority of crossbreed mutts end up in kennels... instead of much loved pets to the end of their days - which most of them do, I believe, and if I am wrong, please show me actual figures from a properly researched study.
For those people actively breeding & standing dogs at stud (one Parson dog was offered to the OP pretty much immediately after telling them they were irresponsible for even thinking about breeding from their bitch??? WTF???), well I am still reeling from the hypocrisy.
What makes some people somehow better than others at judging whether people may or may not divorce in 5 years' time and move to a small flat, or may have to emigrate to Australia and not be able to take the dog with them???
I can see how those of you involved in rescue can feel like the majority of crossbreed mutts end up in kennels... instead of much loved pets to the end of their days - which most of them do, I believe, and if I am wrong, please show me actual figures from a properly researched study.
For those people actively breeding & standing dogs at stud (one Parson dog was offered to the OP pretty much immediately after telling them they were irresponsible for even thinking about breeding from their bitch??? WTF???), well I am still reeling from the hypocrisy.
What makes some people somehow better than others at judging whether people may or may not divorce in 5 years' time and move to a small flat, or may have to emigrate to Australia and not be able to take the dog with them???
PerdixPerdix
Well-Known Member
completely agree with this. i cant really beleive just how many generalisations and assumptions are being made by otherwise level headed and knowledgeble members! as for the crazy 'working terriers dont make lapdogs' comments... um 90 percent of lapdogs that i know of, including my own 4, are of the working terrier persuasion, am completely baffled why anyone who has come into any sort of contact with terriers working or not at any time in their life would make such a daft generalisation.
to OP, i dont know whether you have ever bred you dogs before, but its not as easy as just popping out some pups and picking the best, they need care and attention for the first 8-10 weeks of their life and rehomeing can be difficult. its expensive and you would probably be better off just adopting a reome dog. plus terrier puppies are little feckers!!! i do understand about you wanting to carry on 'the line' as well though. probably not best to cross with dacshund either.
3DE
Well-Known Member
The reason being that if someone has paid £600-£700 or even over £1000 they are much more likely to sell the dog on and ensure it has a good home - hitting someone in the pocket makes someone more responsible. A 'free' dog that cost nothing is much more likely to be dumped at the pound.
It's not nice but that is how some people are - they value things more if they have paid a lot of money for them...
PerdixPerdix
Well-Known Member
another generalisation that i dont think is entirely true. i would be wary of anyone buying a puppy that is madly overpriced as it would be a dead giveaway that they werent too clued up.
a lady called about our terriers last week and mentioned she had seen patterdaleX's for £300 and what was wrong with mine as the price was so low £150...?? i had to laugh and suggest she didnt part with any cash until she had done some research.
if anything i think its the breed that defines rehoming, as people take on a puppy and arent prepared for its size/enthusiasm. friends of ours recently paid out over a grand for...i cant remember..huge fluffy thing, and did all the reasearch they could on it, but if they hadnt can you imagine?
my main gripe is the amount of working dogs who are bought because their parents won feild trials and whatever and then end up with a psychotic head case that needed serious time and stimulation invested into it.
Sun
Well-Known Member
I have pretty much given up on this post or getting any form of helpful advice. However I would like to thank those who HAVE offered advice, and to those who also spotted the ridiculous hypocrisy.
To those who offered me advice on the costs etc, I can assure you we are very comfortable and in fact we live on a farm, again I didnt coem here asking stupid questions like "how much does it cost... ect"
Experience wise, I worked for a well known kennels some time ago, they where hugely repected in the dog world and also well known and repected judge. They bred huge qauntities of puppies of many diffrent breeds. On the basis of this I do not for one minute assume "Respected Pedigree Breeders" are infact breeding for the exact purpose of putting puppies on the ground for their own use. In contrast many farmers are breeding up and down the country from a favorite bitch to provide the farm with the required workhands & to continue the blood of a good bitch. Yes extra pups are sold on but often within the community itself. I consider this a far more ethical breeding practice than many pedigree show dog breeders.
Yes, having now looked into the Daxi x TR, that is not a good match, and actually having thought of it a great deal over the last few days I have decided I am going to outcross her with the same type JR but from a different area as most JRs in this area are related. Because in reality she is perfect.
Basically, what I got from this post was that this dog section of the forum is full of hypocritical judgmental people. So thank you, but goodbye.
To those who offered me advice on the costs etc, I can assure you we are very comfortable and in fact we live on a farm, again I didnt coem here asking stupid questions like "how much does it cost... ect"
Experience wise, I worked for a well known kennels some time ago, they where hugely repected in the dog world and also well known and repected judge. They bred huge qauntities of puppies of many diffrent breeds. On the basis of this I do not for one minute assume "Respected Pedigree Breeders" are infact breeding for the exact purpose of putting puppies on the ground for their own use. In contrast many farmers are breeding up and down the country from a favorite bitch to provide the farm with the required workhands & to continue the blood of a good bitch. Yes extra pups are sold on but often within the community itself. I consider this a far more ethical breeding practice than many pedigree show dog breeders.
Yes, having now looked into the Daxi x TR, that is not a good match, and actually having thought of it a great deal over the last few days I have decided I am going to outcross her with the same type JR but from a different area as most JRs in this area are related. Because in reality she is perfect.
Basically, what I got from this post was that this dog section of the forum is full of hypocritical judgmental people. So thank you, but goodbye.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Actually, the right sort of JRT x IS highly sought after!!
This is my JRT x - he WAS a private rescue from an unsuitable home.
He is THE most fabulous little dog - and I've had people begging me to know where they can find one like him. He has sired two litters - out of two different JRT bitches (yeah - call me irresponsible but I knew the owners of the bitches well and they WANTED to breed a litter - and were responsible owners.)
The pups from both litters were fabulous - a real variety of colours - and all were sold to friends/relatives of the bitches' owners - I regularly get updates on them. And both bitches' owners have a list of people wanting a pup from a future litter!
The FACT is that not every responsible owner wants a rescue. I have 3 - and all arrived with 'issues' - Benny's being the least of the problems (he was 6 months when I got him.) The other two - a Springer, with severe separation anxiety and nervous aggression, and a Foxhound x Lab - who had been rehomed 4 times before I got her - her longest stay in a new home was a week - would NOT be suitable for many perfectly responsible dog owners!
It seems some people here would say that anyone who wants a puppy that HASN'T been screwed up by idiots is not fit to own a dog!! That's as stupid as suggesting that no-one should - God forbid - buy a nice youngster, properly started, and with no issues. They should instead go onto Project Horses and buy a horse that has soundness and behavioural issues!
It is NOT the individual, responsible owner who breeds a litter - having thought through all the potential problems- that IS the problem! It's the Puppy Farms, churning out badly reared litters - and irresponsible owners who buy a puppy with no thought for what it will grow into!
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Er get your facts right I DID NOT offer the OP my dog at stud!
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Yes and if you put those comments back in the context they are written they make perfect sense and NOWHERE do I offer my dog for stud. My dog sires about 4 litters a year, to carefully selected bitches. I turn down about 20 requests for matings per year. Believe me I am not about to stud him out over a forum to someone I dont know and I am disgusted at being accused to contrary
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CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Ginnie, if you knew what Vizslak has been through this year, she could have pimped out three of her dogs several times over with no afterthought at all, and made a tidy amount of cash for herself, but she didn't, because she isn't that sort of person.
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
Ditto this, and yes if u string such quotes together u are bound to come up with your own quote
You could probably string a few of mine together and decifer im a puppy farm also
She could have made a small fortune from her own litter of parsons, but chose to be responsible and not risk the dogs welfare because of her own circumstance.
The quote game looks cool however, I might go make my own up
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
and I had an accidental mating just after M left that I could have made tidy money out of...I took the bitch for a termination
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Ditto CC and Cayla, you really have got the wrong end of the stick re Vizslak Ginnie.
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
Look, TBH, I normally have no interest or inclination in vilifying anyone, especially people I don't know.
BUT, I was hugely shocked and upset at the patronising, rude and frankly unacceptable tone of some of the comments made on this thread, so decided to join in with equal gusto... for my sins - I now feel dirty to have come down to the level of insult, snobbery and hypocrisy of some of the other posters, including Vizslak.
Re-read this thread and tell me everything said here fits within the frame of a polite exchange of views?! I expect that from the teenagers on NL, but surely, none of us are PMT'd teenagers???
Shame, I have just acquired a little cross breed terrier puppy & was hoping to pick up some helpful training tips from you knowledgeable dog people - not sure I want to be part of this though...
BUT, I was hugely shocked and upset at the patronising, rude and frankly unacceptable tone of some of the comments made on this thread, so decided to join in with equal gusto... for my sins - I now feel dirty to have come down to the level of insult, snobbery and hypocrisy of some of the other posters, including Vizslak.
Re-read this thread and tell me everything said here fits within the frame of a polite exchange of views?! I expect that from the teenagers on NL, but surely, none of us are PMT'd teenagers???
Shame, I have just acquired a little cross breed terrier puppy & was hoping to pick up some helpful training tips from you knowledgeable dog people - not sure I want to be part of this though...
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Vizslak
Well-Known Member
To be fair you are correct...the OP's tone dictated the tone of some replys though, however I think if you read the entire thread properly its clear there were some misunderstandings from the original post and actually a reasonable discussion was reached in the end.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
GW, hang around, you'll find some very strong, but often divergent views, it would be a very boring world if we all agreed with one another.
I still find this place a lot more cordial than other parts of the forum, in terms of having a discussion, it getting a bit heated, then settling down again - some of the people in AAD, I totally agree with on one thread, but totally oppose that view on another, does it mean either of us are wrong?
At the end of the day, it gets heated because we all love dogs, our own, a breed, all dogs, and I do not think there is anything wrong with that.
You can also see how easy wires get crossed and the written word can be misinterpreted.
I still find this place a lot more cordial than other parts of the forum, in terms of having a discussion, it getting a bit heated, then settling down again - some of the people in AAD, I totally agree with on one thread, but totally oppose that view on another, does it mean either of us are wrong?
At the end of the day, it gets heated because we all love dogs, our own, a breed, all dogs, and I do not think there is anything wrong with that.
You can also see how easy wires get crossed and the written word can be misinterpreted.
GinnieRedwings
Well-Known Member
I'm all for open discussion and do not wish to be in agreement with all people at all times - but there are ways to argue your corner without making other people feel inadequate for having their own viewpoint. It is even more important when you are part of a community of like minded people who you know will intervene to back you up... i.e. All breeding of cross-bred dogs is inherently wrong and can only equal irresponsible breeding... what ends up happening is a clique of people bullying the one discenting voice - who as it happens is NOT WRONG in thinking that she CAN breed a little of JRT x AND find good forever (as much as anyone can EVER be certain of that!!!) homes for them all & does not deserve to be called a moron (I quote) or irresponsible or anything else for that matter.
You are right, the written word can be misinterpreted - but in many respects, it gives you the time and the distance that the spoken word doesn't, so by reading carefully others' comments and re-reading your own equally carefully can you be involved in an intelligent and positive debate rather than a fishwives' squabble.
You are right, the written word can be misinterpreted - but in many respects, it gives you the time and the distance that the spoken word doesn't, so by reading carefully others' comments and re-reading your own equally carefully can you be involved in an intelligent and positive debate rather than a fishwives' squabble.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Agreed and I have just explained to MM and CC why exactly my posting style on this thread was not my usual...I do not post in this mannar normally and I think you would be hard pushed to find any posts where I have flown off the handle like this previously. And I didnt call the OP a moron...I said I was fed up with morons on this forum...which summed up the way I was feeling. However that wasnt the OP's fault and I apologise to her for being rather rude.
I still dont agree with your viewpoint I'm afraid though, people should not be breeding random crossbreed litters for the hell of it (or buying the pups from such matings). IF the OP carries out relevant health checks and is breeding a litter of working terriers and has good homes lined up and is prepared to offer lifetime back up however, my viewpoint adjusts slightly.
I still dont agree with your viewpoint I'm afraid though, people should not be breeding random crossbreed litters for the hell of it (or buying the pups from such matings). IF the OP carries out relevant health checks and is breeding a litter of working terriers and has good homes lined up and is prepared to offer lifetime back up however, my viewpoint adjusts slightly.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
I don't agree with breeding anything, crossbred or not, without both parents having been proven via work or lightly shown, if not titled, to make sure they are good examples of their breed, and have all their current health tests with good results. Before anyone mentions character and temper, these should not be mutually exclusive to a dog who can work, show or both. Or without homes already being lined up, and of course, to breed one for myself, or else what is the point, apart from making money.
This is borne from the love of a breed that has been badly affected by generations of people breeding a 'nice' dog to a 'nice' bitch without knowing what was lurking in the lines. I have two 'lovely' dogs, but neither of them will be procreating because I know they're not good enough.
Even if they were considered good breeding stock, I doubt in all conscience I could let one single solitary puppy go in this current climate, without agonising about it.
That's just me though.
This is borne from the love of a breed that has been badly affected by generations of people breeding a 'nice' dog to a 'nice' bitch without knowing what was lurking in the lines. I have two 'lovely' dogs, but neither of them will be procreating because I know they're not good enough.
Even if they were considered good breeding stock, I doubt in all conscience I could let one single solitary puppy go in this current climate, without agonising about it.
That's just me though.
3DE
Well-Known Member
My sentiments put far more eloquently
People condemn people for breeding from a mare with unknown breeding - how is a dog any different?competitiondiva
Well-Known Member
OK I'll admit that I haven't read all what 12 pages of replies here!!! But as someone who works alot with rescues I would ask for you to seriously think about this, yes you are probably a very responsible owner and have the best interests of your dog etc in mind but please consider:
a) if something happened to your bitch whilst giving birth and god forbid died.... would you forgive yourself.
b) can you guarantee a good, home checked home for every pup that you do rehome, and that they will be neutered and not have money made out of them through breeding?
c) can you offer to take back any of the pups that end up needing to be rehomed if the new owner cannot cope etc?
d) the owners you do seek, are probably only going to be the best, but don't the rescues in centres already who didn't ask to be born deserve to land in the laps of these people you seek?
Rescue centres as you are aware are heaving, added to that the normal, post christmas throw away.... homes need to be found for the dogs we in the uk already have. Now if you had homes lined up already for all the possible pups then it may be a different matter, but if you are needing to advertise then I would ask against doing it.
My friend had a litter out of her JR, none of the pups have the same temperament as the mum, there is no guarantee of this happening, so doing it just to try to get another like your beloved bitch isn't a guarantee. Dogs should be with us for life, they give us everything, but at the end of the day they cannot last forever and cannot be duplicated. I have a lab x, she is the BEST dog ever, but if think if I ever had another lab, I'd be constantly comparing it to her, which wouldn't be fair, I would probably be looking to get in the future something that looked nothing like her instead!!!
But if after all that you still want to go ahead then I would say to go for another JR or parsons JR or possibly a plummer terrier. Of course these are not lap dogs, but neither is your JR, as a breed they love and need to be on the go and getting into trouble, in the years I've worked with dogs, the only breed I think I could ever call a 'lap' dog (as in loves to be curled up, not needing much exercise) is a greyhound!!!!! All speed, no stamina!!! Every other dog including pomerainians (sp?!) were active, athletic little things.
Good luck whatever you choose.
a) if something happened to your bitch whilst giving birth and god forbid died.... would you forgive yourself.
b) can you guarantee a good, home checked home for every pup that you do rehome, and that they will be neutered and not have money made out of them through breeding?
c) can you offer to take back any of the pups that end up needing to be rehomed if the new owner cannot cope etc?
d) the owners you do seek, are probably only going to be the best, but don't the rescues in centres already who didn't ask to be born deserve to land in the laps of these people you seek?
Rescue centres as you are aware are heaving, added to that the normal, post christmas throw away.... homes need to be found for the dogs we in the uk already have. Now if you had homes lined up already for all the possible pups then it may be a different matter, but if you are needing to advertise then I would ask against doing it.
My friend had a litter out of her JR, none of the pups have the same temperament as the mum, there is no guarantee of this happening, so doing it just to try to get another like your beloved bitch isn't a guarantee. Dogs should be with us for life, they give us everything, but at the end of the day they cannot last forever and cannot be duplicated. I have a lab x, she is the BEST dog ever, but if think if I ever had another lab, I'd be constantly comparing it to her, which wouldn't be fair, I would probably be looking to get in the future something that looked nothing like her instead!!!
But if after all that you still want to go ahead then I would say to go for another JR or parsons JR or possibly a plummer terrier. Of course these are not lap dogs, but neither is your JR, as a breed they love and need to be on the go and getting into trouble, in the years I've worked with dogs, the only breed I think I could ever call a 'lap' dog (as in loves to be curled up, not needing much exercise) is a greyhound!!!!! All speed, no stamina!!! Every other dog including pomerainians (sp?!) were active, athletic little things.
Good luck whatever you choose.
echodomino
Well-Known Member
I said that in one of my posts, as I agree totally with you, and I got called selfish!!
I give up lol
3DE
Well-Known Member
competitiondiva
Well-Known Member
Lurchers can be included in that group too
oh of course CC, lurchers definately in that group!
Pix
Well-Known Member
This whole thread has given me a headache! From what I read the OP has a nice stamp of JRT which she wants to breed in order to a) continue the line and b) create something more lap-dog orientated that the bitch herself. Maybe I have read the responses differently to others but the general feeling I get is don't do it simply because the two separate reasons do not gel together so well. If you have a good JRT and want to continue that line, then breed her to another good JRT that will get the results you want. If you want a lap dog then look towards breeders or rescues that will supply you with one. If you hope to outcross in order to get what you want, then the chances are slim on a first generation mating. You just can't tell what you will get from a first gen cross, it will be such a mixed bag. It will be quite the gamble and that's without finding homes for the rest of the litter.
I don't see how the above can be found offensive, or patronising etc. It's just common sense. There exists no magical puppy fairy that will ensure your pups will have the exact mix of genes and hereditary traits that you desire
I've no doubt at all the OP is quite capable of breeding and finding homes for her pups, just that the reason for breeding in this case might be a little blinded by love of the bitch in question.
I'd also agree with the overall message in CC's last post. My GSD has had his nuts whipped off recently. He's not breeding material, no matter how much I would love another close coated, big eared, dark masked, over sized donkey just like him (fits my personal taste, I shall no doubt be whipped by the GSD mafia). His collection of faults makes him unsuitable for breeding in my eyes, no matter how great any advice in the matter I might receive.
Just my 2p!
I don't see how the above can be found offensive, or patronising etc. It's just common sense. There exists no magical puppy fairy that will ensure your pups will have the exact mix of genes and hereditary traits that you desire
I've no doubt at all the OP is quite capable of breeding and finding homes for her pups, just that the reason for breeding in this case might be a little blinded by love of the bitch in question.I'd also agree with the overall message in CC's last post. My GSD has had his nuts whipped off recently. He's not breeding material, no matter how much I would love another close coated, big eared, dark masked, over sized donkey just like him (fits my personal taste, I shall no doubt be whipped by the GSD mafia
). His collection of faults makes him unsuitable for breeding in my eyes, no matter how great any advice in the matter I might receive.Just my 2p!
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
I'm bewildered by some of this - especially because i spent 5 months last year looking for a little terrier type of dog to replace the gap left by my 17 year old lhasa ( who was an out an out ratter/rabbiter, lorry dog,therapy dog, and lap dog).
Local rescues only had staffie crosses. I love staffies,had one many years
ago, but I won't have one now. I tried little dog rescue and others, filled out forms and no one ever got back to me!! even although I could supply vet refs etc.
I offered to rehome a old lhasa and was told over the phone that my country home would not be his sort of thing( A dog is happier in a city???)
I wasn't bothered what the dog looked like, I just wanted a little dog and was confident I could offer a super home.
So, my experience has been that rescuing a small dog is far from easy.
And had I seen this thread some months ago I would be offering a home to one of Sun's future pups!
There is a lovely whippet by my side as I write this....
Local rescues only had staffie crosses. I love staffies,had one many years
ago, but I won't have one now. I tried little dog rescue and others, filled out forms and no one ever got back to me!! even although I could supply vet refs etc.
I offered to rehome a old lhasa and was told over the phone that my country home would not be his sort of thing( A dog is happier in a city???)
I wasn't bothered what the dog looked like, I just wanted a little dog and was confident I could offer a super home.
So, my experience has been that rescuing a small dog is far from easy.
And had I seen this thread some months ago I would be offering a home to one of Sun's future pups!
There is a lovely whippet by my side as I write this....
miniwhisper
Member
I am bewildered by this thread! I think that when someone asks a question like this, they are being responsible to look for advice before going ahead. The most positive reply was the advice about not using a daxie because of the back problems. The OP obviously took this on board so is now less likely to make this mistake
As we all know, rescue centres are all full to the brim with Staffie types. Friends of mine have tried and failed to find smaller dogs at rescues.
The OP obviusly has the time, space and experience to breed a litter of pups and if she is careful to make sure that they are healthy (bitch tested for whatever is appropriate to the breed) I think it is up to her regardless of whether I or anyone else thinks it is a good idea. She is not breaking any laws. Some people may disagree with what she is proposing but personally I think that our collective anger should be directed towards those who are breeding aggressive type dogs in unsuitable environments rather than against someone who loves her dog and is hoping to produce pups suitable as companions. I doubt that any of the OPs puppies wont be found good homes and are extremely unlikely to be a damger to anyone.
As we all know, rescue centres are all full to the brim with Staffie types. Friends of mine have tried and failed to find smaller dogs at rescues.
The OP obviusly has the time, space and experience to breed a litter of pups and if she is careful to make sure that they are healthy (bitch tested for whatever is appropriate to the breed) I think it is up to her regardless of whether I or anyone else thinks it is a good idea. She is not breaking any laws. Some people may disagree with what she is proposing but personally I think that our collective anger should be directed towards those who are breeding aggressive type dogs in unsuitable environments rather than against someone who loves her dog and is hoping to produce pups suitable as companions. I doubt that any of the OPs puppies wont be found good homes and are extremely unlikely to be a damger to anyone.