A musing from a grumpy old git.

[Morgan123]

Thanks for the responses so far. Much food for thought which bring me to a sub-musing......
Taking all the people I know / have met that are out competing at the entry levels (dont like the word low level) when ever I have asked if they plan to compete at several levels up almost to a person they will not respond with "No desire to". What I tend to get is "would be to scared to", "horse not capable", "I wouldn't be good enough".
So reading between the lines the desire buried deep inside is there but they are probably being held back by something.
Is the training system in this country failing to inspire, instill confidence, create belief? Are their peer groups holding them back? Is it a fear of failure for trying?
I would love to know.

Very interesting question!!
Hmm I wonder if people can comment on experiences in training systems in other countries - to me, the riding schools being generally so limiting (not all of them, but many) is a bit of a barrier. It's expensive and difficult to learn to a really decent level - nobody comes out of a riding school and competes at BE90! So then you get your own horse but you're not that confident so far so achievements are slow.... I guess ideally you need a mentor rather than an instructor.

I think often the most confident people are the ones lucky enough to have ridden from a young age and done PC or hunted or whatever. What could be done about it?? Dunno - more mentor type instructors who help you outside of your one hour weekly slot? More sports psychologists to help your average joe?

 

[PaddyMonty]

we all have a limit to our fear/ability.

I agree with you apart from this. I personally believe people have unlimited potential, they just need the desire and help to create the ability.
Agree that the pro's would move the horses on faster than I would. It's their living and they are at it 24/7. My point was I am just an average joe like millions of others in the equestrian world with the similar limitations on time and money. Hence the comparison.
I could have used my OH as an example. Complete loss of confidence after her horse was hit by a car out hacking and both traveled 30 yards up the road on top of car. Horse was replace with a 10yo welsh D happy hacker that cost us £1800. OH went on to gain points at BD advanced medium with this horse whilst raising two kids, running a house and holding down a stressful job.

 

[milliepops]

Thanks for the responses so far. Much food for thought which bring me to a sub-musing......
Taking all the people I know / have met that are out competing at the entry levels (dont like the word low level) when ever I have asked if they plan to compete at several levels up almost to a person they will not respond with "No desire to". What I tend to get is "would be to scared to", "horse not capable", "I wouldn't be good enough".
So reading between the lines the desire buried deep inside is there but they are probably being held back by something.
Is the training system in this country failing to inspire, instill confidence, create belief? Are their peer groups holding them back? Is it a fear of failure for trying?
I would love to know.

I'm loving this thread, it's way more interesting than what i should be doing so have some more of my 2ps.

I think there are several things going on here:
firstly, too much poor, uninspiring training. I don't think this is deliberate, I think there are lots of people honestly turning up for regular lessons - just like so many are told to do on here - but the instructor is either a bit out of their depth and going through the motions, or doesn't have the imagination or experience to see a way forward that could be more than what they are currently doing. I don't think that it's deliberate, I think they perhaps have a niche with nervous people or very novice people.
Plus Lots of clients feel bad about leaving their professionals (thinking about recent 'how do I tell my farrier I'm swapping to another one' threads on here recently ...just say so and then do it!)

Second - and this is one that applied to me - it's interesting, appealing and easy to watch the top levels of horse sport. They are dressed up in nice packages - Badminton, BD Champs, HOYS etc. As an amateur starting out this can look SO unachievable that it's not relevant. It's like watching a film rather than watching something you could eventually do.

I lose count of the number of grand prix tests I've watched, or GP level demos with dressage bigwigs, and I looked at them, sighed and thought I'll never be good enough, going home disheartened.
I so wish I could go back in time and meet my former self! i'd tell myself to go and watch some amateurs doing AM or PSG upwards and see that they have wobbles and mistakes, and aren't perfect riders on megabucks horses.. then it suddenly looks a bit more like something you could aspire to.

Same thing if you go and watch Novice BE and below - you'll see the sport warts and all. Then it looks more relevant.

 

[puppystitch]

I can see both sides to this, and I think it very much depends who is doing the talking. I see plenty of people who have been happily(I assume!) bobbling around prelim / novice for years, displaying their rosettes and feeling proud of themselves and their horses. In my area, they are usually women 30+, possibly also have a career and a family, and here's something nice they get to do for themselves that feels like an achievement. As others have said, the lower levels are so accessible now, and I think it's wonderful.

On the other hand, there are people who claim to have the desire to improve yet they aren't willing to put in the time and effort required and that's where you start to get the excuses. These are the ones that annoy me. They're usually also the ones who will have a horse that's ideal for them, decide they want to move up a level so rather than put in the training they sell on the perfect horse and buy something they can't ride. When that doesn't work out it becomes the bit / saddle / bridle / feed / whatever else.

I don't have a lot of time to ride but when I do I try to make it effective, I take regular lessons, try to work on our homework and add in my own bits and bobs for fun. I'm down there rain or shine, often in the dark evenings over winter I'm all alone-y on my own-y whilst everyone else is tucked up in the warm. Then they wonder why I got a better score than them at our first elementary test when they've been at that level for years, and we only started at prelim just over a year ago (horse was previously a SJ-er, retired to dressage). If the score matters that much then get up off the sofa!

 

[LadySam]

firstly, too much poor, uninspiring training. I don't think this is deliberate, I think there are lots of people honestly turning up for regular lessons - just like so many are told to do on here - but the instructor is either a bit out of their depth and going through the motions, or doesn't have the imagination or experience to see a way forward that could be more than what they are currently doing.

This. Being able to teach the motions is one thing. Being able to envision, inspire, embolden and challenge is quite another. Quite a rare talent, I think.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Well ok here goes. I would like to do a BE80 on my horse. The reasons I haven't yet are we lost nearly a year due to saddle issues, then just as I got that sorted out I fell off and broke my ribs, that's lost me 6 months, and has also devastated my confidence.

So now I'm back on, my confidence is increasing (albeit not to BE80 height!) and the flipping horse has something unknown wrong with it.

While I genuinely would like to do a BE80 what I mean when I say that is I would like to feel confident enough to achieve it, with my horse who while she is only 14.2 and a cob is certainly capable of jumping that height and doing a reasonable test etc etc and most importantly I feel safe on her and I want to be fit enough to do it.

I've got another horse who would do it much more easily in some ways but she's also much more of a handful (and hopefully in foal just now as I knew with the ribs etc her career was on hold).

So in the meantime I will continue bumbling around being happy if I'm brave enough to do a 70cm SJ course (we did have a win at 90cm BS prior to the saddle debacle!). If I got back there I would be happy and relieved but I also acknowledge it's going to be a long road for me and it's mostly fear based due to finding out how flipping sore it can be if you have a bad fall (which was only on to a rubber surface yet broke multiple ribs!).

 

[PaddyMonty]

FW - you are not the sot of person I meant. Horse and rider off games is a very different matter.
Hope you get to the bottom of the unknown issues and get to that 80.

 

[KautoStar1]

I'm seeing more and more nervous riders these days. Why is this?

Because they are over horsed. Plain and simple.

 

[Cortez]

Because they are over horsed. Plain and simple.

Or poorly taught to ride?

 

[ljohnsonsj]

Because people these days find it almost impossible to admit when they're struggling/can't do something. Too many 'Yeah buts' I find when trying to help people. Also people are too sensitive. Some of the people who have taught me could of had you in tears if you didn't have a thick skin but they taught me to ride!

 

[chestnut cob]

Those kind of comments make it all worthwhile, for various reasons don't they? A few months ago I was stopped at the scoreboard by my judge, asking if I had 'the cob'. I said yes, wondering what was coming next... he said that was the kind of horse more people needed at this level (Novice BD at the time),that would come in and do a job without making a fuss, and consequently win the class. It was one of those days when the lovely smart WBs were all farting about being generally ridiculous. Made my heart swell with pride.

I have this conversation with people regularly. There are a couple of nice sporty cobby/ native types on my current yard (dare I say mine is one... ) and I always think what nice, easy horses they are. I often get comments from horsey people (physios, EDT, trainers, all sorts) that more people need this sort of horse instead of something big and flashy that they'll never be able to ride. Both of those on our yard are fab - good size, can be picked up and put down, will do a nice Prelim/ Nov DR test, will jump around a 90cm SJ and XC clear, usually in the ribbons, sensible on fun rides, nice to hack, just generally nice people to have around.
I really do think people at my level overlook them in favour of thinking they need something bigger, flashier, whatever.

 

[milliepops]

I really do think people at my level overlook them in favour of thinking they need something bigger, flashier, whatever.

Agree - Kira wouldn't be the right horse for a lot of people in fairness, she is a tricky weirdo who needs a lot of work to keep in the right headspace, but she does look like one of the easy ones, lol!

Millie - now if I could clone her I'd have a Millie for the rest of my days. She is as you describe, but more capable again - totally plain ordinary horse but she has been a total joy to own and I wish everyone could have as much fun with their horses as I've had with her.

 

[puppystitch]

I have this conversation with people regularly. There are a couple of nice sporty cobby/ native types on my current yard (dare I say mine is one... ) and I always think what nice, easy horses they are. I often get comments from horsey people (physios, EDT, trainers, all sorts) that more people need this sort of horse instead of something big and flashy that they'll never be able to ride. Both of those on our yard are fab - good size, can be picked up and put down, will do a nice Prelim/ Nov DR test, will jump around a 90cm SJ and XC clear, usually in the ribbons, sensible on fun rides, nice to hack, just generally nice people to have around.
I really do think people at my level overlook them in favour of thinking they need something bigger, flashier, whatever.

This is what I was getting at but more eloquently put! In our increasingly disposable / consumer driven society people quickly sell on horses they think don't look the part and buy what they think they 'ought' to have. Or the what they think will impress other people. Maybe they see a name they recognise in the breeding and want to be able to brag about it, but then end up over-horsing themselves. I've seen it happen so many times and it really annoys me as it's purely vanity.

 

[KautoStar1]

I am on a small yard with a couple of event riders. They are out competing weekly at 1&2* and one of them brings on youngsters for a 4* rider too. They are both professional riders, work hard and are driven, yet they are not overtly competitive. I just potter around with my irish draught (Ok I have been to RIHS and Blue Chip finals with him ) but I realised while I am pottering I am actually being inspired by their achievements, even though I show and they event. I am not brave and had a massive loss of confidence a few years ago. I could barely bring myself to get on the horse. the thought of galloping round a huge ring at Hickstead didn't even register with me as a goal. I certainly needed the motivation of a good trainer, but once I found that person, things went from zero to hero in a matter of months. And I always say to my eventing buddies, if you see me doing something wrong shout at me, don't let me flop along like a sack of spuds, kick me up the ar*e. I will never reach their levels, and I don't aspire too now, but I do aspire to improve as much as I can. I also love being a happy hacker too. Its all about finding a balance.

but I do think there are a lot of people who are over horsed and also have a distorted view of their own abilities, which means they keep bobbing along at intro level because the reality is their ability does not match that of their horse and never will.

 

[milliepops]

This is what I was getting at but more eloquently put! In our increasingly disposable / consumer driven society people quickly sell on horses they think don't look the part and buy what they think they 'ought' to have. Or the what they think will impress other people. Maybe they see a name they recognise in the breeding and want to be able to brag about it, but then end up over-horsing themselves. I've seen it happen so many times and it really annoys me as it's purely vanity.

It doesn't help when people continue to say that 'judges prefer' x, y or z type of horse
How many times do you hear people say that dressage judges prefer flashy warmbloods? I've never had a flashy warmblood and I've done OK in affiliated dressage - plenty of other people would say the same Not going to be national champion, but then very few people are going to be so that's not really a hardship :lol:

I don't find it annoying tbh, I find it a bit sad the right horse is such a life-enhancer and I feel sad that some people miss out on that!

 

[Swirlymurphy]

I think there's also something in the people they mix with. If you are a competition-minded type of rider, you are 'probably' friends with other competitive riders, you may be on a competition yard, it's like second nature to you. If you are on a yard full of less competitive riders, perhaps even less experienced riders, it must be much harder to push yourself out of your comfort zone and take it to the next level.

 

[puppystitch]

I don't find it annoying tbh, I find it a bit sad the right horse is such a life-enhancer and I feel sad that some people miss out on that!

You're so right. I think it's the attitude that annoys me, especially with respect to the less flashy horse that gets discarded to make room for the new one

There's one happening at my yard right now, the girl is selling her perfect 15.2 ish horse because she wants to do 'higher level dressage'. He's perfect for her and is definitely capable of learning, he finds lateral work easy, he's a good looking horse and is schooling nicely at home. She's very 'riding school' and he is is safe, honest and capable. now that he's up for sale she keeps commenting on sale adverts for big, young WBs and my heart breaks for her little guy at home

 

[Cortez]

Oooh! I'm really trying not to say this, but.....the general standard of riding, (and therefore obviously teaching), in the UK is just NOT VERY GOOD. There, I've said it, and I base this on 40+ years of teaching and training all over the world. I have qualifications from all over the world too (including BHS ones), and can benefit from a bit of an overview. Standards are nothing like they were even 25 years ago, when people were perhaps less competition orientated and more focused on hunting? I am amazed at what people seem not to know, even more amazed at how inneffectual they are. I have stopped teaching now, can't stand how little effort people are prepared to make, how they blame the horse/saddle/bit/diet/need-of-calmer/weather, etc. etc. ad infinitum, when in fact the cause is just plain ignorance and lack of a simple work ethic.

Sorry.

 

[teapot]

I think some of you need to go and see what goes on the lower end riding schools, then you might be less critical or seemingly like you're looking down your nose at the wider situation. I'll get on why in a moment.

I've never had my own horse, so I'm riding school trained, properly I might add. I had many many private lessons of if you cant do it in walk, you're not trotting' and on a massive variety of horses too, not your average RS plods, or group lessons were we fed off each other. The five years I spent there, both on a horse and on the ground was invaluable. I learnt SO much from people who were out at BE and BD every weekend, or who came back from a Lucinda Green clinic and your next lesson would resemble what they'd been jumping with her. We jumped on grass, we hacked, we had to belt out the scales of training as we rode leg yield away from the fence with no stirrups in the peeing December rain (riding is an outdoor sport remember!) or intensive grid work where you really did learn about landing on the correct leg otherwise your Irish cobby thing wasn't going to make the corner. We learnt stride lengths, differences in stride patterns, what was going on underneath us without mirrors to cheat, what an outline actually was, what a horse working correctly looked like and felt, and why it was important. We learnt to ride and to have faith in our ability. Probably the only thing I didn't do was school over proper xc fences.

Now in recent weeks I've judged two fun dressage tests at a riding school. The raw basics were there but none of them knew how to ride a good free walk on a loose rein, or ride their corners, or accuracy. These were both kids on own ponies and stiff older riding school ponies. I've seen the lessons they have, as I said basics are fine - stop and go, steering, basic position. That's it though. No direction, no advice, no open order, no warming up before heading towards a straight pole off a tight turn, lots of 'not doing the dressage, it's boring' etc etc. The kids and adults who ride there as they know no different, maybe they'll progress, maybe they won't. They go round and round and round and round... One of the mums watching said it was a pity they didn't have an adults dressage, even an Intro, as they'd love some actual feedback as she wanted to know why she was doing what she was being told to do. If they canter as group they have to immediately go canter to walk. None of them understand the importance of a direct transition, or in the case of one of the ponies, he's started doing canter to halt, whenever he wants and they don't understand why.

I think one of the biggest reasons you have what you're seeing OP is that the knowledge gaps between those who are out competing every weekend, the 'happy hackers' who imho can do what they like - if you start forcing people to jump a height they're not happy with, well that's only going to end one way - and those stuck in or go from dead end riding school to being owners of a pet not a horse without ever learning more than a,b,c are getting much bigger. More and more are ignorant of what riding is actually about, or what management actually entails. Throw in the costs of either having a horse, or having decent riding school lessons (£55 for a private anyone?) and the problem's only going to get worse.

Getting around an Intro is on my bucket list, yes that piddly 0.90m height. I regularly spectate at events, I know Intro is tiny compared to other levels, but for me that's not the point, it's not about proving I can get round a course of 1m10. It's about being at an event, doing three phases in one day, maybe even warming up alongside pros on their PN horses who I've looked up to for years and feeling like I've achieved something in my hobby. A hobby that I started at 14 and from an entirely non-horsey family. That may not seem like an achievement to you, but it bloody will be to me.

 

[milliepops]

Teapot, you sound like you've taken some of this thread personally but I absolutely don't think anyone is intending to run people down here :/
In fact what you're saying is common to lots of earlier posters. I think it's tragic that someone riding at a RS should want to ride in a show because they don't understand what they are doing or they need feedback. What they actually need is proper training! That's what they are supposedly paying for



I'd also say that many of us on here are self starters in the horse world with non horsey families, makes the sense of achievement when something goes right all the better.

 

[DressageCob]

I am a reformed unambitious rider.

When I was horse shopping I had just had surgery on my shoulder. I was looking for my first horse - something around 14.2-15.2 which had a nice personality, a cute face and would do hacking and my usual lessons (I stable at a riding school). I bought a 14.2hh driving horse, not really schooled under saddle, very nervous (chequered past) but a nice nature.

I still intended just to do lessons in the riding school and some hacking. However, a bloody good instructor, fabulous support system on the yard and a surprisingly able horse meant that over the years we went from getting 50% in intros to doing elementary dressage tests. We've gone to (and placed at) trailblazers champs in novice and elementary, Hickstead dressage masters champs, BD regionals etc. We've tried eventing (not for us!) show jumping, working hunter etc. All while having a great time together. So I am fairly ambitious.

The difficulty now is that elementary probably is the limit. My driving pony finds sideways difficult and he hasn't established the cadence necessary for the trickier movements. So do I become another unambitious rider who is happy staying at their established level, do I push this horse beyond what seems to be his natural limit or do I buy a more advanced dressage horse?

For me, I'm immensely proud to have got my horse to this level. I will be quite happy plodding around at the same level because it's a bloody big achievement for us to have managed to do that. What is an achievement for me might be nothing for others, but I don't care. Call me unambitious, whatever, doesn't matter. I'm happy doing what I do.

What is nothing for one person is massive for others. Who is anyone else to take that away? I have friends for whom it is a big deal just to canter (after injury, illness, age etc). We all have our own goals. It's not my place to criticise someone else for theirs, just as I would hope they wouldn't judge me for mine.

Although I probably will save up for pony number 2 to go to the higher levels of dressage.

 

[teapot]

Teapot, you sound like you've taken some of this thread personally but I absolutely don't think anyone is intending to run people down here :/ In fact what you're saying is common to lots of earlier posters. I think it's tragic that someone riding at a RS should want to ride in a show because they don't understand what they are doing or they need feedback. What they actually need is proper training! That's what they are supposedly paying for

This thread and the sportsmanship one seems to have a real issue with anyone who wants to stay at the lower levels. I have never understood by the horsey world is so bothered by people who are happy to stay at prelim dressage, or only aim at an Intro, or be a happy hacker? Everyone in life has different ambitions and comfort levels, is that such a bad thing? Besides which those who happily potter around an intro or a pre-novice year in year out fund the upper levels of BE.

You yourself comment on the differing levels of ambition on your yard. So what? If they're happy and the horses arn't welfare cases, is it really that much of an issue? Live and let live. The last thing anyone should ever wish on someone is to make them feel as though they should be out competing at a higher level than they're comfortable with.

Re training - that's my point. It's not nearly as accessible as it used to be so when someone eventually gets their own, they have no idea of what they could be doing or what they're meant to be doing. Maybe those on your yard haven't had the grounding you've had?

 

[Suziq77]

Wow PM - you've inspired a thread like the old days, before the forum changed and everyone gave up posting, thank you!! I miss the old days, when unaffiliated novice jumping started at 2' 6", but I can see that lots of the new entry level classes make the sport more inclusive for the less gung ho. I do agree about it seeming that scared, over horsed riders having the same lesson week n week out seem more prevalent and that makes me sad. I have no issue with anyone who simply has no desire to be competitive, but I would like to think that everyone who rides enjoys it and sadly that doesn't always look like the case.

Sit up, smile and kick on - there's no plan B

 

[eggs]

I don't have a problem with some-one who doesn't want to compete but I do have an issue with people who don't want to improve.

About 33 years ago when I was looking to buy my first horse after having had ponies before that my trainer was of the view that just about any horse was capable of doing a medium level dressage test and jumping a 3'3" course provided it didn't have any physical problem.

Maybe I'm wrong but it does seem to me that people are a lot more risk averse and afraid of failing than some years ago. Maybe that is why they do not want to push out of their comfort zone?

I think I am a very average rider but am now schooling at home at advanced medium and starting to crack tempi changes - why? - because my trainer (a list 1 judge) continues to inspire me to ride better and tells me to just crack on and not to get hung up about riding the perfect prelim test.

 

[milliepops]

This thread and the sportsmanship one seems to have a real issue with anyone who wants to stay at the lower levels. I have never understood by the horsey world is so bothered by people who are happy to stay at prelim dressage, or only aim at an Intro, or be a happy hacker? Everyone in life has different ambitions and comfort levels, is that such a bad thing? Besides which those who happily potter around an intro or a pre-novice year in year out fund the upper levels of BE.

You yourself comment on the differing levels of ambition on your yard. So what? If they're happy and the horses arn't welfare cases, is it really that much of an issue? Live and let live. The last thing anyone should ever wish on someone is to make them feel as though they should be out competing at a higher level than they're comfortable with.

My point and the posts I was answering were in response to the people on my yard making comments such as 'I'd never be good enough to do a Novice', 'My horse isn't good enough', 'I can't believe how far your horse has come, I could't never do that', 'we are only happy hacks', 'I would love to get a rosette at a show' and so on.
If i didn't give a toss whether I did competitions or not I don't think I'd make remarks like that. So that suggests they do have some kind of yearning for more than what they've done so far, but they lack the experience, knowledge, self belief and so on to know how to go about it. That's the thing, it's absolutely no skin off my nose whether they ride *at all* but it catches something of a raw nerve in me when I hear people saying stuff like that.

I think the sportsmanship thread is related to this one, but TO ME that thread came across much more about sour grapes from riders who weren't prepared to learn how to improve, wanting to kick perfectly eligible competition out of their classes out of some sense of unfairness. That is a race to the bottom. If you read back my responses on that, you'll see I am not suggesting people move on out of the confidence or competence levels before they are ready to do so, provided it's within the rules.

Re training - that's my point. It's not nearly as accessible as it used to be so when someone eventually gets their own, they have no idea of what they could be doing or what they're meant to be doing. Maybe those on your yard haven't had the grounding you've had?

we're all on the same page then, no? No, they haven't had my grounding. I'm not bigging myself up here, I'm just an average numpty that has dragged myself and my horses up but I have absorbed everything I can, and can now recognise good training and poor training.

They aren't going to get it either, under the current set up. But either they don't know what they are missing, or they do know, and they don't know how to access something better. Either way their training is doing them a disservice - otherwise, as in your riding school example, someone is making money for old rope and that is deeply depressing. Why go for lessons if you don't want to improve? It demonstrates some kind of ambition even if not competitive... so if they aren't progressing, I feel frustrated on their behalf.

ETA. I do think training is very accessible for those who have their own horses, less so for people without, perhaps, I dunno,I'm lucky to have had my own since childhood. Pony club, riding club, the affiliated bodies run training, plus a multitude of freelancers and major training centres do still exist. It's there. It's damn expensive, granted - I pay a lot more than your £55 for my lessons and I provide my own horse & transport it to my trainer! But *everything* with horses is expensive it's just another bill and good training pays for itself many times over.

 

[teapot]

ETA. I do think training is very accessible for those who have their own horses, less so for people without, perhaps, I dunno,I'm lucky to have had my own since childhood. Pony club, riding club, the affiliated bodies run training, plus a multitude of freelancers and major training centres do still exist. It's there. It's damn expensive, granted - I pay a lot more than your £55 for my lessons and I provide my own horse & transport it to my trainer! But *everything* with horses is expensive it's just another bill and good training pays for itself many times over.

You've been super lucky. Your definition of 'self starter' is somewhat different to mine though given your own pony as a kid, Pony Club etc, even if your family isn't horsey. Some people don't even get the access, let alone absorb the training you got/get. You can't criticise them if they've never had it. They may not know it even exists.

Yes trainers are expensive, and yes £55 is cheap to compared to some of the pros for a lesson, but do you really think £55/£60 for a riding school lesson is fair game? That's not accessible for all but a few these days. ETS looking at the yard I have in my mind's price list, a non member private at a peak times is £73! For someone earning a basic wage, that's an actual joke. That's not even an advanced lesson, that's the price you pay if you want to learn how to stop, go, and do rising trot. So you look at the other option, ie the yard I mention and you'll learn the basics for almost a quarter of that but have no idea what you're doing or why.

Some horse owners are utterly oblivious to the state of the riding school world these days and its knock on effect into the ownership world. One kid (with her own pony) asked me if you had to dressage to do three day eventing, and how come as it's so boring. The bubble that some of the next generation of horse owning adults live in is so small that it shouldn't be a surprise that someone with their own horse only knows the basics and enjoys bumbling around in their own happiness.

 

[Fiona]

This thread and the sportsmanship one seems to have a real issue with anyone who wants to stay at the lower levels. I have never understood by the horsey world is so bothered by people who are happy to stay at prelim dressage, or only aim at an Intro, or be a happy hacker? Everyone in life has different ambitions and comfort levels, is that such a bad thing? Besides which those who happily potter around an intro or a pre-novice year in year out fund the upper levels of BE.

You yourself comment on the differing levels of ambition on your yard. So what? If they're happy and the horses arn't welfare cases, is it really that much of an issue? Live and let live. The last thing anyone should ever wish on someone is to make them feel as though they should be out competing at a higher level than they're comfortable with.

I entirely agree teapot..

My hubby competed intermediate eventing 20 years ago on an ex racing TB.. However 10 years later, married, and owning a gorgeous but not terribly scopey ID mare whom he had owned from a 3yo and didn't want to sell, he was happy competing at PN and the odd novice. .. Now, pushing 50 and with a bad hip, and the horse in question being now 18yo, he is happy pottering and we will have great fun at local xc schooling on Sunday with mare and our 5yo son and his pony doing some of the 70-90cm stuff..

Perhaps in dressage, there is more of a case to be made for people to try the next level up rather than staying within comfort zone, but in the jumping disciplines I believe in live and let live.

Fiona

 

[milliepops]

You've been super lucky. Your definition of 'self starter' is somewhat different to mine though given your own pony as a kid, Pony Club etc, even if your family isn't horsey. Some people don't even get the access, let alone absorb the training you got/get. You can't criticise them if they've never had it. They may not know it even exists.

Yes trainers are expensive, and yes £55 is cheap to compared to some of the pros for a lesson, but do you really think £55/£60 for a riding school lesson is fair game? That's not accessible for all but a few these days. ETS looking at the yard I have in my mind's price list, a non member private at a peak times is £73! For someone earning a basic wage, that's an actual joke. Is it any wonder someone buys their own horse only knowing the basics and enjoys bumbling around at their own happiness.

hey, don't point the finger and make it something that it's not - I had a pony because I had nothing else, i bought her with my own money and the child support when I was 12 paid my farm livery of £5 per week. I went to pony club a handful of times when I convinced my farmer's daughter mate that we could go to PC if her dad could take us in the sheep trailer. Yes I was lucky to have that, don't think I don't believe it - it was everything I ever wanted and I sacrificed everything for it. Still do.

Ever since then I've learned everything I could watching and reading anything and everything. Helping out at yards for more rides. I never had my own transport until last October (I'm 34 now, lol!) and even that doesn't belong to me yet, it's over 20 years old and bought with a bank loan. My horses are one rescue and one freebie giveaway. Seriously, it makes me so frustrated when people make out that you need money and privilege to do well. you make the best of what you've got, if you want it enough.

And my point again, I'm not criticising anyone. Read it again. It makes me sad when people say they aren't good enough and never will be, when they are already paying out day after day for a horse and for lessons etc etc but not actually getting what they say they want.

 

[teapot]

Ever since then I've learned everything I could watching and reading anything and everything. Helping out at yards for more rides. I never had my own transport until last October (I'm 34 now, lol!) and even that doesn't belong to me yet, it's over 20 years old and bought with a bank loan. My horses are one rescue and one freebie giveaway. Seriously, it makes me so frustrated when people make out that you need money and privilege to do well. you make the best of what you've got, if you want it enough.

That's great but the days of free rides in exchange for helping on yards have gone, owners are far more 'protective' who they let ride their horses, sharing is no longer about helping someone out and keeping a horse exercised, it's getting someone else to pay most of the livery bill. No you don't need privilege but any sport that requires decent training costs money. In my area you have the choice of the cheap as chips riding school where you learn the basics, or you have the choice of the £73 a lesson one. You cannot say you don't need money to fork out £73 a week for one 45 minute lesson. If you're totally non-horsey you probably won't have mates who have something to hack, or a friend's friend with a spare schoolmaster. In order to improve you've got to ride more than once a week but the free/cheap opportunities have decreased massively.

I'm one of the lucky ones to get free rides because I know people and cannot complain at my new project, he's a dude (though 95% of people would look at him and go 'meh'). Most of which have all come through me giving up my own spare time for free to do various stuff for a charity and the yard we use for said charity. I've only managed that because I've been a student for so long.

And my point again, I'm not criticising anyone. Read it again. It makes me sad when people say they aren't good enough and never will be, when they are already paying out day after day for a horse and for lessons etc etc but not actually getting what they say they want.

The moaning about people saying they're not good enough etc - perhaps they lack confidence. Perhaps the next level seems an age away, perhaps it's poor training, maybe they don't know it's achievable, has anyone ever shown them a Novice BD test? Do they go and watch others compete? I don't know much about BD at all, but maybe they think it's a closed shop, I assume anyone can rock up and watch. Perhaps they need someone to give them a boost on the yard. Maybe they're afraid of the bitchiness if it all goes tits up. Fear of failure is just as crippling as not having any confidence. Maybe they're too afraid to ask for help.

There are so many reasons why someone won't or doesn't want to improve, I just don't see it as anyone else's business :smile3:

 

[milliepops]

That's great but the days of free rides in exchange for helping on yards have gone, owners are far more 'protective' who they let ride their horses, sharing is no longer about helping someone out and keeping a horse exercised, it's getting someone else to pay most of the livery bill. No you don't need privilege but any sport that requires decent training costs money. In my area you have the choice of the cheap as chips riding school where you learn the basics, or you have the choice of the £73 a lesson one. You cannot say you don't need money to fork out £73 a week for one 45 minute lesson. If you're totally non-horsey you probably won't have mates who have something to hack, or a friend's friend with a spare schoolmaster. In order to improve you've got to ride more than once a week but the free/cheap opportunities have decreased massively.

I'm one of the lucky ones to get free rides because I know people and cannot complain at my new project, he's a dude (though 95% of people would look at him and go 'meh'). Most of which have all come through me giving up my own spare time for free to do various stuff for a charity and the yard we use for said charity. I've only managed that because I've been a student for so long.

nothing will be handed to anyone on a plate, granted. Life's not fair and not everyone gets super opportunities. That's true too. I would love to have friends who have a yacht but that's not going to happen, lol.
They are out there though, you have to do a bit of legwork to find them. I know a few people who still do free rides in return for a bit of help on the yard as it happens. One gave me a massive leg up as a teenager and took me out event grooming. Everything like that in life requires a bit of luck and a bit of grit. This is quite a diversion from the thread though I don't see why wanting a contribution for a share horse is an issue either tbh, if you are using it, it's only fair to contribute one way or another.

I agree that riding lessons are expensive. Given that many seem to be going out of business I don't think it's profiteering, but horses cost money. Some people will be priced out of the market, which is sad, but like I mentioned I'm priced out of the yachting market :lol: tough luck for me!! I'll also never own my own house, but you know, it's about priorities innit.

The moaning about people saying they're not good enough etc - perhaps they lack confidence. Perhaps the next level seems an age away, perhaps it's poor training, maybe they don't know it's achievable, has anyone ever shown them a Novice BD test? Do they go and watch others compete? I don't know much about BD at all, but maybe they think it's a closed shop, I assume anyone can rock up and watch. Perhaps they need someone to give them a boost on the yard. Maybe they're afraid of the bitchiness if it all goes tits up. Fear of failure is just as crippling as not having any confidence. Maybe they're too afraid to ask for help.

There are so many reasons why someone won't or doesn't want to improve, I just don't see it as anyone else's business :smile3:

All of those probably apply. We're going round in circles, I'm saying their training is not empowering them. They are chucking money away week after week. It's not my business UNTIL they mention it to me and it makes me sad