A pondering on rehoming aggressive dogs

blackcob

blackcob

🖖
Joined
20 March 2007
Messages
13,005
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
A friend recently adopted a GSD bitch from a well known charity. She turned out to be dog-aggressive - severely so, so his plan to have another dog owner friend have her for daycare fell through. She had a fair bit of separation anxiety and couldn't be left for long without trashing the house.

About two months in she bit his father-in-law on the arm. It was completely unprovoked and pretty serious, it was a proper bite and she would not let go.

Unsurprisingly they returned her to the charity shortly after and we all assumed that, sadly, she would have been put to sleep. However, I have just seen that she is back up for adoption on their website, only now with the caveat that she must go to an experienced GSD home only. No mention of dog or human aggression at all. Oh, except that she needs a home with 'not many visitors coming and going.'

Is this right? :confused: Any ponderings welcome, I'm not sure what to think on this one.
 
Maybe they havent seen him being agressive and thought it was just an excuse for your friend to take him back? I suppose they can only judge what they see :o
 
Doesnt surprise me TBH BlackCob :( That is the one area where I differ from most rescue organisations - to me, if a dog has serious long term mental or physical health problems then I believe it is kinder to PTS than try and rehome/foster :(
 
I think that's what I'm getting at, Carey - it's a shame as the poor sod is obviously a very troubled dog but realistically, for a known biter, is there ever going to be a suitably experienced home?

I just can't quite get over the 'home with few visitors' thing, what an unrealistic expectation. :confused:
 
katielou_houston said:
I think your friend should have had the dog PTS not passed it back to a rescue where they really don't have much to go on.
Click to expand...

It was from one of the 'big' rescue charities, Katielou, and they'd already had help from one of their behaviourists and were bound by a contract to return the dog to them in that kind of situation.
 
My mother PTS an aggressive dog rather than rehoming (in fairness, rehoming wasn't really very popular back in those days anyway) and I would PTS my own male rather than rehome him and risk someone undoing all the work I have put into him and for him to go on and nail someone else's dog.

I couldn't live with myself if any dog of mine went on to seriously hurt another animal or human being after I had moved it on, or the though of it stuck in a scrap yard being a guard dog with little or no human contact or being used as a breeding machine, etc etc etc.
At least when they're dead, they can't be hurt or hurt anyone else.

Be honest, a GSD, shut away from people, dogs, only being able to be exercised at certain times and in certain places, not much of a life for a dog or much of an experience for a dog-owner.

I'm quite disappointed by the charity at a time when 'easy' dogs are finding it hard to get good homes, what potential rehomer would be prepared to put that much time and effort into a difficult dog.
 
CaveCanem said:
Be honest, a GSD, shut away from people, dogs, only being able to be exercised at certain times and in certain places, not much of a life for a dog or much of an experience for a dog-owner.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that seems to be pretty much what they're advocating - it's really not on, is it? I'm half tempted to speak up now I've had a bit of vindication, not sure what it would achieve though.

OH is now banging on about how he won't have a rescue for our next dog and it's confirmed his dislike of GSDs. :rolleyes:

I think the Many Tears system of having dogs in foster homes is the way forward, so the dog's temperament can be assessed in a real home environment.
 
Like I said in Cayla's questionnaire, it never entered into my head to pass otto's issues onto someone else. Throw him under a train, yes :D

I agree with Carey, some dogs should be PTS sleep, it's the kindest thing for everyone.
 
blackcob said:
OH is now banging on about how he won't have a rescue for our next dog and it's confirmed his dislike of GSDs. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

See, that's another thing, damaging the reputation of the breed, which, as another poster said in another thread "doesn't have a good reputation with children", well, I and a lot of other people have managed to survive living with the breed as a child/children, with all limbs intact.

Thinking about ONE dog, to the detriment of the rest of them :( people being put off saving a perfectly lovely one in future :(
 
The thing is I can almost understand his point of view, if a big name charity can pass on a - I'm going to use the word dangerous - dog, then who can you trust?

Not that I'll pay any attention to his whinging, obviously, and I've pointed out that we've already taken on one totally unknown quantity. Dax could have murdered us both in our sleep that first night. :p

But yes, it does nothing for the reputation and that is a great shame. Friend was specifically looking for a GSD but had never had one before.
 
It depends.
As a family we had a food/strange men aggressive dog (handy when people came barging in without permission..) who was only PTS at the grand age of 15, having bitten my mother over food, and not let go-that was senility combined with previous aggression.
I have seen on animal cops and adult male rottweiler. it was aggressive to be caught-fair enough. Then in its kennel the agent was stroking him, all of a sudden, he bit him (left teeth marks). Two months later or some such, they revisited him in an open field. the agent was simply sat there, the dog ran up and bit him. they said they would continue to work with the dog. I do accept that had the dog wanted to do more damage he could have. so for a rottweiler.. it was a minor bite but it lef tthe man needing hospital care (proper bite wound) and to have done it so many times unprovoked, I think that dog was at the end of its possible chances.
I also know a fair few collies doing agility who will decide they don't like one person, and properly go for them despite being softies to everyone else. Or who will be nervy round all but their owner. They sound similar to this GSD, but are (in general I hasten to add) owned by very dog savvy people, exercised hard and kept well, so they tend not to get the chance to bite. But they have serious potential to do harm in the wrong hands. A fair few are rescues, and nobody else would have them.
It is hard to know without knowing why he bit the father, was it unprovoked or did it trigger something? As I couldn't have a collie, they hate me (!) but my friends can, that same dog that if I went in its kennel would bite me, would roll over and ask for a tummy tickle off them.
I would probably give this dog an in depth behavioural assessment. It may be that a lonely 60yr old ish might love him, but I would also set a time limit so he wasn't stuck in kennels.. Again, hard to know without being there.
Just my musings on that.
 
Don't let this put you off GSDs. I have had re-homed two GSDs over the years. The first was a bitch from Battersea Dogs Home and she was an amazing dog. She was beautifully trained, she would even leave the room if you were eating.

The second was a long coated dog we re-homed after he was offered to a friend as a farm dog but she didn't want him as he was too boisterous! I made the mistake of telling my husband. It was a couple of months after we had lost the bitch and I came home from work the next day and my husband and gone to get him. He had been a yard dog or a pub dog, not sure which. He wrecked the house at first as he bounced of the walls if someone knocked on the door but gradually he turned out to be the best dog ever. He was fantastic with children. My husband was so heart broken when we lost him that he won't have another.

I would also add that I agree that an aggressive dog should be PTS. Friend had one of her staffies PTS last week as it was aggressive with other dogs and was getting progressively worse and attacked one of her own dogs. She had done everything she could for this dog and ran her life around it. No holidays as she daren't leave it with anyone and she walked it separately from her other dogs. She had to keep it locked up when her young grand daughter visited as she didn't trust it. It wasn't worth the risk and I think she done the right thing.
 
I really am a bit torn on this subject. I got my 1.5 year old collie x husky from a very well known rescue and nothing was said about him really just that he needed a good home, he was beautiful. the day i picked him up he was sitting on my lap outside and growling at the other dogs walking by....sign?! i ignored it. bought him home, he was prefect loving and sweet. a few days later when walking him he started going mad at other dogs, no matter how far away it was like a switch went he went mental; he attacked anything between him and that dog including my legs / arms etc. but he was my first dog. i took him to an agility run by a very well known trainer to try and socialise him, dogs running round barking obvs made him worse... the trainer threw him to the ground and hit him etc. she then said hed never change and he should be put down asap. i couldnt have that. Skidda very badly attacked numerous dogs; and yeh he probably should have been put down he did real damage it took 4 men to get him off one dog. but i couldnt, i put everything into him; i walked dogs so he came with me, he met different dogs everyday i realised that aslong as you guided his head around to the back of the new dog e.g they didnt meet face to face he would be ok. by about 5 he was 90% trust worthy, (i knew "his hated type" which was big, in your face fully male dogs) his recall was perfect away from other dogs whether we knew them or not. people started using him as the dog to invite round when their puppy is too young to go out yet. when i baby sat we walked him and the 3yr old could hold his lead. obvs i never ever left him off lead when meeting new dogs, i was then given a fully male out of control giant choc lab; exactly what he'd have hated; he loved him. 6 months later the labs owner then took him back as id fully trained him (another rant!!) i then got an 8 week old puppy; Skidda loved him they slept together etc. Skidda was pts about 8 weeks ago, ive never seen so many people upset, mums were ringing me saying how their children were crying hysterically coz theyd been told about skidda and still now people ask where he is. He was my first dog and i loved him more then anything. but i love now having had murphy from 8 weeks a dog that i can trust 100% i know his training etc. so no i dont approve of what the rescue center did, but skidda was amazing.

Very well done if you read this far! didnt intend to write this much!! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the musings Susie - the collie thing especially is ringing true for me, I know a great number of them who are quite neurotic and are only trustworthy with their owner. Again, many of those were rescues or unhandled farm dogs.

It's always the same high-drive breeds that suffer - as you point out, the productive ones are owned by breed-savvy people and given sufficient stimulation and work.

I don't think the bloke could have offered sufficient stimulation for this dog; there was a big mixed pack of dogs waiting for her for 'daycare' but when she couldn't even be in the same room as them she ended up spending an awful lot of time alone or with the same two people, which was only going to foster any guarding issues. His OH was available to walk her in the day but in all honesty is a bit flakey and couldn't handle her if she saw another dog anyway.

I don't know the exact circumstances surrounding the bite but the bloke's OH was in the room and I get the impression that she might have been guarding her?

I just... I dunno, I guess I'm disappointed in the rescue for not going with the lonely 60 year old option and instead sending her out to a young couple who work and who have a constant stream of new people in and out of the house.
 
I guess after thinking about this it depends.

I agree that a totally out of control or human agressive dog should be PTS.

However I think that if its a problem that could truly be sorted by an experienced person and the rescue has that sort of person available then its probably worth a shot.
 
Sealine - definitely not going to put me off though it might take us some time to find the right dog. OH is now saying that he wants a collie, not sure he realises that they are equally driven and demanding. :o
 
I have to say one dogs behaviour in one persons hands can be totally different in anothers persons literally!

Im always baffled at the rescues that feel easy rehoming straight out of a kennel, as dogs IMO can not be thoroughly assessed in varied scenarios before going into a home and therefor you cannot determine best the type of home they need.
We work with dogs with aggression issues with humans and dogs and we are very careful to place them in ome that are capable of following our instruction as to how to manage the dog (would not include telling them not to have guests over) :rolleyes::D
I have kept the bull lurcher and my pointer because of their be:Dhaviour when handed to me, and I have worked to hard to break their bad behaviours to pass to to someone who will undo it all (so very easy to do) same with shaun the DDBx, he would have stayed had I not found the perfect and highly sensible home he got (I got damn lucky there) you will also get people who will say "I dont mind I will do whatever it takes to keep up the work with this dog" others would collapse at the smallest hurdle.

Dogs that have serious aggression issues and no work has been done and they have ignorantly been handed on, then that really is bang out of order, if that shepherd has been placed back in a kenel and not taken to a "home environment to be assessed" then to hand to back on experience or not is wrong. are they saying experienced in "aggression" or experienced with GSD's because that is 2 different things IMO, we sometimes ask for experience in "larger breeds or a particualr breed" to best understand their breed traits, not because they are aggressive.
 
blackcob said:
Sealine - definitely not going to put me off though it might take us some time to find the right dog. OH is now saying that he wants a collie, not sure he realises that they are equally driven and demanding. :o
Click to expand...

In my experience, collies are the worst for that kind of thing! :eek: I'm sure there are lovely ones, but most that I meet have 'issues' of some kind:o
 
A similar thing happened to my sister.
She got a 'Labrador' from a well known rescue. (I say 'Labrador in the loose sense of the word because it was clearly now pure lab, looked like a rhodey without the ridge)
One day she was out in the school arranging some jumps and he ran from the other end of the school, flew at her and pinned her by the leg. Managed to get him off and he tried to do it again. Luckily she had thick trousers on and the YO was near by and helped.

He was taken back to the rescue that day (bound by contract again)



next day on the website for rehoming........and suitable for a home with kids apparently! :(

This is the dog that makes me think twice about rescues. But I know lots of lovely rescues, just shakes you up when that kind of thing happens.

I don't understand why if the rescue centres are so full, they keep proven biters (unprovoked) and even lie about there history, when there are so many gorgeous dogs getting put down due to no space :S

Its scary the damage a dog can do :(

Elle
x
 
Spudlet said:
In my experience, collies are the worst for that kind of thing! :eek: I'm sure there are lovely ones, but most that I meet have 'issues' of some kind:o
Click to expand...

Oh I know, lots of them are so needy! I can't stand simpering squirmy-bum dogs, the constant attention from a collie would drive me mad. :p

His lordship has been influenced by our friend the husky lady who has a rescue collie as a companion for her husky; in all fairness he is a brilliant little thing but thinks he is a husky, up to and including howling instead of barking. :D
 
CAYLA said:
are they saying experienced in "aggression" or experienced with GSD's because that is 2 different things IMO, we sometimes ask for experience in "larger breeds or a particualr breed" to best understand their breed traits, not because they are aggressive.
Click to expand...

"(Dog) is a beautiful long haired sheperd who is looking for experienced sheperd owners. With the people she knows she is a loving and affectionate girl who has lots of energy and enjoys her walks. (Dog) is very loyal girl who does get quite protective of her owners and the house so ideally she is looking for a quiet home where there aren't too many visitor's.

Type of home needed: (Dog) is looking for an adult home with experienced sheperd owners."

Very deviously worded, I think. I can understand saying 'breed home only' completely but they seem to be saying it for reasons of her aggression?

They also seem to have treated our friend's experience as a free foster session to find out what she's really like as this is a completely different description to the one she had when they got her!
 
CaveCanem said:
BC you might not want a working line GSD :p
Click to expand...

Nah, I want one of them crippled show types so it can't run away too fast. :p

Dax is a simpering squirmy-bum to new people but loses interest veeeery quickly and switches off totally in the house, she's the other extreme - can't I get something in the middle?!
 
This is something I am at cross purposes with the gsd rescue I homecheck for. I am afraid I believe if a dog has serious aggression problems they should be pts. The breed has enough problems with a bad public image without dogs like this being placed in homes, particularly when there are so many dogs without problems looking for homes. I half expect to get kicked off their volunteers list because I have also queried the merit in spending a fortune on treating seriously ill dogs. I'm a hard bitch!:rolleyes:
 
CareyR said:
Doesnt surprise me TBH BlackCob :( That is the one area where I differ from most rescue organisations - to me, if a dog has serious long term mental or physical health problems then I believe it is kinder to PTS than try and rehome/foster :(
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm with you on this one. As with human-damaged horses, there comes a point where their lives only get worse as they get blamed for the way they behave, and treated accordingly and pushed from home to home. This dog could never be trusted, as it can never feel safe within itself, and with the right trigger will bite again.
 
My old dog was human aggressive, as is my horse. My horse would never be sold on the open market - only ever to an approved home who had proved themselves able to deal with him. Or he'd be shot. Same with Baba, he would have been PTS if someone who knew him couldn't have taken him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top