Adv Med - established changes ?

[Muddywellies]

My query is aimed at Adv Med riders and above. When you started AM, did you have established changes? Or did you just stick your neck out and give it a go anyway, hoping that in time the changes improve ?

 

[onemoretime]

My mare started Adv Med this year. The right change wasn't amazing at first but we just went for it. She has improved amazingly and now her right change is better than her left very often. She was 2nd in her last class with 66.47% which we were very pleased with. Just go for it and keep working at it.

 

[millitiger]

I wouldn't wait until they are perfect.

For me, if you're getting them more often than not in training in some fashion and they aren't stressing the horse out, I'd go for it.

 

[ihatework]

The changes stopped me from doing AM, but only because my mare became so emotional about it that it impacted subsequent movements and would have been counter-productive.

If it was just the change affected and it was just a bit rubbish I most definitely would have stepped up

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Does depend on the horse and how it affects the movements either side, but we definitely just went for it! I didn’t mind a duff score and Topaz was a mare that needed regular outings so we just cracked on, felt ever so grown up and dressage’y .

Still could have the odd off change at advanced/ PSG if I didn’t ride properly and set her up, plus there was no where to hide in the tempis!

 

[Daiquiri]

If they're not stressing him out and it's more a case of they sometimes don't happen when you ask I'd take a bash at it. As a one horse owner new to the level my view was you never know what's going to happen, the horse might break tomorrow so you might as well make the most of every opportunity.

I still remember one test when we were new to the level, I'd had beautiful but unwanted changes in the medium test beforehand and then totally fluffed them when I actually asked for them in the advanced medium. Just dug out that test sheet for nostalgia, we got a 4 and a 1 for them! He later went on to get 7s for them at PSG so no harm done really.

 

[daffy44]

Sorry to go against the grain, but personally I make sure the changes are really confident and established before competing at am.

But I can understand not waiting, of course it depends on the horse, but if the horse isnt going to be stressed by a messy or missed change, then there is no harm in giving it a go. It also depends what you are want to achieve by doing advanced medium, if you want to test the water with no pressure then try, but if you want a certain mark/qualification etc, then its a waste of time going out without established changes.

It also depends on which test you do, you can do an easy test with only two changes as a starting point, and then the changes are not hugely relevant to the marks. But if you do one of the higher tests with several changes in it, then they are far more significant in the marks.

 

[Cortez]

Depends on whether you are planning on actually being competitive, or just in it for the experience. Personally I only enter a competition if I think I could win it. If it's for the training opportunity then I go HC.

 

[blitznbobs]

Yes for me they needed to be we’ll established…

 

[hock]

Don’t wait crack on. AM classes are full of horse rider combos that aren’t quite there yet! Training against the wall helped me!

 

[Cortez]

Don’t wait crack on. AM classes are full of horse rider combos that aren’t quite there yet!

Well, they shouldn’t be.

 

[hock]

Well, they shouldn’t be.

Opinions are like bum holes, we all got one

 

[MissTyc]

Don’t wait crack on. AM classes are full of horse rider combos that aren’t quite there yet! Training against the wall helped me!

And that's assuming the classes are full!
First AM I did, I fluffed up a few things out of brain drain, but as there were only two in the class I still felt like a winner

 

[hock]

And that's assuming the classes are full!
First AM I did, I fluffed up a few things out of brain drain, but as there were only two in the class I still felt like a winner

Exactly! My dad used to play tennis and if he didn’t win he used to say he came second!

 

[Cortez]

In my opinion/bum hole, competitions are different from playgrounds. I don’t feel the need to explain what a competition is, or maybe it is different in the UK? Advanced Medium is a level that really shouldn’t contain horses and riders that can’t do the things that are required in the test: surely the whole and entire point of doing a test is to prove that you can? If you need further training then do it (the training, I mean, not the test, obvs).

 

[hock]

Bum hole !! For me it’s horses for courses and some people are driven by needing the test to be perfect and other people can get very stressed and fixated on a movement that’s not quite there. I agree a dressage test isn’t a playground but BD is about encouraging horse and rider combinations and I think if you can hit the 60 ish percent in a test you’ve earned you’re place while you work on stuff.

 

[Cortez]

Bum hole !! For me it’s horses for courses and some people are driven by needing the test to be perfect and other people can get very stressed and fixated on a movement that’s not quite there. I agree a dressage test isn’t a playground but BD is about encouraging horse and rider combinations and I think if you can hit the 60 ish percent in a test you’ve earned you’re place while you work on stuff.

But it's a COMPETITION, which in theory means that you are there to compete, which in my mind would entail having the ability, at least in theory, to win. If you're just there for the jolly then you should either be at a training clinic or hors de concours. There are always no-hopers I suppose, but they can be excused as deluded. Deliberately entering a competition for which you are unprepared is madness, or is this the good old British having a bash/laugh principle in action? Being of an extremely competitive nature it's something that I find particularly bemusing.

 

[MissTyc]

In my opinion/bum hole, competitions are different from playgrounds. I don’t feel the need to explain what a competition is, or maybe it is different in the UK? Advanced Medium is a level that really shouldn’t contain horses and riders that can’t do the things that are required in the test: surely the whole and entire point of doing a test is to prove that you can? If you need further training then do it (the training, I mean, not the test, obvs).

I kind of agree, in the sense that progression to the next level should only occur when performing well at the current level in competition and training to the higher level (at the very least to the next level, if not a much higher level) at home.

However, there are some things that some people and horses are just not great at, and I don't think that should be the limiting factor for entering a competition or not. I would maybe feel differently I am sure if I wasn't riding and progressing for fun. But the OP is clearly aware of the limitation, and if they compete for fun and the entry is not a total fantasy (i.e. all other moves are good to very good at least), then I don't think it's treating the completion as a playground or wasting the judge's time.

 

[Fanatical]

Depends if you want to be competitive. If the changes are clearly not established and not performed it will effect your collective marks as well as the mark for the movement.

 

[ihatework]

But it's a COMPETITION, which in theory means that you are there to compete, which in my mind would entail having the ability, at least in theory, to win. If you're just there for the jolly then you should either be at a training clinic or hors de concours. There are always no-hopers I suppose, but they can be excused as deluded. Deliberately entering a competition for which you are unprepared is madness, or is this the good old British having a bash/laugh principle in action? Being of an extremely competitive nature it's something that I find particularly bemusing.

I get what you are saying but actually for more amateur riders ring experience is generally needed before they are in a position to win.

In the UK each level has 3 different brackets - when entering a new level us duffers can goi in at bronze level, at that level it’s more than possible to win with a missed change or two. But honestly it’s not necessarily about the winning, it’s about the mileage for some of us.

That said, I do think you need a reasonable chance of pulling off the vast majority of the test in a sufficiently good manner! I mean if you can do a change at home, even if sometimes it’s late or together then I see no reason not to have a go in public. However if it impacts the horse negatively getting it wrong then it’s best not to go there until you are more on track.

Just my bum hole speaking

 

[Cortez]

I would have thought that by the time someone is competing at Advanced Medium they would have had sufficient time in an arena not to need "ring experience"? Just a grumpy old retired competitor who took it very seriously.

 

[ihatework]

I would have thought that by the time someone is competing at Advanced Medium they would have had sufficient time in an arena not to need "ring experience"? Just a grumpy old retired competitor who took it very seriously.

Actually, when stepping up, a lot of amateurs do need a bit of ring practice at the next level.
This is where it's useful to understand different perspectives.
A hardened pro isn't going to want to go into a ring and show up training holes.
But for a lot of amateurs it's a part of life/learning.

 

[hock]

I would have thought that by the time someone is competing at Advanced Medium they would have had sufficient time in an arena not to need "ring experience"? Just a grumpy old retired competitor who took it very seriously.

I kind of like grumpy and old .. I’m also nailing it . And I agree about going out to win for me personally but it doesn’t suit everyone, horses for courses and all that!

 

[hock]

Actually, when stepping up, a lot of amateurs do need a bit of ring practice at the next level.
This is where it's useful to understand different perspectives.
A hardened pro isn't going to want to go into a ring and show up training holes.
But for a lot of amateurs it's a part of life/learning.

You put it very eloquently! The next level up is always a shock as it’s not just harder movements but also a sharper and quicker change of movements which I think helps improve the level below!

 

[quizzie]

I'm interested by the different tone of responses on this thread versus the one about a horse going introverted in an arena, where most advised going out and working through it, with "sacrificial" tests if needed.
I embarrassed myself once by having a horse that was showing a good reliable change at home, but did have a tendency to back off a little in the arena.....took him to his first AM with every expectation of a reasonable "clear round" to find that he claimed he had no idea what I was talking about, and totally failed to execute a single flying change in the arena....the only solution was repeated outings until he got over his "shyness". Arena hire/more schooling etc didn't work!

 

[Roxylola]

I'm not sure where I come down in this debate, and while I've trained at the level I haven't competed, so no real clout to my opinion.
However, it is a competition but, it is also a test and while you compete to be competitive, anyone who's been to school will be well familiar with the idea that a "test" is something you do to check learning, to gauge progress etc (at least so we were all told)
And being able to do your timestables in a familiar classroom where you have time to work through etc is very different to a silent hall under exam conditions.
And equally, you might know all your tables but struggle occasionally with 6*7, in a test you might get it right, or wrong, but there will be 50 other questions which you may be confident with. If that's the case you are "exam ready"
Or, when I took my driving test I was still struggling with my parallel park. I was a competent driver I just couldn't park well. As it happens I actually passed with one minor - I stalled leaving the test centre. So on the day my performance was up to scratch with one part that needed work. Over time my parking has got better and better, I just needed practice but it was overall good enough to pass the test although would never have won a competition (it might now after 20 years on a terraced street)

 

[Snowfilly]

Showjumping and cross country you need to be established before you go up a level. There’s safety and not over facing the horse to consider.

Dressage, what’s the worst that can happen? You ask for changes, they don’t happen, you get a low score on that movement and the collective.

Go for it. If you’re an average one horse owner, you may never get another chance to ride this level. Do it while the horse is fit and you’re able, know that you did it once.

And then you can go home and work on the bits that didn’t happen and if the stars are right, you’ll be able to do it again but better.

 

[humblepie]

On the basis of only competing if you are likely to win, then most of the ones at what used to be Olympia shouldn't have turned up as they aren't ready to beat the top three. That is slightly tongue in cheek and I am a competitive person but I also like to compete in strong competition. We went out medium before the half pass was fully established (mainly because I was new to it as well as the horse and would forget what I was doing) and he won but for me it was getting the experience at that level and an achievement with an ex racehorse to be out at that level.

 

[daffy44]

Bum hole !! For me it’s horses for courses and some people are driven by needing the test to be perfect and other people can get very stressed and fixated on a movement that’s not quite there. I agree a dressage test isn’t a playground but BD is about encouraging horse and rider combinations and I think if you can hit the 60 ish percent in a test you’ve earned you’re place while you work on stuff.

I have a slightly different perspective/bum hole, as I said in my original post I totally understand why people go out to compete without everything fully established, even though personally I want everything very confident and established before I'd ask for it in competition.

I am not very competitive, its training that motivates me, far more then competing, and I dont go out just to try and win etc. But I feel its very unfair on my horse to ask it to do anything I havent fully prepared it for, I always want my horses to have happy, positive experiences especially in competition. Flying changes can be quite a tricky thing for some horses, and even when they are good at home, the pressure of being away from home can cause them to go wrong. Therefore I want them rock solid and confident at home, doing a few tempis etc, before I would ask for them away from home, so when the horse does its first few ad meds it feels easy for the horse, and its confidence can grow with each outing.

 

[Muddywellies]

In my opinion/bum hole, competitions are different from playgrounds. I don’t feel the need to explain what a competition is, or maybe it is different in the UK? Advanced Medium is a level that really shouldn’t contain horses and riders that can’t do the things that are required in the test: surely the whole and entire point of doing a test is to prove that you can? If you need further training then do it (the training, I mean, not the test, obvs).

But you can train and train at home. At some point you have to go and do that in a 'competition' environment and sure as eggs is eggs, you'll fluff it up first few times. Take a lot of attempts in competition environments to produce a decent test. So applying your theory, how is one supposed to get competition experience?