Adv Med - established changes ?

[Palindrome]

And this sort of attitude is why dressage is seen as snobby. It is also why less and less places are putting on classes for the higher levels. Because people are not even willing to try because of attitudes like yours and class numbers are dropping to the point its just not worth putting them on at all.

For me a dressage test it not about the competition. It’s about checking how we are progressing, getting an independent view on it.

Would you do the same show jumping though?
Take your horse that has only jumped 90 cm at home to a Newcomers for example?
If not, why?

It's not fair to the horse to ask them to produce work that they can't produce at home/they are not fit to do.

I have given a bash at competing when the horse wasn't ready and had only been ridden once in an arena, but that was low level w/t/c and the horse's first show, I think when going into the higher levels you need to have the horse more prepared. It's not being a snob, it's just being fair to the horse as your are asking him to perform advanced work.

 

[rara007]

But this isn’t that, it’s taking your horse that’s schooling at 100 but still gets the odd pole down, to it’s first 100. When you can chose a generous course builder and do it after the 90.

 

[conniegirl]

Would you do the same show jumping though?
Take your horse that has only jumped 90 cm at home to a Newcomers for example?
If not, why?

It's not fair to the horse to ask them to produce work that they can't produce at home/they are not fit to do.

I have given a bash at competing when the horse wasn't ready and had only been ridden once in an arena, but that was low level w/t/c and the horse's first show, I think when going into the higher levels you need to have the horse more prepared. It's not being a snob, it's just being fair to the horse as your are asking him to perform advanced work.

I dont jump at all so no i wouldn’t.

However it is not the same at all.
You are not asking a horse to do something it is not fit for.
The horse is already doing well at Medium and the step up to the Easier AM’s does not require more fitness.

This is more like asking your showjumper to step up to the next class up, having done well at its current level and been schooling the new level at home. Or asking it to jump a wall at competition having schooled walls at home but never having done them in competition.

 

[Cortez]

I dont jump at all so no i wouldn’t.

However it is not the same at all.
You are not asking a horse to do something it is not fit for.
The horse is already doing well at Medium and the step up to the Easier AM’s does not require more fitness.

This is more like asking your showjumper to step up to the next class up, having done well at its current level and been schooling the new level at home. Or asking it to jump a wall at competition having schooled walls at home but never having done them in competition.

That is not true at all. What Adv. Medium requires is far greater balance, and that takes core and stay muscles that are simply not taxed in the same way in the exercises asked for in Medium movements. The standard advice for people wanting to be competitive is to be working well at home at the level ABOVE the one you are competing in.

 

[Palindrome]

I dont jump at all so no i wouldn’t.

However it is not the same at all.
You are not asking a horse to do something it is not fit for.
The horse is already doing well at Medium and the step up to the Easier AM’s does not require more fitness.

This is more like asking your showjumper to step up to the next class up, having done well at its current level and been schooling the new level at home. Or asking it to jump a wall at competition having schooled walls at home but never having done them in competition.

I guess it is a matter of opinion then, but I have always seen/heard that when you don't get changes it is because the canter is not good/collected enough, to me more collection requires more fitness.

 

[GoldenWillow]

Would you do the same show jumping though?
Take your horse that has only jumped 90 cm at home to a Newcomers for example?
If not, why?

It's not fair to the horse to ask them to produce work that they can't produce at home/they are not fit to do.

I have given a bash at competing when the horse wasn't ready and had only been ridden once in an arena, but that was low level w/t/c and the horse's first show, I think when going into the higher levels you need to have the horse more prepared. It's not being a snob, it's just being fair to the horse as your are asking him to perform advanced work.

As someone who has only ridden at low levels, and infrequently at that, at dressage but has more experience show jumping I don't think the two are comparable. Taking a horse out at Newcomers when only jumped 90 at home risks so much more than getting a 6.5 and comment of needs more shown when your medium trot isn't great because you've ridden like a lemon! Over facing, stopping, getting poles between legs etc can easily ruin a horse and the liklehood of injury for both is greater, getting a poor mark for a movement has no impact on the horse.

I always wanted to be schooling higher consistently at home with jumping, 1.20 was my mares limit schooling but out competing my limit was 1.05 allowing for jump offs going up to 1.10-1.15. Dressage I'm happy to compete at the (low!) level I'm working at at home unless there was something in the test that would upset the horse. It's not about asking a horse to do something they can't produce at home or are not fit to do, to me that is a totally separate thing and I agree is certainly not fair to the horse but I don't think doing a dressage test with one movement that may be a bit inconsistent is that. Attempting a test where the horse can't actually perform the movement at all or has done no training at that level comes into the unfair to horse category.

 

[Muddywellies]

That is not true at all. What Adv. Medium requires is far greater balance, and that takes core and stay muscles that are simply not taxed in the same way in the exercises asked for in Medium movements. The standard advice for people wanting to be competitive is to be working well at home at the level ABOVE the one you are competing in.

Have you actually seen AM85 ? It is a medium test with 2 changes. It doesn't require 'far' greater balance. Indeed, it requires a little more but definitely not far more. In none of my posts have i mentioned being competitive at all. I never go out to be competitive, other than trying to improve my own scores. If I approached my dressage your way, me and my little native would be still at prelim. After years and years of plugging away at this, the best training I can afford, a varied workload incl lots of hacking, hillwork, pole work, water treadmill, 6 weekly physio, daily turnout in beautiful fields, even in winter, I can assure you that my horse is strong and balanced enough to deal with AM. We just need to perfect it and gain more experience in the arena at that level, where tension always creeps in and affects performance. We are gaining mid to upper 60's at medium so it's time to dip our toes in at AM. We'll just be pretty rubbish for a while.

 

[Cortez]

Well, the best of luck!

 

[conniegirl]

Well, the best of luck!

Hopefully she wont come up against nasty snobby judges who think she is a no hoper and shouldnt be there

 

[Palindrome]

Have you actually seen AM85 ? It is a medium test with 2 changes. It doesn't require 'far' greater balance. Indeed, it requires a little more but definitely not far more. In none of my posts have i mentioned being competitive at all. I never go out to be competitive, other than trying to improve my own scores. If I approached my dressage your way, me and my little native would be still at prelim. After years and years of plugging away at this, the best training I can afford, a varied workload incl lots of hacking, hillwork, pole work, water treadmill, 6 weekly physio, daily turnout in beautiful fields, even in winter, I can assure you that my horse is strong and balanced enough to deal with AM. We just need to perfect it and gain more experience in the arena at that level, where tension always creeps in and affects performance. We are gaining mid to upper 60's at medium so it's time to dip our toes in at AM. We'll just be pretty rubbish for a while.

So it was just humble bragging about going AM, you didn't want actual people opinions

 

[Palindrome]

Hopefully she wont come up against nasty snobby judges who think she is a no hoper and shouldnt be there

Yes, nasty judges ... judging.
More seriously, Cortez didn't write that OP was a no hoper, you have extrapolated a bit.

 

[Cortez]

Hopefully she wont come up against nasty snobby judges who think she is a no hoper and shouldnt be there

Well I hope she nails those changes and produces a lovely, calm, balanced test that truly demonstrates the qualities that are looked for at Advanced Medium, what I'm always hoping when a rider heads down centre line.

 

[millitiger]

So it was just humble bragging about going AM, you didn't want actual people opinions

I don't think it's a humble brag and actually that's a bit mean to say.
I think it's fine to check you aren't going to be the only one who might mess a change up in a test which is what the question was- and it looks like half the posters never score below a 9 and half of us wing it a bit more

Hopefully it's given OP the confidence to have a crack at it

 

[blitznbobs]

I don't think it's a humble brag and actually that's a bit mean to say.
I think it's fine to check you aren't going to be the only one who might mess a change up in a test which is what the question was- and it looks like half the posters never score below a 9 and half of us wing it a bit more

Hopefully it's given OP the confidence to have a crack at it

I saw Charlotte fry mess up a change on glamourdale - it happens to the elite too and anyone can have an off day - I have had a horse explode at x and do a fabulous desplay of airs above the ground … we all have bad days - but that isn’t what was asked tbh

 

[Muddywellies]

Gosh isnt it interesting, the opinions people form of you when you post on here. I am terribly lacking in self confidence , in riding, work, life itself. Yet my post has been totally mis-construed as being 'humble bragging'. I've read some incredibly encouraging comments from some very kind people on here and I'm very grateful for that. As for the humble bragging comment, and the indirect suggestion that people like me are no-hopers, I'll try to rise above them

 

[Cortez]

Gosh isnt it interesting, the opinions people form of you when you post on here. I am terribly lacking in self confidence , in riding, work, life itself. Yet my post has been totally mis-construed as being 'humble bragging'. I've read some incredibly encouraging comments from some very kind people on here and I'm very grateful for that. As for the humble bragging comment, and the indirect suggestion that people like me are no-hopers, I'll try to rise above them

I would like to emphasize that at no point have I said you are a no-hoper; I've no idea what level of hope you contain, I've never seen you compete. What I have rather forlornly tried to convey is some insight into what your likelihood of success is given your description of your level of training. I sincerely hope that you will go out there and nail those changes. Just saying "you do you" is really not all that much use in training horses, although I suppose it does bathe you in a comfortable glow of support.

 

[conniegirl]

Yes, nasty judges ... judging.
More seriously, Cortez didn't write that OP was a no hoper, you have extrapolated a bit.

There is a big difference between judging and being nasty.
Constructive criticism is great. Calling people no hopers and being hateful towards people who do not have the same aims as you is not great.

I would hate to be judged by Cortez as their attitude towards people who are less than perfect seems to be particularly spiteful and now they are attempting to backtrack

 

[Cortez]

There is a big difference between judging and being nasty.
Constructive criticism is great. Calling people no hopers and being hateful towards people who do not have the same aims as you is not great.

I would hate to be judged by Cortez as their attitude towards people who are less than perfect seems to be particularly spiteful and now they are attempting to backtrack

See my tag over there <<< "Tough but Fair"? That is a comment that was written about me by competitors asked for anonymous feedback on judges at a large championship show several years ago. You may hate to see me sitting at C, but you will get a fair marking and as constructive as possible comments anyway. Please quote anything hateful. Calling me spiteful doesn't seem to be particularly polite or mature (or even accurate). Oh, and I NEVER backtrack when information is correct.

 

[millitiger]

I saw Charlotte fry mess up a change on glamourdale - it happens to the elite too and anyone can have an off day - I have had a horse explode at x and do a fabulous desplay of airs above the ground … we all have bad days - but that isn’t what was asked tbh

The question was whether to have a go at AdMed with changes in place but not established.

Not sure what in my post that you quoted made you think I was talking about established horses making mistakes or experienced people having a bad day?
I literally said half of us are in the wing it group and would have a crack- I don't consider Charlotte Fry making a mistake is because she might not quite be ready for the level and is having a crack because it's fun and what is the harm