Advice needed please - awful situation - strangles

jofwigby

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 May 2012
Messages
105
Visit site
I feel terrible for you - and the mare and your pony. You sound very capable and caring and I'm sure you will do the right thing (whatever that may turn out to be).

I am peed off on your behalf that whichever charity it was had little empathy. Not so much financially support - but you'd like to think they'd be at the end of the phone.
 

antigone

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2015
Messages
191
Location
East Yorkshire
Visit site
Firstly, i am so sorry about the situation you are in,

From what I have understood , to summarise, you have a very much loved 17 year old ridden cob who has developed strangles following exposure from a recently acquired rescue companion mare who is a carrier.
Your cob already has copd and arthritis in hocks/si joints.
He currently has a temporary tracheostomy due to extremely swollen lymph nodes affecting his ability to breathe but this cannot stay in much longer and if the swelling does not decrease/abcesses burst, his would require an irreversible permanent tracheostomy and may always be a strangles carrier. He is already on danilon.
To compound matters, the companion mare (uninsured) who has already had recent surgery is quite unwell with strangles and may require put to sleep imminently leaving you with a gelding "who has never been good on his own" and the difficulty of getting a new companion if the gelding does turn out to be a carrier resistant to treatment.
Currently, your gelding does not seem distressed by the temporary tracheostomy and is living out and appears well altho is on danilon.


I hope i have got the above correct ^^^ Just trying to think of options.

Regarding the mare, she sounds very unwell at the moment and has already had surgery. It does sound like the kindest thing to do if the only option is more surgery is to pts if she is suffering and further surgery is unlikely to help her. This will however, will leave your gelding alone but you have to do what is best for her not your gelding if she is suffering.

In terms of your gelding, all round best case scenario, although it sounds unlikely, would be that your geldings swelling would go down before permanent tracheostomy is required and could have treatment to eliminate him being a carrier.

Can your vet advise you how long roughly you have got until you have to make a decision about a permanent tracheostomy, ie days? weeks?
Has your vet said he will always be a carrier? Why can he not have treatment to eradicate?

So you have option of permanent tracheostomy but horse is alone for rest of his life or depending what vet says about him being a carrier, a horse with permanent tracheostomy and horse has a companion. (altho he may have to be alone for unknown number of weeks whilst strangles is eradicated)

Having a permanent tracheostomy will mean he is more at risk of respiratory infections and he already has a respiratory disorder - copd.
There is also a chance the tracheostomy could become dislodged/blocked while the horse is in the field and if the swelling in his lymph nodes is still present it would mean that he would not be able to breath and may suffocate.

Doing a quick google search, it seems there are horses out there who are leading long lives with permanent tracheostomies so it can be done.

If it was me, i would not have a horse or any animal with a permanent tracheostomy and I would not have any horse alone, however he is not my boy and it must be heartbreaking. I do not envy your decision, you obviously love your horses very much.

Thank you and yes you have got the gist of it perfectly. We have about a month before we have to decide about his trachy. I think I have decided he could not live alone. He would have sheep and goats but they don't really do it for him. This is a horse that cannot be the first one turned out into an empty field or the last one brought in. What on earth was I thinking? Also the whole course of this miserable drama has been filled with complications and disasters and I cannot believe the operation would be a smooth and trouble free process.

The pony is on antibiotics and I have to give those a chance to help her. She ate her breakfast this morning, albeit slowly, which is good as all her meds are in it. She is no longer just standing in the field shelter. Thank you for taking the time to think through all this.
 

antigone

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2015
Messages
191
Location
East Yorkshire
Visit site
I'm amazed the charity didn't pick up guttural pouch empyema - a well known sequela to strangles. To have chondroids long term is inadvisable as they will eventually (as in guttural pouch mycosis) rot the carotid artery, which passes adjacent to the g.p.

The pony in my avatar had chondroids/empyema but somehow cleared the g.p. herself. The vet at Leahurst was pretty amazed as the x-rays showed a comprehensively stuffed g.p., although not a chronic case as we were on it immediately. You can't not know as the breathing is affected and a foul discharge and cough will also be present. We were given a poor to hopeless prognosis but, after scoping and flushing, the vet felt confident there would be no recurrence and he was correct.

I'd be going back to the charity as in our case also, our other horses were affected to varying degrees and this was our pony who was borrowed and infected. I was NOT happy as we got left with the bills. Another pony loaned by this family also contracted strangles and from what I can gather also secondary infection which did actually result in her bleeding fatally out through her nose. Awful.

I would press the vets, having been given very much a worst case scenario and escaping unscathed.

Thank you for that. The pony did have some symptoms - she had an occasional barking cough. I didn't realise the significance and obviously neither did the vets. She was seen by two vets from two practices after her little episode of illness which occurred after the dentist saw her. She had a small amount of clear, yellow nasal discharge, bad breath and a bit more of a cough. If I had known then what I know now I could have separated them but I cannot think about that or I will send myself nuts. The vets did the operation to open the gutteral pouch because they thought there was too much material to clear with flushing. Seems maybe that was the wrong move too.

Re: the bleeding out - that is also a concern for me with him. He had a minor bleed when he was scoped (didn't look that minor to me but a little blood does go a long way)- the swelling is clearly quite vascular. Need to discuss this with the vet.

Thank you for that bit of positivity though, I am glad your pony is ok
 

antigone

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2015
Messages
191
Location
East Yorkshire
Visit site
So, these are my thoughts so far:

My gelding cannot live alone and I do not now think it is fair to try it. Because of this his only chance is if the pony does ok. If she has to be pts then I will let him go with her.

If she is ok I will keep his temporary trachy going as long as possible but if, when the tube can no longer be re-inserted, he still cannot manage without it I will have him pts. We have about a month until we need to decide this. If the pony is still full of strangles, even if she seems better, I will have her pts with him. If by some miracle she seems ok I will have her scoped and washed out and if she is clean I will get her another little friend.

I think this is fair and kind to both of them though it will just about finish me off.

I have taken legal advice and I am going to make a formal complaint to the charity with the aim of preventing this happening to anyone else.

Thank you all for your input and kind words. You have all been so supportive and helpful
 

Finlib

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 October 2008
Messages
1,009
Visit site
well done you for being the owner/carer every horse deserves.I am horrified the pony wasn't checked by the rescue perhaps it has warned us all to be cautious when taking on a rescue even from atop charity. hope things work out for you. I am sure you feel a little better having made yourself a plan.
 

Luci07

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2009
Messages
9,382
Location
Dorking
Visit site
Nothing helpful to add but I didn't want to read and ignore. Horrible position to be placed in and I keep my fingers crossed for a positive outcome for you.
 

ozpoz

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2010
Messages
2,662
Visit site
I'm glad you have a plan now - it is easier with a plan.

I do think the charity concerned should take some responsibility here, for goodwill ( which they clearly depend on) if nothing else. I'd approach them again - point them in the direction of this thread if they want to gauge public feeling.
 

dizzyneddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 September 2013
Messages
374
Location
Sheffield
Visit site
I really feel for you op but glad you have a plan & l've experience first hand with strangles & it's not nice. My mare came down with it in 2003 when she was at a riding school/livery yard she had a very mild case & three vets believed she caught it from a carrier as no other horse contracted it. l had her pouches flushed in case she was a carrier & since then l've been on two yards & had no problems
I'm very surprised that the charity hasn't been supportive with you as it appears that it's through their pony that you took in that has resulted in your gelding becoming ill. l think you have done wonderful with your horses & you've their welfare at heart you sound as if you care more for the rescue pony than the charity does. l hope whatever the coming months bring that everything works out for you in 2016 as l think you've been through the mill in 2015. Good luck
 

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
24,952
Location
Devon
Visit site
Good luck. Al lcharities should test before rehoming. If all carriers were PTs, if treatment were deemed too expensive, there would still hardly be a shortage of healthy companion ponies.
 

TeamChaser

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2011
Messages
533
Visit site
Must admit, pretty stunned that charities don't routinely screen for this type of thing before offering animals for re homing. Perhaps I'm naive though

OP - so sorry you've found yourself in such a horrid situation, my heart goes out to you. No additional advice but will be hoping for some sort of positive outcome x
 

Gloi

Too little time, too much to read.
Joined
8 May 2012
Messages
11,227
Location
Lancashire
Visit site
I really feel for you here. It's a bit of an eye opener and a real warning for anyone taking on a rescue pony to be very careful.
 

AdorableAlice

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 October 2011
Messages
13,000
Visit site
Must admit, pretty stunned that charities don't routinely screen for this type of thing before offering animals for re homing. Perhaps I'm naive though

OP - so sorry you've found yourself in such a horrid situation, my heart goes out to you. No additional advice but will be hoping for some sort of positive outcome x

My thoughts too. When you consider the dross the charities deal with it is inevitable there will be plenty of disease present. The charity has been grossly negligent in my view. My heart goes out to the OP, an act of kindness has devastated the life of her and the cob. How many more horse charities are off loading diseased 'rescue' ponies.
 

Echo Bravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 August 2009
Messages
6,753
Location
bedfordshire
Visit site
Thoughts with you OP but at least you have thought things through and a lot can happen in a month for good or bad hopefully for the good. And if it's the bad you know what is best for both animals. And I agree with others the charity should be helping you with the bills for the mare as it is still legally theirs.
 

Caol Ila

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 January 2012
Messages
7,518
Location
Glasgow
Visit site
So sorry to read all this. You are a wonderful, caring owner. Given the charity's blase response and their dismissal of the whole mess as "unfortunate," I would be mad as hell and I would be naming and shaming in the press. If I didn't know any good journalists (or wasn't in training to be one), I would be finding one and hoping that some bad publicity encourages horse rescue charities to test animals for strangles before sending them on to new homes. Poor horses. And poor you.
 

Goldenstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
46,020
Visit site
I would be as mad as fire as well.
I have always planned to foster some recuse when we have fewer horses this has seriously put me off the idea .
The attitude of the charity is unbelievable OP have you considered contacting the chief executive of the charity directly and telling your story .
Also although I shudder to say it it's the sort of story the Daily Mail loves .
 

dibbin

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 March 2010
Messages
3,701
Location
Ayrshire
Visit site
Antigone, this is such a horrible situation for you. You're clearly a very caring and capable owner who is determined to do the best for her animals. The charity's response is extremely disappointing.

We were on a yard a few years ago that had a fairly bad outbreak, since then we have always had our own new horses blood tested at vetting and it's mandatory for new ones coming onto the yard - but that's obviously with the benefit of hindsight, before our own experience of strangles it would never have crossed our minds to test for it.

Thinking of you.
 

Tiddlypom

Carries on creakily
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
22,235
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Visit site
OP, I'm really sorry for you, what a bleddy awful situation. The charity (whichever one it is) needs a kick up the bum for the way it has handled it.

Whilst lessons must be learnt from this very unfortunate case, I do hope that people are not completely put off the idea of taking on a charity rescue equine. IMHO acquiring a companion pony from a low end market would carry more risks, in fact a well meaning friend who bought two ponies from Beeston this year had her whole yard down with a respiratory infection that they carried in with them.

I am on my second foster pony from the RSPCA (no idea if this is the charity you got the pony from, or not). They don't seem to do a routine strangles blood test before putting horses up for foster/adoption (at least they didn't for my two), but they do give them a full health check by a vet. I deal with RSPCA Gonsal Farm, in Shropshire, and I've been very impressed with them.

All incoming equines, whether straight from rescue or coming back from foster homes or other 'safe' environments, are put into isolation for 3 (I think) weeks before going onto the main yard. They are worm counted and treated, feet trimmed, teeth rasped and they are jabbed for tetanus (but not flu). The vet practice that they use is one that is often recommended here on HHO.

It is a perfectly fair question to ask, though, whether a strangles blood test should be done routinely by the big rescue charities before allowing equines out for adoption or foster.
 

antigone

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2015
Messages
191
Location
East Yorkshire
Visit site
Thank you all for your support. I think I will be very angry when this is all over but I don't have the energy for it right now. The last thing I would want is to stop healthy horses and ponies from being rehomed I just don't want anyone else to go through this. I suppose I have been doubly unlucky - pony gave my horse strangles and then it became complicated strangles.
 

MiniMilton

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 March 2013
Messages
980
Location
Ireland
Visit site
I'm so sorry this terrible situation has happened to you. I have fostered many ponies in the past and this is a real eye opener to what could have happened. As for your lovely cob, I would get a second and third vet opinion on this. Best of luck x
 

windseywoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2010
Messages
317
Visit site
Antigone, I feel very sorry for you and your situation, you've tried to help out a horse in need and its back fired horribly. Sorry if I've missed this but I presume that you've tried to hot poultice your boy to encourage the abscess to burst. When my boy came down with it he was not right for a couple of weeks, but no sign of nasal discharge or swelling, so when the vets came they gave him a course of antibiotics. He then seemingly got better and then the discharge and the swelling started. He had two strangle tests which came back negative, but then one day I decided to poultice it to see if anything came out as for some reason it seemed to develop in one side. As soon as I put the hot towel on to the area he developed multiple small holes which the puss was able to drain from. I had to poultice the area for weeks and the amount of stuff that came out was horrifying, he finally got better but still has enlarged pouches and I'm now not sure whether he could be a carrier.
I think he got it when we bought our new horse, so whether she was a carrier, but the other two horses on our yard didn't show any symptoms and its not come back.
Hope your horrible situation has a happy ending, but I don't know what I'd do in your situation. Though as others have said the charity should be doing more.
 

antigone

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2015
Messages
191
Location
East Yorkshire
Visit site
Thank you all for all your kind words. The pony developed pneumonia and was pts yesterday. Because he could not live alone my lovely boy was pts also. I am in pieces.
 

LadyGascoyne

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2013
Messages
6,767
Location
Oxfordshire
Visit site
Antigone, I am so so sorry. What has happened to you is nothing short of cruel. You sound like such a caring, dedicated owner who really tried your heart out for your horses. I hope that you can take some comfort in knowing that you have done your best by both of them.

I hope there is someone you can be with.
 
Top