AES - what's happening?

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Flyingbuck

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Does anyone know what is happening with the AES? I have heard reports of there being 2 studbooks going by this name, but only one is a member of WBFSH - but for how long will it be a member?

A bit disconcerting for those who have stallions graded with AES and also those who may have wished to use a stallion graded with the studbook.
 
I have a part bred CB registered with AES in France and have been told, this filly does not qualify for many competitions in France open to breeders. I have written to Henk Mindermann but not had a reply to date.
 
I'd wait till the ugly man that is fanning the flames goes quiet and we get an official press release. Gossip can be dangerous and I believe this to be gossip, not denying there are changes afoot in house, there clearly is. But the ugly little man should spend more time photoshopping some crowds into his pictures and less time slandering the AES!!
 
shirleyno2 said:
I'd wait till the ugly man that is fanning the flames goes quiet and we get an official press release. Gossip can be dangerous and I believe this to be gossip, not denying there are changes afoot in house, there clearly is. But the ugly little man should spend more time photoshopping some crowds into his pictures and less time slandering the AES!!
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I hope the changes afoot will fly the flag for British breeding in France. Plenty of EU horses imported into the UK.
 
It does seem, as Shirley says, that there's currently a mass of rumours flying around and no enlightenment at the moment about what's happening - as soon as things move into the legal system that tends to happen. Let's hope that we get some clarity on all of this asap. And who on earth is this nasty little man? You are obviously in the know Janet - is this one of the rival Dutch contingent? (I rejected my first suspicion as very definitely not falling into the "little" description!)
 
I too am wondering who you are all talking about. I know a lot of ugly men many of whom are like cocks on dung heaps.

I hope that the court case gets sorted out quickly as there will be this years coverings to finalise and foals to register.
 
As far as I am aware, it is business as usual in the AES office, so no need to panic or listen to the usual rumour monger. I will wait until the official press release comes out and take the facts from there.
 
I agree that mare owners should be able to access all pertinent information and that all the information needs to be out there asap to allow informed decisions to be made re this year's coverings etc - the google translation of the following is not all that helpful either...

http://www.angloeuropeanstudbook.info/news.html#NEWS FLASH!

Might just be easier/safer to use stallions from other studbooks until this is finally sorted out.
 
Has anyone thought to contact the DEFRA and ask them who they recognise?

I think this fact (recognition) will determine in which basket you should place your eggs (sorry leftover Easter feeling).

According to the Dutch press releases that party are 'owners' of the Anglo European Studbook ... although I do ask myself how one person can 'own' an international Studbook???
And that the British Chamber of Commerce also recognises their claim to the 'name' and 'company'.

It is all VERY VERY VERY confusing with both the kettle and the pot calling each other black.
 
Flyingbuck said:
Might just be easier/safer to use stallions from other studbooks until this is finally sorted out.
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Ridiculous comment IMO. Graded stallions I'm sure will be fine.
Please mare owners ignore any scaremongering by people with stallions with other studbooks!!

Most approved stallions can be dual registered anyway, registering with multiple studbooks is very straightforward, it's only throwing money at them!! Mine used to be dual registered but it seemed a waste of money!!
 
cruiseline said:
Flyingbuck can I please ask what gives you the right to advise mare owners on this forum not to use an AES graded stallion, when you have absolutely no grounds on which to substantiate your comment.
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I am advising no one! I merely asked for information and have stated what I may do. Please try to read things properly if you are posting on this thread.
 
shirleyno2 said:
Ridiculous comment IMO. Graded stallions I'm sure will be fine.
Please mare owners ignore any scaremongering by people with stallions with other studbooks!!

Most approved stallions can be dual registered anyway, registering with multiple studbooks is very straightforward, it's only throwing money at them!! Mine used to be dual registered but it seemed a waste of money!!
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Not that ridiculous - what graded stallions are you commenting on? The public or privately graded or both?

IMO, if it is too difficult to find information from a studbook who do not answer emails etc and so that I am then obliged to contact DEFRA, Chamber of Commerce etc as has been suggested on here, then I'm afraid I will look elsewhere - I do not have the time...simple.
 
Flyingbuck said:
Not that ridiculous - what graded stallions are you commenting on? The public or privately graded or both?

Seems you have an agenda regards the above comment?? dont see the relevance to it and has nothing to do with current issues, have friends in low places maybe who part own stallions from other studbooks??
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koeffee said:
Flyingbuck said:
Not that ridiculous - what graded stallions are you commenting on? The public or privately graded or both?

Seems you have an agenda regards the above comment?? dont see the relevance to it and has nothing to do with current issues, have friends in low places maybe who part own stallions from other studbooks??
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I wondered how long it would be...dearie me. But not surprised!

My agenda is to access, collate and then use all the information that I consider relevant to make informed decisions and thereby choose the best stallions that I can afford who best compliment my mares, nothing more or less; moreover, I would assume that I am not the only mare owner doing this.

My comment was in response to a previous contributor who made a statement - I merely asked for clarification of their statement.
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DEFRA and the WBFSH recognise the AES that is registered here in the UK and so from that standing it is the correct book.

I think people need to stop panicking and wait for a public announcement which will I am sure come. If people hadn't dragged this up in order to fuel their own agendas then this whole thing would have been handled privately and no one would have felt any effects or known differently till management changes are announced. Sadly instead there is this scaremongering going on. People need to just take a deep breath and hold fire till something is stated.
 
Regards the gradings, public or private shouldn't matter. Both forms of gradings have been around for YEARS with pretty much all stud books and many have been graded in both ways. There is nothing unseemly about either method as people are being led to believe. I can name several big name stallions who were graded using both methods.
 
Edit won't work so sorry for a 3rd comment....

Wanted to ad that if things go South and the foreign party is found to be truthful then yes no doubt the proverbial S$%&^ will hit the fan and there will be a lot of angry stallion and mare owners and questions to be answered. But till there is an answer one way or another I just think we need to be patient for now.
 
eventrider23 said:
Edit won't work so sorry for a 3rd comment....

Wanted to ad that if things go South and the foreign party is found to be truthful then yes no doubt the proverbial S$%&^ will hit the fan and there will be a lot of angry stallion and mare owners and questions to be answered. But till there is an answer one way or another I just think we need to be patient for now.
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Thanks for the contribution(s) - these were just the very real worries that I had from the recent apparent anomalies within the AES studbook which have been circulating on-line - with no feedback from the studbook itself, it's more than very confusing as has been stated here earlier by others.

Unfortunately, re your point about the need to be patient, mare cycles will not wait and speaking only for myself, coverings for this season may well have to be from stallions graded elsewhere - I will, obviously, keep my eyes and ears open for any new information that may become available before I purchase semen.
 
Flyingbuck said:
Thanks for the contribution(s) - these were just the very real worries that I had from the recent apparent anomalies within the AES studbook which have been circulating on-line - with no feedback from the studbook itself, it's more than very confusing as has been stated here earlier by others.

Unfortunately, re your point about the need to be patient, mare cycles will not wait and speaking only for myself, coverings for this season may well have to be from stallions graded elsewhere - I will, obviously, keep my eyes and ears open for any new information that may become available before I purchase semen.
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I have gone onto your website Flyingbuck and you have never used AES stallions, in fact all your stallions seem to be foreign, so why do you seem so bothered about what the AES are doing, unless of course you have ulterior motives and are just out to cause trouble for other breeders.

I also remember you being part of the Scottish Sports Horse (Chairman I believe), and they too have done private gradings in the past.
 
nomis said:
I have gone onto your website Flyingbuck and you have never used AES stallions, in fact all your stallions seem to be foreign, so why do you seem so bothered about what the AES are doing, unless of course you have ulterior motives and are just out to cause trouble for other breeders.

I also remember you being part of the Scottish Sports Horse (Chairman I believe), and they too have done private gradings in the past.
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Not quite sure how you have managed that - only one year's worth of stallions used previously currently appear on my website!

Why are you interested in why I am bothered? What is your agenda? I have already stated mine.

I am bothered as there may be stallions currently graded who I may wish to use - or should I just reject all stallions currently graded with the AES without further consideration? Is that really good advice to give to a mare owner? No wonder British breeding can get itself in a pickle at times!

I am asking information for myself as already stated - what other mare owners wish to do is their affair.

Re the Scottish Sport Horse - I am unaware of any 'over the phone' gradings but I stand to be corrected if you have any knowledge to the contrary, or are you merely mud-slinging? (I wish, if that is the case, that you would do it elsewhere than on this thread). All public/private gradings conducted by the SSH, to the best of my knowledge and belief, were conducted by suitably qualified representatives from foreign studbooks.
 
Flyingbuck, just to ensure that everyone sticks to known facts, which seems really important in this atmosphere of rumour and counter-rumour - in this case the accusation of "over the phone" gradings. The accusation that I came across recently made by an extremely vociferous individual about a particular stallion was absolutely untrue. When I checked with the stallion owner they confirmed that a private grading was carried out at the end of a show as the timing was convenient for both the owner and AES personnel. So if this crucial fact was misrepresented, you have to wonder what else has been? I think that we all need to be really wary as a result, and particularly when supposed *facts* are proved to be anything but - and yet the publicising of the wrong information can severely damage businesses and the reputation of stallions.

The best advice for everyone at the moment is to hold fire, and as Alec suggests in an earlier post, if someone is stating something as a *fact* then don't take it on trust. Whoever they are. Check it out!
 
Flyingbuck said:
Not quite sure how you have managed that - only one year's worth of stallions used previously currently appear on my website!

Why are you interested in why I am bothered? What is your agenda? I have already stated mine.

I am bothered as there may be stallions currently graded who I may wish to use - or should I just reject all stallions currently graded with the AES without further consideration? Is that really good advice to give to a mare owner? No wonder British breeding can get itself in a pickle at times!

I am asking information for myself as already stated - what other mare owners wish to do is their affair.

Re the Scottish Sport Horse - I am unaware of any 'over the phone' gradings but I stand to be corrected if you have any knowledge to the contrary, or are you merely mud-slinging? (I wish, if that is the case, that you would do it elsewhere than on this thread). All public/private gradings conducted by the SSH, to the best of my knowledge and belief, were conducted by suitably qualified representatives from foreign studbooks.
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Agenda? Flyingbuck if you have used any previous AES stallions which have you used? Maybe to offset the balance of argument you would be willing to share this? It is no consequence to me, but because of your vocal comments I thought it best to see what stallions you have used previously before posting, so I had facts. From your website and Facebook page it is easy to deduce that its mostly stallions from Germany you have used.

Might just be easier/safer to use stallions from other studbooks until this is finally sorted out.
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The above is your words not mine, so you have already made the decision to reject stallions with the AES? So what you have then said subsequently is really nonsense. i.e.

or should I just reject all stallions currently graded with the AES without further consideration? Is that really good advice to give to a mare owner?
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I am unaware of any 'over the phone' gradings but I stand to be corrected if you have any knowledge to the contrary, or are you merely mud-slinging?
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Put your glasses on and re-read what I said. Where did I mention "over the phone gradings"?

Regarding "over the phone gradings" I am sure we would ALL be very interested for you to substantiate with evidence which stallions have had this done, since you seem to apparently know everything?
 
no_no_nanette said:
Flyingbuck, just to ensure that everyone sticks to known facts, which seems really important in this atmosphere of rumour and counter-rumour - in this case the accusation of "over the phone" gradings. The accusation that I came across recently made by an extremely vociferous individual about a particular stallion was absolutely untrue. When I checked with the stallion owner they confirmed that a private grading was carried out at the end of a show as the timing was convenient for both the owner and AES personnel. So if this crucial fact was misrepresented, you have to wonder what else has been? I think that we all need to be really wary as a result, and particularly when supposed *facts* are proved to be anything but - and yet the publicising of the wrong information can severely damage businesses and the reputation of stallions.

The best advice for everyone at the moment is to hold fire, and as Alec suggests in an earlier post, if someone is stating something as a *fact* then don't take it on trust. Whoever they are. Check it out!
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As a mare owner, what is important to me is that I can rely on the method of grading (whether private or public) of any studbook which is a member of the WBFSH to have been conducted in an appropriate fashion.

If businesses and stallion reputations are indeed being compromised, then it is up to the owners of those businesses and stallions to seek redress through the usual channels as they see fit.

Once again, for those mare owners who, for varied reasons, like to cover early in the season as I do, holding fire and waiting may not be an option.

I totally agree with checking all the information provided - it is just that information has not always been forthcoming (don't take my word for it, others have had no reply to emails as evidenced earlier in this thread).
 
Flyingbuck said:
others have had no reply to emails as evidenced earlier in this thread).
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What about phoning??? If people need answers then surely phoning would be an option. I know two people who had concerns and so rang the AES yesterday....both got answered straight away and had answers to their questions. One person is a mare owner and one person owns a stallion.
 
eventrider23 said:
What about phoning??? If people need answers then surely phoning would be an option. I know two people who had concerns and so rang the AES yesterday....both got answered straight away and had answers to their questions. One person is a mare owner and one person owns a stallion.
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I would agree that would appear an easy solution - but I would far rather have the response in writing just in case your prediction comes true.
 
Flyingbuck said:
Your words! Now you want to change your statement, lol!

Ignored!
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Please humour me, what statement have I changed? I merely said that going on your website and Facebook page that you have never used a graded AES stallion. If I am wrong then I cannot see why you do not state which AES stallions you have used previously?

As stated previously what EVIDENCE have you got to substantiate your claims of "over the phone gradings", you have still not answered this question? By posting this claim you are indeed libelling the Studbook in question (on a public forum) if you have no evidence to support this.


As a mare owner, what is important to me is that I can rely on the method of grading (whether private or public) of any studbook which is a member of the WBFSH to have been conducted in an appropriate fashion.

If businesses and stallion reputations are indeed being compromised, then it is up to the owners of those businesses and stallions to seek redress through the usual channels as they see fit.
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IMHO the people who are compromising the reputations of businesses and stallions are the likes of yourself, who has clearly started this post with an intent of doing just that.

Instead of posting why do you not phone the AES as suggested above, who I am sure will give you a statement.

For everyones information the Approved AES Studbook with the WBFSH is Henk Mindermans one - http://www.wbfsh.org/files/Members_November_22nd_2012.pdf
 
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