AIBU - lead rein size

[ycbm]

Shetlands are some of the easiest, funniest ponies to deal with if you respect them and don't treat them like pets. That's when things go wrong.

The only really bad shetland we have had here was one that was bought in at 11yo. He had no manners, no respect for humans or fences and savaged other ponies and horses. He quickly got shipped back out again! The rest have been an utter delight 99% of the time.

It's all how they are brought up and treated as to what makes them.

I've had 3. I've never had a moments more trouble with them than with any other young horse.

The owner was obviously right there watching her for any trouble she might get in

The owner might have thought to work out why her pony was upset and remove her from the situation she was getting upset about, or at the very least tie her up safely. That pony is very unhappy, she's not doing a funny "dance" to amuse people.
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[Aperchristmas]

Just thinking about this, there are usually some adults on "big" horses at these lead events aren't there? E.g. the huntsman, some staff, some parents accompanying. Would we be concerned by one of those riding a 17hh hunter (as is quite likely)?

 

[ycbm]

Just thinking about this, there are usually some adults on "big" horses at these lead events aren't there? E.g. the huntsman, some staff, some parents accompanying. Would we be concerned by one of those riding a 17hh hunter (as is quite likely)?

I think there's a big difference between riding an experienced hunter and leading one. And yes I would be concerned at anyone on a big horse going within kicking or barging distance of the lead ones unless they were a parent of the child, because of the incident described above which proves how dangerous it can be.
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[conniegirl]

Just thinking about this, there are usually some adults on "big" horses at these lead events aren't there? E.g. the huntsman, some staff, some parents accompanying. Would we be concerned by one of those riding a 17hh hunter (as is quite likely)?

In my experience all parents will be on foot and at least our local huntsman borrows his daughters 14hh welshie for the lr meet

 

[Rowreach]

It isn't the one event, it's all the comments on here saying they wouldn't want a heavy horse in the neighbourhood.

So, like the OP, you've decided to misread and misinterpret what people have said.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I don't know about her being a witch, but she's upset and if she'd added a bit of a rear to her turn as many do, she would have strangled herself.
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She wouldnt have her owner was right next to me !!!!

 

[Rowreach]

Just thinking about this, there are usually some adults on "big" horses at these lead events aren't there? E.g. the huntsman, some staff, some parents accompanying. Would we be concerned by one of those riding a 17hh hunter (as is quite likely)?

Huntsman and staff won't be anywhere near the lead rein ponies and any adults mounted will be carefully selected "nannies" on sensible pony-proof horses. And that's only if it's a children's meet. If it's purely a lead rein day then I doubt there'd be any adults in horses, apart from staff.

 

[Aperchristmas]

I think there's a big difference between riding an experienced hunter and leading one. And yes I would be concerned at anyone on a big horse going within kicking or barging distance of the lead ones unless they were a parent of the child, because of the incident described above which proves how dangerous it can be.
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In my experience all parents will be on foot and at least our local huntsman borrows his daughters 14hh welshie for the lr meet

Fair enough, I'm just trying to properly think the situation through. I do still understand that hunt's position mainly because it's clearly impossible for a handler to fully control a horse that big if something goes wrong.

 

[GinaGeo]

I used to organise specific children and pony related activities.

There had previously been an incident with a horse kicking out at a smaller pony and catching the little rider.

When I took over, we reviewed the risk assessments and made the decision that only ponies could partake. And then we were careful to split again by size if possible, or at least maintain a much larger distance between the real littlies and the larger ponies.

If someone had enquired about bringing a 17hh Clydesdale the answer would have been no. The same as if they wanted to bring a 15.2hh TB. Or a 16hh warmblood.

It isn’t a personal slight against heavy horses. Just someone who is trying their best to keep everyone safe.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

So, like the OP, you've decided to instead and misinterpret what people have said.

Nope, I read posts that said if they saw a HH at a meeting they'd turn and drive away.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Nope, I read posts that said if they saw a HH at a meeting they'd turn and drive away.

Am I missing something? Where was that said on this thread?

 

[stangs]

Am I missing something? Where was that said on this thread?

Post 17. Rowreach said that they would not attend a lead rein meet if there was a heavy horse present. Absolutely nothing has been said, contrary to what O&L thinks, that people don't want heavy horses in the general neighbourhood.

 

[conniegirl]

Post 17. Rowreach said that they would not attend a lead rein meet if there was a heavy horse present. Absolutely nothing has been said, contrary to what O&L thinks, that people don't want heavy horses in the general neighbourhood.

I think Rowreach would also turn round and drive away is a 17hh hunter was there too. I certainly would. The whole point of a LR meet is to get your tinys out in a safe controlled environment with no big horses present that could either accidentally take out a small child and pony or intimidate a child

 

[Rowreach]

Nope, I read posts that said if they saw a HH at a meeting they'd turn and drive away.

If I turned up to a lead rein meet with a child on a pony, and saw a Clydesdale there, I'd turn straight back round and go home again. I imagine I'm not the only one who would be concerned, and I wouldn't hang around to find out how well behaved it was and how capable a handler you were.

That was my comment, and as you can see from the highlighted bit I was specifically referring to a lead rein meet. Nowhere have I ever suggested that I don't want heavy horses "in the neighbourhood" or that heavy breeds should die out.

Catch yourself on.

 

[conniegirl]

Its not just hunts that keep big horses separate. Great yorkshire show have also done the risk assessment and have given the leadrein and first ridden ponies their own separate warm up area.
They would have only been warming up with bigger ponies yet it was still deemed to dangerous and they opened up one of the inhand rings as a warm up for the LR and FR ponies instead.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Its not just hunts that keep big horses separate. Great yorkshire show have also done the risk assessment and have given the leadrein and first ridden ponies their own separate warm up area.
They would have only been warming up with bigger ponies yet it was still deemed to dangerous and they opened up one of the inhand rings as a warm up for the LR and FR ponies instead.

That's probably more of a cover for watching who warms up what and how so there aren't any adults on them which I actually do not disagree with at all.

 

[conniegirl]

That's probably more of a cover for watching who warms up what and how so there aren't any adults on them which I actually do not disagree with at all.

it would be much easier for them to watch 1 ring with all the ponies in it than have to watch 2. They watch the warm ups of the ponies for weight of rider as well even when the class is open to adults (like the M&M classes)

 

[Love]

Agree with others. OP I know you said that your horse is well trained etc etc but the hunt don't know that and they have a large number of people and young children to keep safe. (and over the years the hunt have likely encountered numerous people wrongly over-estimating their ability/horses temperament - absolutely not saying this is you, but with respect I assume they don't know you from Adam and have to assume the worst). If something kicked off and I was handling, I would back myself (plus a small rider) to be able to get (most ) 12hh ponies back under control between us much easier than I would a 17hh clyde. Again, this might not be the case in this exact situation but like I said I assume the Hunt don't know specifics. I also feel some smaller ponies and also smaller riders might feel intimidated with your horse coming up alongside/behind them? which in itself could set something off?

Don't see it as a personal attack by them - they're just playing it safe which I don't think is a bad thing in this instance.

 

[Tarragon]

I turned up at a cub meet decades ago riding my donkey - I have a feeling that that caused more upset than having a large horse at a lead rein event!
I also support the hunt on this. I think it is more the reaction of the other small ponies when up close to such a large horse that they are worried about, not whether or not your horse would misbehave.

 

[Love]

I turned up at a cub meet decades ago riding my donkey - I have a feeling that that caused more upset than having a large horse at a lead rein event!

It's strange isn't it! I once went to a show with my old pony and there was a donkey class that we had to pass - his meltdown at the sight of them was so catastrophic I couldn't even get him in the ring

 

[maya2008]

My children have never been to pony club because until recently, they had the choice between a 10.3hh Shetland that liked to run off to the gate at great speed at random moments, or a 13.3hh sports pony who was amazing but just too big compared with the size of the other ponies who would be there. It’s about being sensible. My son could compete the 13.3hh at 70cm if he wanted, but I would not have put him in a group setting with little ponies and less confident riders because if something went wrong it would not be good for the smaller ones.

 

[Nasicus]

It would be a bit like turning up at a small breed puppy meet up with a great dane puppy. It could be the best behaved puppy in the world, but it'll still put the owners of the smaller, much more fragile puppies, off. Far too easy to accidentally run into, run over, and otherwise injure the small pups.
Just replace puppies with tiny kids on tiny ponies.

 

[Winters100]

I have to admit, I can understand the OPs disappointment.

I thought this sort of thinking was on the way out due to the work by H&H, RBST, HOYs, BD etc to really showcase heavies over the past few years.

If this is still the thinking that resonates across the equine community then there really is little hope to save these rare breeds.

Do they showcase them in the ring mingling with the lead rein ponies? Of course not. They use common sense and showcase them in appropriate company.

Absolutely no one here has said that they want these breeds to die out, or that they should not be allowed to attend suitable events alongside other large horses. This however is an event for small ponies, so the horse does not fit the criteria, just the same as any other large horse. My schoolmistress is regularly ridden by a child, but at around 15.2hh I would assume that she too would not fit the criteria, and it would be most unreasonable for me to complain about it, or to say that because of this no one wanted her breed in the neighbourhood.

I have not read any comment saying that OP's child should not ride the horse and enjoy it in other situations. If the organisers allow 1 big horse then going forward they will probably have others want to join. No doubt every owner would say that their horse is 'exceptionally well trained', but what if one of these exceptionally well trained horses is not as well trained as the owner imagines, or just reacts badly on the day? It is easy to see that there could be a serious accident, and also easy to see that the organisers would be asked some very tough questions as to why they allowed the situation to occur. They would be left to explain why, knowing of the dangers, and with a recent example of a tragic accident, they had gone ahead and allowed a large horse to attend, and saying that 'well the owner assured us that the horse was exceptionally well trained' would not be an acceptable explanation. It is simply common sense to say that if a small pony plays up the adult leading it will be more easily able to control the situation than they would in the case of a 17hh horse, and that if a small pony kicked out the risk of serious injury to another child would be lower.

Honestly reading this I wonder why anyone could be bothered to organise such events. On one hand you have the risk assessments to do, and you have liability if you make a mistake, and on the other you have people complaining when you put in place perfectly sensible rules to keep the majority as safe as possible and happy on the day.

 

[stormox]

Totally with the hunt here. You could not possibly handle a 17hh horse and a child if the 2 became separated as often happens out hunting. All riders should ride suitably sized horses that can be easily managed by themselves and/or their leader!

 

[Rowreach]

Honestly reading this I wonder why anyone could be bothered to organise such events. On one hand you have the risk assessments to do, and you have liability if you make a mistake, and on the other you have people complaining when you put in place perfectly sensible rules to keep the majority as safe as possible and happy on the day.

This is exactly what I was thinking as I was stomping round this morning running risk assessments through my head for a big four day sporting event I'm involved in running. Keeping people as safe as possible while involved in a risky sport means that some people are inevitably not going to like the rules we have in place, and tbh if we get too many complaints about sensible precautions taken for their safety, well they won't have an organising team any more.

 

[Katieg123]

You're probably not going to like this point either but from my understanding aren't these lead rein walks for much younger kids? Kind of the 3-7 age group? If your daughter is 10 she might feel a bit out of place? Most 10yo kids would be out riding with the hunt

 

[AmyMay]

You're probably not going to like this point either but from my understanding aren't these lead rein walks for much younger kids? Kind of the 3-7 age group? If your daughter is 10 she might feel a bit out of place? Most 10yo kids would be out riding with the hunt

I disagree.

 

[Gloi]

I can't see why the OP wouldn't sort the child out with a pony of a suitable size for them to get fully involved with pony club and age related classes rather than handicap them with a horse they are unlikely to be able to ride unassisted.

 

[ycbm]

I can't see why the OP wouldn't sort the child out with a pony of a suitable size for them to get fully involved with pony club and age related classes rather than handicap them with a horse they are unlikely to be able to ride unassisted.

She doesn't own her own land and can't afford a horse for the child as well as the one she wants to ride herself?

She's a devotee of heavy horses since before the child was even born, there's nowt wrong with that.
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[conniegirl]

She doesn't own her own land and can't afford a horse for the child as well as the one she wants to ride herself?

She's a devotee of heavy horses since before the child was even born, there's nowt wrong with that.
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Then unfortunately she will have to accept that a great many events will not be open to her child until she is older.

i missed the stallion part earlier too. If it is true that the horse is a stallion then I’m even more surprised it was allowed in a LR showing class. Generally the only pony classes that allow stallions are the m&m’s and then you have to be minimum 12 to ride a small breed and 14 to ride a large breed. I believe the rule is generally 16 for horse stallions.